Please be careful, or we will be censored and the topics will be reduced to talking about the weather or writing poems, metaphors or fables to avoid censorship.
Let’s not punish all the community because of 1 accident.
True, I am in the same predicament at the moment, where a drama has started airing at least a year after I applied for it. But I am also aware that I can always withdraw from the project and let someone else do the best job in the world on it.
Of course, once a CM grants a moderator position, they shouldn’t have to check if the appointed moderator suddenly has 7 on-airs instead of “just” 5. It should be a personal responsibility to not only apply for projects, but also to let them go in order to at least be within the project number limits Viki settled upon.
However, here we are talking about what happens before a moderator is recruited, not after.
Truth be told there should be a maximum number of project at any given time, not just for on-airs. A drama is on air for only two months. After which, if a moderator doesn’t finish their job, they have the right to ask for Moderating position for another on-air drama, and another one, and another one. Which leads to hoarding the mod positions obviously.
The Moderator selection process is often dubious. And probably what’s most important is that is not very open for newcomer moderators.
As I said, some people get massive advantage by knowing that a channel is open within a day, if not even within the hour. How is that possible?
A. Either someone told you about it (more likely), or
B. you stumbled upon it yourself by directly searching up the title (less likely, unless you do it daily or several times per day).
I can understand the “first come, first served” principle of giving moderator rights in the state of emergency - Viki had not done their job and the CM is chosen two days before air date. (Or even after air date… Good Lord, Viki!)
However, in a more reasonable (and promised) setting, a CM would have 4 weeks to gather a proper team. And in that case the above principle is trash. Because not only does a CM have good time to choose the mods who applied, but also more mods apply and hence the better are your chances as a CM to choose the right candidate.
Why do more mods apply? Because now even the ones who don’t have a well-developed information-sharing network on Viki have figured out there is this channel that Viki just opened! And that’s how extending the period to receive applications for Moderator positions (when possible) makes the selection system more fair.
I’m a newcomer moderator. I think that is a really important thing, so I waited for experience.
Only after 70.000 sub that I decided start in moderation (I decided, I wanted wait).
For my surprise, I was well received.
I met sweet-people that helped-me in my doubts (sharing moderation/informations).
I have 3 projects “on-air”, because I was aceppt (was a CM’ choice).
So, for me, I had the same chance that others.
I pay attention to always be within the project number limits Viki settled upon.
I love this job, and I do my best.
So, since this you said about oportunities, I just decided talk about my case.
bozoli. Logging in every day and several times on the same day here on Viki is not wrong. Being on Viki every day is not an advantage, it is dedication, passion and hard work. I enter every day and several times. I think I deserve a little respect, I speak in general. I work hard here. The big question is the list. I see that those on the list are people related to me (my language). Very few outside. It is a personal matter. I may be mistaken, but the CMs on the list are not people who enter the community every 15 days and I think they should not be singled out (when their projects are cited) for the dissatisfaction of others.
I don’t know if you noticed, but until you came here to this discussions, nobody mentioned you as part of any case. We are here only to discuss things in general. So, I don’t see how that in any way disrespected you.
No, it is not a personal matter and please don’t turn this thread into one. You seem to see what you want to see. This is your choice to make. I see something different. The list has a lot of languages. Because the biggest languages are the only ones with full moderator lists for every show, for those languages the list is objective. At the same time I’m not sure the list has all on-air projects at this point in time, so there is room for improvement.
Taking all of that into account, the list is more objective than your claims.
Who is singling anyone out? What are you talking about? (This was a rhetorical question.)
Also, if a volunteer comes every 15th day and translates an episode, why would they deserve any less respect than a volunteer who comes in every day and translates? To think that way is truly disrespectful!
I’m happy you haven’t had any mishaps For the most part I haven’t either. But I am lucky, I moderate a small language. So, I think circumstances play a big role how a volunteer gets along on Viki.
A few times it has happened that I heard someone say the CM sent them directly a message asking if they want to be mods before others find out about the channel. It slipped out, inadvertently, this nepotism. It was almost to the point of bragging, All of us who have been here a while have seen and heard a lot of such crap. I can imagine this thing had been happening on Viki a lot before, not so much today. But if it is still happening, it needs to stop. There is no more room for such behaviour on Viki.
I second that whole-heartedly! If so-called “library projects” don’t count, people will hoard them and they will remain forever half-done or not done at all.
Why is it crap if the Channel Manager chooses proactively someone who s/he thinks is good instead of waiting for others? What’s bad about this? I don’t understand. I have some people I’ve worked with very well in the past, I know they do a quality job, finish in a timely manner and they communicate well with me and with other team members. What’s not to like and why is it “nepotism”?
The bad thing (the nepotism) would be if they put their friends who are not good at their job, at the expense of other, more qualified people. But this, you know, can be debated, it’s hard to prove, who can judge others’ quality? Sometimes the difference is blatant, but not always so.
And of course, in languages most people don’t know, we have to trust someone’s words.
For instance, there is a language (I won’t say which, but it’s European), or rather a family of languages, where the war is incredible, almost as bad than the real war they had among them many years ago. I have been told about someone “she has two accounts, you said you didn’t take her because she has too many projects but she has another account and you took her anyway under her second name”, of another: “you say you’re on friendly terms but she’s badmouthing you”, of another: “she plagiarizes subtitles and copy-pastes from one language to another” and so on.
Now, imagine me, the CM, in this position. About a language that I know zero of. About people whom I’ve never seen except for their writings on my computer screen. What’s a poor CM to do?
I have heard other CMs say that they prefer not to have those languages at all rather than deal with all the drama.
No, it doesn’t.
If people follow the maximum of allowed projects by VIKI guidelines there is no problem when CMs inform volunteers they worked with before in other projects. Moderators do the same with subbers because overall it’s about team work and it costs less time to work together with people that already worked together as a team than with picking new people just because they’re new.
Maybe these fights are mainly a problem for Kdramas? I don’t know but I’ve got the impression that there are always more people who hunt for Kdramas than for Cdramas.
So maybe VIKI shouldn’t name a CM long before a drama actually starts to be released here. Then it would be clearer how many projects someone actually has; not just as a CM but also as a mod.
Really frustrating thing is not hoarding per se but hoarding unfinished projects. Why Channel Managers give other languages moderators position to someone who has two pages of unfinished projects? I looked into this and there are two types of moderators in my mother language.
One is serious and hardworking, always in top 50 of contributors. They can have even 20 projects in waiting but I see that they finish them sooner or latter. They know which drama is “hot” and how to prioritize.
Second are hoarders who stopped on second or third episode. They are registered members for a year or two but aren’t even Gold QC yet. What are they doing? If they wanted to subtitle, just give them subtitler without moderator status and access to couple of first episodes.
I know life happens, but if you don’t have time you shouldn’t apply do be a moderator.
Yes, I get what you’re saying, and I’m sure there are examples of both types of moderators in every language. But I also object to the first kind of moderator, the “serious and hardworking” one. Why on earth take 20 projects at once, if some of them will be of necessity put on the “back burner” waiting until their turn comes, maybe many months later? Why block them and delay them, when there could be someone else who could finish them in a timely manner. Why not take only 3-4 at once, finish those and then ask for more? What’s wrong with that?
It’s not the CM’s fault for not giving them a chance, they just don’t bother to complete a project even when they are given a chance.
There is nothing wrong with that. It would probably be good solution for bigger language communities but not mine. Our goal should be finishing as many projects as we can so other fans who are not very fluent in English could watch dramas on Viki.
For me it’s a choice between waiting some time for subtitles (with competent moderator) or waiting forever (with unreliable hoarder-type of moderator).
The analogy with towels is good. There ares some people who just throw them and never use. They don’t have experience and probably are not even that interested in having it. This type of behavior could discourage other potential moderators and/or subbers. A CM can always check a candidate for language moderator. If they got 20 projects in a year and finished 1, are they reliable? Why giving them another one? It’s not Spanish or Portuguese where time is of essence. Wait a little bit, at least to the day of first episode release. Maybe someone else will be interested.
I fully agree with you about not feeding hoarder moderators. I’ve written many times about it, and I said here that when I was CM I spent days doing my research as I could, with the inadequate tools Viki gives us.
I also agree that the CM should wait for some days until people get wind of the project, to give a chance to people getting the news of the project.
But I surely don’t agree with the following:
That’s WAAAY too long. (At least? LOL!) According to what you say, the poor chosen moderator should be notified on the day the first episode airs or comes to Viki, and he has just one day to gather a team, prepare a cover page (if you’re one of the languages that have one), prepare a Google sheet with names and relevant info for the subbers?
For Good Casting, I spent two or three days researching Intelligence Services, agents and what they do, make a glossary of possibly useful terms gleaned from many different websites. For instance what’s a black agent and white agent, and how to say that in my language (those terms do not exist in Italian. For the black one I used undercover which is two words “sotto copertura”, but white agent you cannot say it in one word, just “the one who works in an office and other people know of his existence”)
But let’s say the other things are not that important and can be done a little later. The important thing is to gather a team.
Some people don’t login every day if they don’t have an ongoing project, or if they have finished their episodes for the week. They reply to you days after, even a week after.
My favourite excellent subbers may not be available at the last moment. If they are so good, someone else may have grabbed them. What can I tell them? “I asked for moderator position for drama X, I don’t know whether I’ll be accepted, but in the meanwhile, please keep yourself available and don’t accept anything else just in case I get the moderation?” Absurd!
For subbers too, if they take on too many projects they won’t be able to dedicate sufficient attention to all of them. And I don’t want that.
Sometimes if it’s a specialist field you want to recruit some specific subbers, for instance I know one subber who is a lawyer, who helped us a lot both in “Solomon’s Perjury” and in “Memory”. I know of an English editor who is a retired mechanic, and an Italian one who used to work for military aviation and was indispensable to me when I did “Where Stars Land”, which had lots and lots of incomprehensible pilot lingo.
You need to reserve those precious people time ahead.
No no no. A moderator should have at the very least ten days to prepare. Preferably one month.
It might also be that, tired of waiting, the moderator himself has in the meanwhile said yes to another project and replies “Sorry but since it took you so long, now I cannot do it anymore”. So on the day the episode releases, the CM doesn’t have anybody for that language.
Telling people at the last moment is bad manners.
(If I understood correctly…)
Why taking 20 projects at the same time is…
- it is selfish, not sharing with others.
- in the future, the project is waiting and someone who can do it wants, he can’t take over.
- being in the radar of Viki and/or other mods and/or CMs
When? Many channels we don’t know when it will be licensed and aired on Viki… so I’m in ds if many of them are aired at the same time.
Same point with subbers for irmar.
If you’re going to do it alone bec you lack subbers… a lot of investments. When ppl find time?
- a little respect for the show… even a not popular one can be interesting for sb else… and that sb else might enjoy mod it and do it better… while I will stay on it without touching it before the next semester or next year and be bored while doing it…
If we tell the CM, we can’t do it now bec we have 15 projects now… not serious. The CM is supposed to recruit sb active or else the channel won’t be active or subbed until ages.
- quality: for being subtitler and editor and mod, it is really heavy. If they have 20 projects at the same time and they finish some really fast: can be doubts about the quality and if there was an edition. They might skip it.
The mod guidelines from Viki:
“It is important for Moderators to be regularly available for the entire run of a series…” (on air or not)
“They should be willing to provide quality contributions to the community.”
I suggest ppl to be careful bec once Viki is aware and the CM (or the team mods) receive Viki’s PM about that… bad advertisement and risks taken.
In general it’s good to actively seek out Moderators, of course. However, in this case it was crap because the CM knew there would be a lot of applicants for that one position, but she gave it to her buddy before anybody else finds out. The buddy who actually didn’t have time for it (hoarder). Not that the CM checked or cared. That’s why I called it nepotism. Both parties were at fault, the CM and the Mod. And this had been going on for a while.
Yes, exactly. Or not just more qualified people, but simply people with less projects and inherently more time for this project.
Hahaha! That was me, I said that. Yucky situation, best to forget it. Things got much better after I reported it to Viki.
Of course as a CM you don’t know where to put your trust, of course you don’t want to be put in the middle of a conflict. Unless I give you screenshots of when my team’s subtitle was created and when that other “team’s” subtitle was created, it’s difficult for a CM to check. And like, if you only have two days to assemble a team, you’re not delving into who is what kind of a moderator too much. Simply no time for that. Besides, I don’t even know how to attach a picture to a message.
If those CMs think they have it tough, imagine your subs being stolen by the same user’s team on three projects
That’s the thing… It’s not maximum number of projects globally. It’s maximum number of on-air projects. So, a user can have 5 on-air dramas at any given time and a 100 old projects with an episode or two translated.
I remember you recruiting for moderators for When the Weather is Nice. There was a little riffle of shock in our language community at the requirements you asked for. But since I participated in a lot of these types of discussions with you all here, my reaction was just
Needless to say, you didn’t get a lot of requests for my and neighbouring languages
If anybody is curious what I’m talking about, you can read it here:
That is true, as a Moderator you need time to organize yourself, wrap up any unfinished projects, or simply brace yourself for an overlap between two projects and exhaustion that ensues.
My dear, I you for this. I was thinking the same, but didn’t know if it should be mentioned. But it is so true! In this benevolent community we need to keep learning how to share! We need to put our egos behind. We need to revel in the satisfaction that a volunteer you helped get started, one day becomes your equal or even surpasses you.
That’s good to hear!
I actually did. Not lots and lots, but I did. You’d be surprised. There were some long, heated exchanges as well. And a lot of backstabbing. Very upsetting.
On the other hand, there was a Catalàn person who did all the subbing on his own (I think it was a guy, but I may be wrong), in a very timely manner, two episodes per week, and was finished very little after the rest of us. I have no idea how the translation is, but the collaboration was excellent all along. Same with Sandeep Sandhu who did the Hindi. So I’m not saying that a person working alone or almost alone cannot do the job!
And there’s a notorious* South-West Asian language which didn’t get a moderator at all. The applicant didn’t even bother to reply to my reply telling her why I’m not eager to work with her.
*Notorious because of this person, not because there’s anything wrong with the language, of course!
I sort of feel like I need to apologise here. I’m sorry you were put in this kind of situation. Some individuals have always been and will always be coo-coo. The rest of us try to work together as best as we can.
Are you a sage or something like that? If only it were true… If only people could understand the word “sharing”, the whole world would be better.
Well, I put the definition here, maybe some people may have an insight or find a conscience (or education) by reading this: (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglais/sharing)
-> to divide food, money, goods, etc. and give part of it to someone else.
-> If two or more people share an activity, they each do some of it.
-> If two or more people or things share a feeling, quality, or experience, they both or all have the same feeling, quality, or experience.
-> to tell someone else about your thoughts, feelings, ideas, etc…
-> to have or use something at the same time as someone else.
I you guys too, for this.
Ha ha, why would you? Then, every German should apologize for Hitler, every Russian for Stalin and every Italian for the Catholic priesthood doing you-know-what?
These people are your compatriots and neighbours but not your children, you’re certainly not responsible for them!