Viki

"I will leave first..."


#41

I have also a question, is there an oldfashioned term for “playboy”?

I read it once in a fantasy story with swordsmen and I had to think about today’s PLAYBOY magazine.


#42

@sonmachinima
Are we talking about a womanizer? I could give you the German old style expression - Lebemann, Schürzenjäger, Schwerenöter, Frauen-/Weiberheld,

Maybe dangler in English?
Or Lebenskünstler but the best I found was “connoisseur of the art of living”?

I am curious too, I guess it’s about a historical drama?


#43

It was a fantasy drama with swordsmen and some magic aspects and in one scene the English line was like: He is such a playboy.

So I chose Charmeur for the German version because in that context it was not about hunting girls to get them into bed but more in a way that he is quite nice and kind to people (no matter of the gender) to get what he want. You could call him a Süßholzraspler but I liked Charmeur more since it includes the way the character is and it is oldfashioned enough for a fantasy drama in my opinion.

Lebenskünstler does not fit for the character because it has a different nuance, more about surviving and making the best of a situation instead of being kind to others to get personal advantages.


#44

@sonmachinima
Flatterer/charmer in German “Schmeichler”, the one who is more talk than action. Good!


#45

Here you see VIKI’s wording vs official wording (the “nothing” sentence of official subs was a second earlier: Nothing.)


#46

Double negation really should be avoided because it confuses the reader. However, directly removing the double negation here would give a different meaning to the sentence (I can do anything).

I think that sentence could be written in a more intuitive way such as “I have to do something”, “I can’t just sit and watch”, or “I can’t just let it happen”. There is a plethora of different expressions which could be used, depending on the context.

But personally I don’t mind the example so much. It doesn’t “poke my eyes”.


#47

Ladies’ man
Seducer

Btw, this is a very useful site if people haven’t heard of it before

Really, we live in an age where we are only one google search away from the right answers and some seem to be too lazy to even find them (referring to the ie. people who wrote playboy in a historical drama).


#48

@bozoli
since 2013 I have suggested the use of thesaurus to subbers but since many subbers work in so many dramas at the same time, I’m guessing they have no interest to improve the quality of their subtitles or are too lazy bc it DOES add a lot more work.
What they don’t know is that it can enrich their vocabulary, as they learn new words during the process of finding a synonym for a word (it works wonders for me when I feel another word will sound better in the sentence).

I’M NOT SCREAMING OR HAVE ANY INTENT TO OFFEND ANYONE. I WANT PPL. TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE’S ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT IN THE SUBTITLES, AND IT WON’T TAKE SO MUCH OF OUR TIME AT ALL. TO THE CONTRARY, SHORTER SUBTITLES ARE NOT ONLY BETTER BUT HELPS THE OTHER LANGUAGE (SPANISH, FRENCH, GERMAN ETC…)TRANSLATION IN THE PROCESS.

We can help each other with our suggestion because I see more good than harm in them, why some people here chose to get offended or post how my comments might be considered breaking viki guidelines that can lead me to be terminated/from viki.’’ blah, blah, blah… (like if that will stop me from paying my rent with my money). If someone tries to make suggestion I don’t see the harm or need to make it look like I the person is doing something wrong.

This is the reason I want to mention here what I saw in an on air drama that affected the subtitle (not only the English translation but the Spanish translation as well). Although, I mainly blame the Spanish subber that obviously used a translator for her sub or used the tool suggestion and didn’t fixed it as time and time again the Moderator warned in her PM to make sure the suggestion tool sentence is correct before adding the Spanish subtitle in the drama.

So as I will leave first…(Korean) I’ll take my leave (Chinese) Good work (Japanese) made 39 replies let’s see how many replies we get from this one. With the understanding this is not criticizing but suggesting options for improvements in the sentence/subtitle

google translate english to spanish - G…

I read this subtitle in a Korean drama

. minute 23:08

Do all that flower watching you’ve been wanting to do and be on your way.
[The actress says before this ‘‘I don’t want to talk to you’’…(if I remember well)

[You can look at that flower all you want and just leave/be on your way(sounds ok too)]
What doesn’t sound right is [do all that flower watching you’ve been wanting to do] (Mind you the actress says about 4 to 6 words only, and in the sentence we have 15 words!)
Was it necessary to add all that?
You’ve been wanting to do? They lady has been looking at this’‘flower/tree’’ for a few scenes now.

The spanish sub done by a subber who I know makes many mistakes here at the site constantly but is in almost all Asian dramas (Korean, Chinese) wrote this translation/subtitle.

HAZ TODA ESA FLOR VIENDO QUE LA HAZ ESTADO QUERIENDO HACER Y ESTAR EN TU CAMINO. (sound like someone who can’t speak spanish but tries and fails miserably to do so).

Since the channel was close I couldn’t get evidence of the person who wrote this but the person in the GO who asked for a part in the drama, I know that person as the one who I rejected in my team (a while ago) because she makes too many mistakes in her English to Spanish subtitles.

In this case I don’t blame the English translation to be SO wrong but I feel that it could have been better, and maybe this subber would not make this disaster in the Spanish subtitle.

About 182,000,000 results (0.47 seconds)

Search Results

Translation Result

Spanish: HAZ TODA ESA FLOR VIENDO QUE LA HAZ ESTADO QUERIENDO HACER Y ESTAR EN TU CAMINO.

English: DO ALL THAT FLOWER SEEING THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WANTING TO DO AND BE ON YOUR WAY.

[Google Translate]

AMAZINGLY GOOGLE TRANSLATE GAVE ME FROM THE SPANISH SUB THE GIRL WROTE,THE SAME ENGLISH SUBTITLE THAT THEY WROTE IN THE DRAMA IN ENGLISH. THAT LEADS ME TO THINK THE KOREAN SUBTITLE WAS TRANSLATED BY A GOOGLE TRANSLATION. WHY IS IT THAT BOTH WRONG SUBS ARE IN GOOGLE TRANSLATE?

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IN THE ENGLISH SUBTITLE THEY WROTE: YOU’VE BEEN INSTEAD OF YOU HAVE BEEN.

I need to write it in big bc my sight is bothering me lately, and I tend to write with many mistakes.

Anyway, if we concentrate on making simple English sentence, and not use the full translation from Google translate and complicate things maybe the other Language subbers (spanish, german, french etc…) will make less mistake or the translation will be easier to be done by them. In the process, it will sound better when we translate to other language (in my case Spanish).

This is what the subber really wrote as I read her translation:

HAZ TODA ESA FLOR VIENDO QUE LA HAZ ESTADO QUERIENDO HACER Y ESTAR EN TU CAMINO.

Do all the flower looking (not seeing) that you are wanting doing and be in the road
REMEMBER PAST TENSE/PRESENT TENSE MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHEN WE TRANSLATE IN SPANISH

[haz toda esa flor viendo] [la haz estado queriendo hacer y estar en tu camino]

Now, I don’t want to sound ungrateful bc I appreciate the hard work of volunteers. As a volunteer I know is a lot of work but THERE IS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENTS. Lately, so little editing is done here at Rviki that this is ONE of the many subtitles I see in dramas that sound so wrong and the SPANISH subs much worst.

I reiterate I’m not criticizing the way the korean translation was done since I don’t know the language. But I do know that when translating Korean and using a translator for the subtitles we can’t write everything exactly as the translator suggested. We should simplify the sentence in English and we need to STOP translating word by word from the Korean translated subtitle (specially if sub are done with a translator). The best translations are done by native speakers of that specific language, and the Editors (we need more editors of every language in dramas) need to make sure that the correct translation was done in the subtitle. In my opinion, we don’t have enough editors because they are not added in the teams. The request are all over and I never see this names/ppl. with skills in editing, added in the teams.

Thank you for your attention and respectful reply to my post if you decide to give any. This is not a post to create any arguments. State your point as first person, what you will do instead that will/can improve the translations, not why you feel I’m wrong, and you are right.


#49

Hi! Jumping in as a professional translator, if I may :slight_smile:

I agree with a lot of what’s been said above. I have spent years watching dramas on Viki, and I’ve always kind of ignored those kind of issues in the translations because I know what goes on behind the scenes (I volunteer here and there, when I can) and I know most of the seggers/subbers/editors here aren’t professionals.

The eternal translating issue of foreignizing vs. domesticating translation is never going to go away, but going into one extreme or another is a tricky path to go on.
The source language shouldn’t be translated in such a “faithful” way that the end result in the target language becomes nearly impossible to understand.

We need to keep in mind that we’re not necessarily translating for someone who wants to learn the source language by watching shows – even though that’s commendable, and undoubtedly where a lot of my Korean skills come from. I’d argue a lot of the audience on Viki are casual drama lovers, and they don’t necessarily want to worry about what a sentence means or wonder why something is worded weirdly (eg. “I’m going” and all the other examples cited above).
I’ve watched a couple dramas on Viki with family or friends, and I’ve repeatedly seen them have problems understanding what the subtitles were saying because they weren’t familiar with Korean at all and the translation was too literal – they got confused because of grammar or wording (and yes, I’m including relationship terms such as 형, 언니 and the like in that category – which, in my opinion, should not be included in subtitles). Of course, it’s never to the point that they won’t follow what’s happening in the episode, but those small instances of “wait what” bring you back to reality and you’re just not “in the show” anymore, which is a shame.

Subtitles are meant to let a wide audience enjoy content made in a foreign language, but the brain shouldn’t be struggling to follow what’s being said because of them. They should be invisible to the viewer’s eyes: if you don’t notice you’re reading subtitles while watching a movie or a tv show, then the subtitles are probably good.
Editors really are our biggest strength when translators are being too literal, and their task is never easy, because going from something too literal to something more correct yet still faithful is a never ending challenge… But that’s also where all the fun is :wink:



Some more on subtitling

Somehow I’ve been writing this reply for too long and I don’t know if I’m on topic anymore, so I’m hiding this. I do hope I didn’t go off topic before this hidden part!
I wanted to talk more about some subtitling stuff, but I’ll keep it short (If anyone’s interested, we can also take it elsewhere)
A few years ago, I didn’t really mind or even see some of what I’m gonna mention next, so I know why people aren’t that bothered by it. But I’m academically trained now, and that left me with habits that I can’t shake. Sometime I do feel like we’d gain a lot from trying to use some guidelines that exist in the subtitling world, but it’s also complicated because they vary from one country to another. (French people really love their subtitling norms, but that’s a story for another time haha)

So in short, (very) basic subtitling norms that – from what I’ve seen here – aren’t known to most :

  • The human brain can’t process too many characters per second, so there is an average limit (around 15 char/sec) that shouldn’t be ignored
  • In a similar way, the number of characters per line needs to be limited too, especially since it gets super difficult to read long lines on wider screens. I know there’s the strange problem of roku not taking /br/ into account on here so we tend to not really cut subtitle lines… the only way to limit long lines would be to limit the length of sentences, I guess?
  • Segments shouldn’t be too long (+5 secs), and they shouldn’t go over shot changes in the video (I am of course aware that there’s a whole way of segmenting that’s been developed here, and I was never bothered by it tbh)

#50

@ [elikalia] The best part to me is the one you hid below, and I stand corrected: editors here are not professional translators but what I really meant was that they are educated enough and have degrees so they can tell when the sentence doesn’t sound right because the translation at some point was/is wrong like I explained with the example above.

The segments do play an important part so that the subtitles structure falls right into place for the enjoyment of the viewer but we are off topic with this one lol

This deserves mention that really proves you are a professional translator. Thank you.
The source language shouldn’t be translated in such a “faithful” way that the end result in the target language becomes nearly impossible to understand.


#51

For modern settings for sure, for fantasy and historical it depends. Just because someone went to university or has a profession doesn’t mean the person knows the necessary wording for a specific setting.

That also counts for subbers. If someone never read any or many fantasy or historical novels the person won’t be able to know terms that are suitable for these surroundings.

Same goes for modern stories that include specific topics like law/justice, medical aspects etc.


#52

@sonmachinima
I like how you stopped my quote/unquote, so you can give me your one track mind reply. I can’t argue about a language I don’t know.

I may add what @ [elikalia] added in her thread.

1h

Hi! Jumping in as a professional translator, if I may :slight_smile:

The source language shouldn’t be translated in such a “faithful” way that the end result in the target language becomes nearly impossible to understand.


#54

@angelight313_168

I think our focus is bit different. I understand that you mainly talk about common English terms/grammar while I’m talking also about certain surroundings and for me that is also important and often an issue when I compare VIKI subs with professional subs or synced versions elsewhere.

If you mean the SHIFT written examples I did not read it because capslock is exhausting for me to read.