Colloquialisms and translations question

[angelight313_941]

maria_lavendula_77
I only write subtitles here on Viki so it was an Asian series and I did translated it like @manganese suggest. It was an old woman didn’t trust a young man.

Don’t worry about it too much. I was just letting you know the other meaning of the slang word fudge.

Although, I’m always against any word used from other countries in Asian dramas because we all very well know how strict that culture is, and we should use in a subtitle only words appropriate for the Asian culture. In my honest opinion, slang words from America don’t belong in Asian dramas. I see them a lot now in dramas and it’s a complete turn off for me.

[maria_lavendula_77]

I totally agree with you slang from USA doesn’t really fit in when translating something Asian, but I have realised that it’s fairly common here on Viki. That said it’s interesting before I looked up the word yesterday I didn’t understand what the meaning was, I have heard about “sugar coding” but fudge in my part of the world it’s just candy.

[mirjam_465]

@angelight313_941

slang words from America don’t belong in Asian dramas

Actually, the English teams are not supposed to use any slang. Or at least that’s what I learned during my English-editor training from @worthyromance
Part of the reason for this is that English serves as a template for OL and we try to avoid the kind of confusion @maria_lavendula_77 was experiencing.

[irmar]

@mirjam_465

the English teams are not supposed to use any slang.

True but, as I wrote in my previous comment, many Korean-Americans or Chinese-Americans have learned English not so much from books or reading literature or newspapers but mostly by in a practical, unstructured way, by interacting with other people.
If they are young, an added reason is that most young Americans use slang routinely, so that’s what they hear all around by their peers, and they think they are being “cool” and “integrated” by sounding like everyone else. If they have been watching popular American movies, that’s the language they’ll be hearing from characters as well, and the impression is reinforced.
So they might not even know that this is slang, they think this is “normal” English.

[bozoli]

Natives definitely underestimate their slang usage Takes a really good editor to notice all of them.

[worthyromance]

Subtitling Guide

USE PROPER ENGLISH
Avoid using slang English or shortened forms of words. For example, avoid using ‘LOL’ , ‘ya’ or ‘wanna’.
Avoid subbing any words that contain no meaning such as “Haha” or “Um…’

[angelight313_941]

@maria_lavendula_77

I have realised that it’s fairly common here on Viki

That’s the main reason why I stopped watching dramas/movies here at RVIKI because they allowed all these terrible subtitles in dramas/movies, and like I wrote before is a turn off for me; so I refuse to watch them. Worse yet, no matter how much the viewers (including myself), complain about it, nothing is done to fix it.

[angelight313_941]

@irmar

So they might not even know that this is slang, they think this is “normal” English.

With all respect I don’t agree with this statement. The ones that can’t recognize ‘‘slang words’’ are people/subbers/editors? that are not proficient enough in the English language.

PS. I rarely see any slang words in US dramas/movies. Unless of course the drama/movie is ghetto (that’s how we call them when the drama/movie is full of slangs, vulgar, and cursing language).

[steviepics_788]

I’ll have said it before, I’m sure, but in KDrama subtitling, the use of ‘punk’ is prolific.

I take it to be an Americanism, but you’ll never hear it on US tv, unless you’re watching some very old gangster movie.

[cgwm808]

I know for Korean drama there is an increase in the use of American slang because the dramas are subbed by paid subbers who do not follow any of the rules we use when we volunteers sub K drama to English. Often the slang is misused, perhaps because the subber might never have seen slang they have heard in writing or are not truly familiar with the slang. For example, last week, a character says “they are right now below our chins” when it should have been “they are right now at our throats”. Perhaps the subber uses slang to show fluency in English but when the slang is misued, it has the opposite effect! The slang means it is a vicious fight.

[angelight313_941]

@cgwm808

a character says “they are right now below our chins” when it should have been “they are right now at our throats”. Perhaps the subber uses slang to show fluency in English but when the slang is misued, it has the opposite effect!

My personal experience for many years now that a lot of Spanish subbers may know Chinese/Korean/Japanese, but know very little to no English. So they follow something that has absolutely nothing to do with they ‘‘misuse’’ slangs like you mentioned above. For example, there is no slang in ‘‘they are right now below our chins,’’ but there is a way we Spanish speaking, reading, writing, say this sentence when someone’s height is below our chin (spanish chiva) in my Island we say Cuello (Neck). When I say it in Spanish; I never say ‘‘throat’’ like they do in English, but if the Spanish subber was fluent enough in the English language they know they have to change neck/chin to throat when translating in English.

I must add that a saying and a slang are two totally different things, and “they are right now below our chins” or “they are right now at our throats’’ (although I haven’t seen the drama/movie/reality show), is a complete sentence: not a saying nor a slang. Some people say chin, and in my case we say ‘‘neck’’ and as far as I know in English we mainly use throat. What we MUST always remember as subbers and Editors warn ALL subbers not to use any word considered an ‘’ English slang word’’ in Asian dramas. UNLESS, the writer added that slang word in the role for the character to say (which when it comes to Asian drama I know that’s impossible) unless an American writer was also involved in the writing of the drama/movie/reality show.

I have always explain the domino effect; They know Korean/Chinese/Japanese, but they think the translation in Spanish, and write the subtitle from a translation using their Spanish sentence in ‘‘their’’ head since their English language is limited or none so of course, they use a translator tool to do their English subtitle causing some times (not always) a wrong translation (which is not entirely their fault) because if there are Editors proficient enough in the English Language they will catch the mistake and fix it right away. It can happen in any OL too; if they are not proficient enough in the English Language, and need to be constantly using a translator tool to write their subtitles, mistakes like this are bound to happen.

@steviepics_788
but you’ll never hear it on US tv, unless you’re watching some very old gangster movie.

Thank you so much for adding this here.

[angelight313_941]

When topics get lost among the many other comments here at RViki; we miss the chance to read stuff that might gives us some answers to some questions we may have. As a retired Bilingual Educator due to illness I never stopped myself from learning new things and appreciating those who share the knowledge with us instead of playing the ‘’ I know it all’’ and instead make a fool of myself.

On that note, back in 2023 I wrote from my heart a few suggestions/tips that I felt summarize the importance of knowing a language really well before we claim we know it ‘‘so well’’ and we end up adding poor quality subtitles here at Rviki in dramas/movies/reality shows etc.,

Quote/Unquote: The success of any subbing volunteer work in dramas/movies depends on the knowledge they have in the language and culture that allows them the recognition of their own colloquial expressions used in their culture which helps them find equivalent/similar levels of formality in them.
That is why I always emphasize that when it comes to doing subtitles here at RVIKI in dramas/movies, no one is more experienced or knowledgeable of that culture, than a native speaker of that language, and not people from other countries that can’t learn these things in one or two year College, and more than anything else because they have never lived through them.
One year College, two year College; learning a language or many other language, can never replace living and breathing the culture each human being was born in, and no one should cross that line and disrespect a language they have little to no knowledge at all, and pretend to do any subbing/ translation work in a language they have NO business working on!

To those that have done just that here at RViki; shame on you, and shame on those who allowed you to disrespect a language, a culture, that deserve the same respect; you expect for your language, your culture, just because we all deserve that much respect. RESPECT goes a long way when it comes from both; I respect you, and above all, you respect me, my language, my culture.

[irmar]

I have come across this kind of issue recently.
And, mind you, this subber has an excellent command of English, it’s obviously someone very experienced, who has been living in the US for a long time - probably even born there. So there are almost no grammar and syntax issues, and the following style choices are most certainly deliberate. Just that they don’t match well, they “sound” fake and inappropriate.
For starters, all names and surnames are reversed, in a Western way. Everybody is Mr. and Mrs. This person has probably never watched a drama on Viki, so they did what Western platforms like NF do.

A Japanese executive goes to a farm in the countryside to solve a produce supply problem, and when he has a few drops of liquor, he displays drunk behaviour. The choice was to make him speak like an inner city US citizen.
“Pops! You were so worried 'bout your missus, yet I forced ya to the farms.”

And, to his co-worker:
“You’re a good kid. But ya know what? That don’t mean she’ll see ya as a romantic interest. Too bad for you, kiddo.”
Probably the character is talking colloquially in Japanese as well, in a way that clashes to his usually composed self, so this was a “domestication” choice, to give the same comical impact and get the same reaction from the viewers. Yes, but the fact is that on Viki not all the people reading English subs are American. And even if they are, that language is so specific to a certain part of the American population, that it seems super-weird in a Japanese mouth.

The following screenshot shows a Japanese university professor talking to his PhD student. (And he’s not drunk)

Again, the professor in this scene a bit surprised/distressed so he is probably using a more colloquial Japanese expression, in which case this was a deliberate choice. I’m pretty sure that’s the reason. But to localize it to American slang is not the way to go, in my opinion.
What should be put instead? I don’t know the source language, but I’m sure one could find a more colloquial way without going to the extremes of using American slang.

But the whole drama is peppered with “gonna, wanna” and all those things we specifically mention on Subbing Guidelines NOT to use. And the general tone is like this.

[manganese]

@irmar

Yes, but the fact is that on Viki not all the people reading English subs are American. And even if they are, that language is so specific to a certain part of the American population, that it seems super-weird in a Japanese mouth.

I agree totally. As you know, I’m a monolinguistic speaker of Australian English. In Australia a large part of television viewing consists of shows from the USA. I’ve watched these shows for decades, and I’m well versed in many USA idioms. That said, “yet I forced you to the farms” is new to me and I have no idea what it means. I also have no idea what “You’re getting way too jazzed about this” means.

[irmar]

@manganese

“yet I forced you to the farms” is new to me and I have no idea what it means. I also have no idea what “You’re getting way too jazzed about this” means.

The first is understandable if you know the context. Here it means “I forced you to go back to your farm and harvest strawberries for me, while your wife was in the hospital and you were so worried about her”

The second, I had to look up.

INFORMAL•NORTH AMERICAN
full of excitement or enthusiasm.
“there were a lot of people along the route who were really jazzed up about seeing the Air Force”

So something like “stoked”, “thrilled”, “excited”, “enthusiastic”.
The Cambridge Dictionary also says it’s a US meaning.

[manganese]

Thanks for the explanations, Irmar I appreciate the insight.

[leerla73]

@irmar

But to localize it to American slang is not the way to go, in my opinion.

I so agree, %.

Watching shows with this output, takes away the experiencing of that country. Plus the talent of cast, and crew is robbed in some way. The hard work of production is reduced to mush, that is tasteless.

[angelight313_941]

Quality of RViki’s subtitles are definitely going down the drain. Those subtitles are a lack of respect to the Japanese culture. It’s a shame.

irmar
And, mind you, this subber has an excellent command of English, it’s obviously someone very experienced, who has been living in the US for a long time - probably even born there. So there are almost no grammar and syntax issues, and the following style choices are most certainly deliberate. Just that they don’t match well, they “sound” fake and inappropriate.

In my 60 years of life, I have never heard a real ‘‘American’’ talking/writing like that, and the missus and jazzed is proof of that. This person may not be American.

irmar
And, to his co-worker:
“You’re a good kid. But ya know what? That don’t mean she’ll see ya as a romantic interest. Too bad for you, kiddo.”

This is ‘‘street talk’’ but again the kiddo …

The subber could be from the 70’s era, but on he/she Educational level; must be Intermediary/Middle school.

They are doing the same thing on YT, and instead of writing for example Lu Sheng: they write Mr. Smith or Mr. Parker.

I believe they do this intentionally.

irmar
So something like “stoked”, “thrilled”, “excited”, “enthusiastic”.
The Cambridge Dictionary also says it’s a US meaning.

You seem to be very adamant to put the blame on ‘‘American’’ volunteers for this blunder/mess of subtitles, and I’m asking you very respectfully. What’s the title of the drama/movie? You added is here on Rviki so I will like to see the team involved in that drama or movie.
Japanese dramas/movies in the past and even recently had wonderful subtitles and is a shame if they are going to start messing them up too. That is the reason for my concern, and not whether you blame Americans or not for the bad subtitles. You are entitled to your own opinion.

[angelight313_941]

manganese
As you know, I’m a monolinguistic speaker of Australian English. In Australia a large part of television viewing consists of shows from the USA. I’ve watched these shows for decades, and I’m well versed in many USA idioms. That said, “yet I forced you to the farms” is new to me and I have no idea what it means. I also have no idea what “You’re getting way too jazzed about this” means.

I have always admired your integrity, your sense of righteousness, and that’s something you have the right to be proud of because you encompass all those great qualities and much more. If I ever offended you in any of my comments; I’m really sorry because in my honest opinion; RVIKI needs more volunteers like you in here.
Keep up the good work!

[my_happy_place]

@irmar

whole drama is peppered with “gonna, wanna”

I have volunteered on a couple different J-dramas now whose pre-subs themselves came with all the “Americanisms” including those you mentioned above as swell as the general tone you spoke of. The slang and colloquialisms were everywhere! I’ve even seen it in pre-subs for historical C-dramas! I can’t speak to the specific drama you’ve described and whether it came from a volunteer or pre-subs, but in my experience, it seems like a (disheartening) trend in pre-subs.