I'm so grateful towards Viki! ♥

I started using Viki platform as a viewer, just like most of the volunteers, I guess. :blush:
It was so many years ago that I can’t even remember. :thinking:
I was so happy to find such a great streaming platform dedicated to Asian dramas, with only quality subtitles! :star_struck: :partying_face: :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Anyway, later on, seeing this video about fans subbing the dramas themselves popping in all the time, one day I had more free time, I thought I could give it a try. :wink:
I wasn’t disappointed in any way, as I encountered a very nice mod, who happened to be my first sensei later on. She guided me very well while I was doing my first steps on Viki as a volunteer, using the subtitle editor for the very first time for real. The whole team had been very nice and patient with me the whole time. :revolving_hearts:

On the one hand, it seems like yesterday, on the other hand, thanks to many kind volunteers from all around the world, I have experienced a lot since then. I have encountered many very nice people from many different countries and communities. I’ve really found this whole team work interesting, challenging and rewarding. :partying_face:

When I started volunteering, I must say it was really just as a hobby. I love Asian dramas and translating. So, it seemed the perfect combination of both. I really like team work, so working with so many people from everywhere is so cool. It really is a bonus. :star_struck:

Later on, unfortunately, my everyday life has become really hard. :sob: So, I must say Viki has become even more than that. Thus, I have become even more grateful towards Viki to give me a reason to get up every morning, to challenge myself to do a better job on all my projects. :muscle:

I know there has been some changes here and there. So I just saw that as a new challenge and tried to adapt. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Viki is a company. So, of course they have competitors out there. And they have to do the best to keep their subscribers, right?

I have kept quiet for a very long time. But I must say I’m getting really tired of volunteers keeping criticizing Viki, Viki staff or directly the person appointing CMs. It’s getting more and more annoying.

I might not be a “senior” here as a volunteer if you think a “senior” must have volunteered for 10 years or more, but I believe respect goes both ways, and volunteers can’t tell the company how to do their job. :cry:

So, it would be really cool if you guys stopped yelling at Viki what to do or not to do.

Thank you very much. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: :revolving_hearts: :kissing_heart:
A lovely day to you all! :sparkling_heart: :purple_heart: :revolving_hearts:

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Later edit: My post was flagged by some people. I’ll let you decide what kind of people, given the situation this volunteer community is in, but I have nothing to change. There’s no lie in what I said, and it’s not my fault if some childish people can’t accept the truth.

Dear Lily, I’m quite certain that most volunteers, if not all, enjoy volunteering on Viki and certainly have at least one personal reason for staying here. Although many of the known and very well-known users are no longer active or are becoming increasingly inactive, it’s surely hard for them to completely let go of Viki.

As for the personal part of your message, there’s nothing to dispute; it’s absolutely true that Viki has had and still has a really great community of volunteers, but that’s exclusively at the volunteer level and only among volunteers, because let’s move on to the second part of your message.

As for the second part, the one involving the Viki team as well, I can’t share that same perspective, and that’s precisely why I’m choosing to reply to your message: to offer a counterpoint that more and more volunteers resonate with, even if not all of them choose to speak up. Some because they don’t want to get so involved, others because they don’t want to lose their status as favorites, others because they’ve built their entire existence on Viki around a false image and need to maintain it, others because they’re no longer here, and the list goes on.

Basically, you’re telling us that we should turn a blind eye to the utterly offensive way the Viki team has come to treat the volunteer community. Well, to be accurate, a large portion of the volunteers, because some still have the privilege of being favored by Viki.

Basically, you’re telling us to take it all as a challenge, but let’s not forget that a challenge is only acceptable when it’s fair for everyone, only when we’re all on equal footing. Which isn’t the case right now, as several people have pointed out in other threads.

Basically, the rest of the volunteers who are witnessing the Viki staff’s inadequate and utterly unfair behavior are growing weary of seeing that their voices aren’t being heard, and that, right before their eyes, the Viki team seems to be rubbing it in even more by refusing to communicate and continuing to treat a large part of the community unfairly.

I’m sure that everyone outraged right now understands that Viki needs to make some changes to remain competitive, but that doesn’t excuse the favoritism or, above all, the total lack of communication about what this volunteer community means, and will continue to mean, to Viki. I’ve been active online for years and have been, and continue to be, part of various communities, but the indifferent and condescending way Viki has been treating its community for some time now is utterly and boundlessly offensive. How can they still have the nerve to claim they’re a platform “powered by contributors”? How low has Viki sunk in its treatment of people who, out of enjoyment and love for this type of content, have chosen to dedicate their free time to it? Let me repeat: it’s perfectly fine for there to be changes, and not all of them will be to our liking, but absolutely nothing they’ve done or will continue to do excuses their total lack of respect toward us. There were staff members who wanted to build a relationship with us and help us however they could, but what happened? They were quickly pulled back or blocked from interacting closely with us. What does this mean? That there’s a boss at Viki, in charge of us, who thinks it’s perfectly fine to disregard us? I just hope this person or team isn’t a long-time member who knows the community’s history, because then it would be even more deplorable that things have come to this.

I know, it gets tiring to see more and more people speaking out, and, in a way, your privileged position of remaining on Viki’s list of favored CMs feels threatened; you just received a channel recently. That’s exactly why I really appreciate that you found the courage to post this message, but, sadly, it’s solely to ensure you keep your spot on the whitelist. Because yes, Viki indeed has a blacklist that, for several years now, people seem to be added to without any logic or justification whatsoever.

No, what we’re saying isn’t “yelling”; it’s a fact-based exposé of practices that show an increasing lack of respect for the entire community.

If even we, those of us who believe we must speak up when things are unfair, are considered to be “yelling” at Viki, what are we supposed to do? Should we just be lambs so we won’t be excluded by Viki? Should we be fake? Should we pretend that everything is fine?

No, nothing is okay right now; in fact, this is practically the most unpleasant period this community has experienced in the last 5–6 years.

I have total respect for your love for the work you do here, because that means you’re passionate about it, which leads to commitment and quality, just like the rest of us. But when it comes to the stance toward Viki, I can’t agree. Because that essentially means sweeping irregularities under the rug and perpetuating the same unfair and unjust practices.

The ones who should be defending Viki are Viki themselves. Because they are the only ones at fault for this situation. No one has forbidden them from communicating with us, those of us who have been and continue to be eager to communicate with them, but they alone have decided that this community deserves so little, if anything at all, from them. At this point, with absolutely no communication with us and an enormous focus on AI implementation, they can be considered among the companies that have come to disregard the human workforce and volunteer efforts in favor of AI.

I refuse to accept being labeled as someone who “yells” at Viki, since I have always been among those who spoke up when Viki did not act correctly; and for that, my entire history on this discussion platform is available for anyone to see.

We may be at the biggest turning point in the volunteer community, where most of us are asking for just one thing: to be told what our future holds. Because from what we can see from Viki at this moment, we’re heading toward extinction, but in the most abject way possible. A project is handed out now and then to the “favorites,” just to keep us around a little longer. And no, these aren’t assumptions, as long as we can all see the situation and as long as we aren’t told anything officially.

As I said earlier, this reply isn’t an attack on you, but simply a perspective representing the other side of the community, one that shouldn’t be disregarded for the sake of a company that has chosen this dishonorable way of treating us. Many think like me, but they are afraid to confront Viki or just don’t want to say it, yet they still think this way.

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Alright, “yelling” might have been a strong choice of word. Sorry about that.

You do know we often see things in a different perspective. So, that’s no surprise we see things a different way on that point too.

Anyway, just like always, you’re making up your own story behind my words, inventing things I never said. Always pointing out your seniority, taking a superior attitude towards the ones who arrived later. Nevermind. I’m used to it now.

“Favored”, “priviledged”, “white list”, “keep your spot”?
You have no idea how my life sucks right now! Come on. Even though you’ve often lacked respect towards other volunteers including me and acted all superior because of your so cool “seniority”, I have only showed you respect. So, can you please do the same?

I understand that there has been many changes here on Viki, and that some might not like it. But I believe things can be done with respect, things can be done with good manners. Viki is giving us a lot. Maybe you don’t see things the way I do. No problem. But I don’t think anyone can tell Viki what to do or not to do and how.

But you can all share your opinion in the discussion section of the website, like always.
Who am I to ask people some respect, after all?

The fact that I talk about things that all of us can see, even though we don’t want to accept them, can’t be labeled as ”making up your own story behind my words, inventing things I never said”.

Read my message again to avoid making false accusations, especially since you know very little about me and how I actually am. We never had any consistent and relevant chats to get to know me. You only know about me from what you can see here and maybe from other contributors, but not directly from me. So I don’t know what ”you’re used to” since we never had any chat at a personal level.

It’s not my fault that Viki put some contributors in this position. Just because some of us are using these labels, it doesn’t mean that you are the ones at fault or that we have something with you directly. So that’s why you shouldn’t take this as an insult or as something personal with you, the ones in this position. As for the personal struggles, I’m pretty sure many of us have them and choose not to use them as an argument here since it has zero relatability with this platform and what we are doing.

Respect should be earned, not asked for. So even if tough, I was never disrespectful towards anyone, especially since I always stated the facts, not any illogical or fantasy stuff. Viki should be the one to earn, again, our respect if they are considering that we don’t have it anymore for them.

And you probably missed the point of my post, since for me there was never a problem with things changing. But as long as they have us on their platform, claiming that they have subtitles made by volunteers, I’m entitled to ask them for communication and transparency regarding our management. That’s what many of us are asking for.

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Well, I guess there will always be a communication problem between you and me.
As there seems to be a cultural gap between you and me, for sure, and a huge one!
I just respect everybody. It’s just needless to say. People don’t need to ask for it!
At least until they show lack of respect towards me.
Then they should earn it again, of course. And it might take time and efforts.
So I will not say more.
Have a nice day.

I joined Viki in mid-2024, so I’m not a senior here and I have no idea what communication with the platform was like before that. I won’t compare, then. I’ll only talk about what I’ve seen since.

What Viki gave me, above all, are the people I met. :purple_heart: Wonderful people who took the time to train me, to explain things, to correct me without ever making me feel like I was in the way. People I get along with really well today and with whom I still talk far beyond our contributions on projects. All those shared moments, in our conversations as much as in the work we did together, are something that will stay with me no matter what happens. And when Lily says that what started as a simple hobby became much more than that, I understand exactly what she means. Everything I know how to do here, other volunteers taught me, even if none of those encounters would have existed without the platform. Both matter.

I don’t know how channels are assigned, and honestly I don’t think many people here do. Maybe that’s the real issue: not who is favored and who isn’t, but understanding what the decision is based on. Explaining the process would probably clear up a good part of the suspicion.

Then there are the AI subtitles. I think everyone here has already seen what that looks like, so there’s no need for me to go into detail. A machine translates words, but it doesn’t see the expressions on people’s faces, it doesn’t know who is speaking to whom or in what tone, and everything tied to the period or the culture goes over its head. In a historical drama, a large part of what the relationships between characters actually mean simply disappears. This isn’t about translator’s pride, it’s about what the person watching ends up receiving.

What I find most unfortunate is for those who would like to start now. In barely two years, I’ve already seen the difference: when I arrived, there was room to learn, to get things wrong, to be trained by someone patient. Today, getting into the community and improving seems considerably harder. And newcomers are precisely the ones with the most to lose: you train yourself without knowing whether the role will still exist.

So the real question, for me, isn’t about telling Viki how to run its business. It’s about knowing what they have in mind for us: does volunteering remain at the heart of the project, does it become something secondary, is it meant to disappear? Only they can tell us that. All we can do is hope they will one day, and there’s no bitterness on my part if the answer takes time.

Because at the end of the day, we don’t know everything. The staff members we talk to may not be the ones making the decisions, and they may not want it to go this way either. We have no idea what comes from them and what comes from above. So I still appreciate Viki, while finding this silence unfortunate.

In the meantime, I’m carrying on with what I love. As long as I can translate, I’m fine. :blush:
Have a lovely day, everyone! :sparkles:

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Ha ha!
In Italian we have an expression: “la faccia come il c…”. Look it up, I think that Gemini will explain it.
Or is it a case of the ostrich choosing to bury its face in the sand?
Or both?

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Dear all, I have nothing but respect for this site and all the volunteers. No one is here to bossing anyone, let alone other harsh words. It’s just that the respect Dimghro mentioned needs to go both ways. It shouldn’t matter how many years you’ve put in, how old you are, or who was here first. Right now, there are just way too many mixed signals, and we seriously need some clear answers. Honestly, if anyone had bothered to explain things even a little bit, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Anyway, I’m genuinely glad you’re grateful to Viki—I am too. And I’m pretty sure Dimghro is as well, maybe even more. But it’s completely fair to ask questions, and it’s just as fair to expect some real answers. If we’re all volunteers here, why are my friends constantly asking me why the newer shows haven’t been translated yet, not even signal for small languages for longer time, days, months? They just want to sit down, enjoy the shows, and actually be able to follow the story like everyone else in the first few days after they drop. We pride ourselves on being a community-driven translation platform for our viewers, but lately, it feels like that’s just not true anymore. And the Help Center is pretty much useless at this point. From my current perspective, unfortunately there’s a lot of outdated information.
I like the way Rumblenzo put it in his message. It is very diplomatic and accurate.

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@lilybidulgi Please do not interpret this post as a criticism of you directly or any implication that you have done anything wrong.
However, one of the complaints of many of us oldtimers is that selection of channel managers is unfair and your own history at viki in the very short time you have been here is a prime example of the unfairness of viki staff in channel manager selection. You joined viki in August, 2023, and have already been appointed channel manager five (5) times. I joined viki in 2009 and did have the pleasure of being selected as channel manager from 2012 or thereabouts to about 2021 for over 30 times in NINE YEARS. You have approximately 145,000 contributions. I have 1.2 million contributions. In the three years since August, 2023, when you joined, I have been appointed channel manager zero (0) times.
Surely, your appointment was not random since there are probably well over one hundred applications for each project which was briefly posted by viki. While I can understand the relatively new viki preference of providing newcomers the experience of becoming a channel manager, how many other viki volunteers who have been at viki for a mere three years have ever been a channel manager despite multiple applications? And in that same three year period, how many oldtimers have not been selected as channel manager? The selection process is NOT random nor fair in that all qualified by contribution records have equal chances of selection.
I am well aware that there are other relative newcomers like you who are repeatedly being selected as channel manager in preference to others with 5, 10 or 12 years of experience at viki. viki does not publish the criteria which are actually being applied for channel manager selection. (On another thread, when I pointed out that someone who was at viki for less than four years had been already selected 17 times as a channel manager, viki blocked viewing of my post! I did not name the favored person. So let’s see if this post weathers censorship. )
I am not questioning your ability to be a channel manager or being a diligent contributor or your passion for viki. But there are probably hundreds of us who are equivalent in quality of contribution and passion who are asking why have I not been selected?
Is it any wonder that I believe we have been blacklisted? If you were in our position, would you not feel you are being discarded like old shoes? Have you experienced having messages to viki staff go unanswered except for a canned response in Chinese, which I don’t understand and which was not related to my request at all? Essentially, many of us have become non-persons. It is only logical that those of who feel we have been blacklisted believe this to be so because we have openly said the emperor has no clothes and are being punished for that by being ignored.
It is not a matter of inability to communicate between you and dimghro. You said "You do know we often see things in a different perspective. " The different perspective is between someone who is being favored by the current viki staff and someone who is being ignored.
If your personal life sucks now, I am sorry, and can understand why receiving positive treatment at viki means so much to you that you would defend the staff. But that is no excuse for denigrating the statements of fact by dimighro and others that viki has changed for the worse. The fact that there are differing opinions is not evidences of lack of respect or rudeness.
I see no lack of respect from Dimighro in his response to you or rudeness but simple differences in history, experience and perspective. I do not suspect that you have done something to curry favor with viki staff. You probably are the unwitting beneficiary of their largesse. But the fact that someone is benefitting from the non-transparent policy does not make the policy fair or transparent.

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Lol :joy:

@cgwm808 First of all, my post has never been about CM’s appointment in the first place.
Then, you’re just twisting my words, how would I not take it personally? :rofl:

So, @silvercat is saying “It shouldn’t matter how many years you’ve put in, how old you are, or who was here first.” (Thanks for saying that, dear, :pray: :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: I can assur you, I hear the exact opposite too often :cry:). But you (@cgwm808) are saying the exact opposite, throwing to my face your seniority, just the same way some others (I won’t name) often do. And then again, you’ve been appointed 30 times as CM in NINE years, which is absolutely awesome! Congrats for that!

So, according to your criteria, newcomers have no right to start managing a channel just because there are old CMs? Even if they do a good job and have the right skills to do so? But maybe I misunderstood that part…

Well, I just apply like everybody else. And I really like Channel managing. So, what should I do? Stop applying because I’m kind of threatened by some oldies? Is that’s your point here? Well, you know what? It’s not gonna happen.

We’re all allowed to apply. I love team work. Should I be sorry when I’m appointed as CM? :thinking: Once I am, I just do my best to manage the channel. Should I appolize for doing a good job? :thinking:

Anyway, I never judged anyone’s opinion or denigrated anyone on Viki. Like I said, I am always respectful towards everybody. And I must even say that here on Viki, I’ve been even more patient and stayed respectful even towards a few people who showed me disrespect, so…

But if anyone felt wronged by my words in any way, they can feel free to PM me anytime. I am sure we can talk it out. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

A lovely day to you all. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: :revolving_hearts: :kissing_heart: :hibiscus:

@ lilybidulgi Please quote where I said anything even close to “newbies should not be channel managers”. I simply stated facts which you choose to see as “throwing my seniority” in your face. Was my statement of facts about years and contributions rude or inaccurate? Anyone would salute your thousands of subs over a relatively short period. My point was that we are equally qualified.
I’ve been around a long time so I have experienced a viki which was much friendlier and respectful toward the volunteers. If my bringing up “old” experiences is “throwing seniority in your face” then I guess there truly is a communication gap.

Here’s an example of what I consider past viki fairness. On one or two occasions, when the CM became inactive, viki asked all the mods on the project if they were interested in becoming the replacement channel manager. I wasn’t the lucky one chosen but I am sure none of us mods were disappointed because we thought the procedure was fair as we had all contributed to the project.

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Im adding my 2 cents, @lilybidulgi you joined Aug 22, 2023 “only” and I have to say, you know really little about the Viki community since the older days… you have not grown with the community since and you have not witnessed what kind of changes we all went through and also have given Viki great tools to where it is now.

The sad part is, that something changed in Viki’s management and they seem not much in need of our building community anymore using somewhat unfair selection of volunteers and even not communicating with us about this nor what the future holds…

Therefore, I have to disagree with some of your statements and stand with @dimghro

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I think you cannot judge fairly the current Viki behaviour because you weren’t here in its heydays, this is a reality, not seniority. Do you know we had got dedicated staff members for our needs? There were people we know by name, we saw and speak to in video conference where they asked us our opinions about improvements and changes. I know, now it looks like science fiction, but a good relationship between staff and contributors should be ALWAYS more productive even now, after years of feeding its AI with our knowledge (AI didn’t catch everything @vikicommunity, but you know it already). The general feeling is to be “seduced and abandoned” @lilybidulgi

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What I noticed from the recent contributions I’ve been making to Viki is that we are slowly feeding the AI tool they use with our editions.

There are a lot of projects in Viki with no volunteer CM whatsoever. The question is why only random dramas receive a volunteer CM?

If you guys notice the AI translations are improving (at least in Portuguese) even in the historical cdramas.

My conclusion is that our only purpose now is to feed the AI. That’s it.

Unfortunately our time here is ending. And they just don’t communicate all the changes to us because they know we won’t accept it, they’ll keep it this way till we give up.

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I honestly don’t know why some projects get a volunteer CM while others are handled directly by the Viki subtitling team. On some of the projects I’m currently working on, there is no CE and no CS at all, because that’s simply how Viki is running things at the moment…

And I’ll be fair: comparing the early days of AI subtitles to what I see now on historical dramas, there has been some improvement in French. That much is true. But for me, improvement isn’t the same as being good enough.

In French, we don’t have a single neutral “you”. We have “tu” and “vous”, and every line forces a choice between them. That choice carries the whole relationship: how close two people are, who outranks whom, whether they’re being warm, cold or deliberately insulting. AI can’t make that call, because the information isn’t in the sentence, it’s in the scene. So it guesses, and it guesses differently from one line to the next. You end up with two characters switching between formal and intimate address in the middle of the same conversation.

In a costume drama, that costs you something real: the moment two characters shift from “vous” to “tu” is a scene in itself, sometimes after twenty episodes of waiting, and AI doesn’t know that moment exists, so it never happens. Same with gender, since French adjectives change depending on whether the person is a man or a woman and AI doesn’t see the screen. And I doubt this is a French-only problem, because any language with formal and informal address hits the same wall.

So maybe we will be replaced one day. But the subtitles will be poor, and viewers will feel it even if they can’t name what’s missing. Nothing replaces a real person going through the episode, and above all someone who does it out of passion. In other words: US. :purple_heart:

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Same problems in Italian.The most tragic/funny thing is AI doesn’t know how to translate in Italian Master and Sister in Rebublican dramas. Our public gets Teacher and Nun :rofl: Well done! Republican dramas need lot of work and adjustments to be really watchable.

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Currently I checked on one Anime Season 2. For Season 1 there was a team and the second no team, and sadly the AI or google translates some names or titles from probably Chinese into English, but we are talking about German subtitles… so viewers want to read German subtitles but see many English wordings… and some are even mixed up, once lower case next upper case… and of course the titles and many words do not match Season 1… without sending a word to mods, if we would like to edit season 2 to match season 1… what people work there… I wonder…

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Same problem with Mystic Nine 2026 (The Nine Gates). I was The Italian Mod for Mystic Nine 2016. This drama would be lucky because lots of the first season Moderators are still active. As @cgwm808 said, in the past @vikicommunity asked who among old Mods would like to be CM for the second season to choose one of them, but these days are gone. I do hope ONE DAY they will entrust this drama (and your anime) to contributors following some common sense.

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You should know that, outside of Viki, the people who help train AIs are paid, and very well, at that. In fact, that’s what I’ve decided to do now, given Viki’s negative shift in its treatment of contributors.

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Sweetie, this is not what she meant in any way. I can sincerely understand Cgwm. That is why I created that other thread. Just imagine that one day, if Viki is still up and available to volunteers in 10 years, you stop being a CM, stop being asked to moderate for your language, stop being asked to translate. You start to wonder what you did wrong. Were you not sincere enough, did you upset someone, was there a mistake you made. So many things… but in your heart you know you did your best but Viki just stops caring about you. New volunteers come, they start taking your place, all your hard work is no longer being seen as a contribution.

We are not saying that all of the wonderful new and upcoming volunteers should be pushed aside, but we are also asking Viki not to push us oldies aside either. Fair is fair. There should be rules in place for ALL who are still active on Viki to get a piece of the pie.

Everything in between should be void except these two sentences. This was the absolute point that should be made. There is no rhyme or reason why Cgwm has been excluded for 3 years. She is not accusing you. She just wants a fair chance from Viki.

EXACTLY!!!

As for the title of your thread… ABSOLUTELY! I’m so very grateful to Viki. I’ve made so many friends, lifelong friends, from all over the world. Many I actually met… here in the US or overseas. Without Viki, my Korean, Chinese, Japanese, and even Thai have grown immensely. I never thought in my entire life that I’d ever learn to read Chinese, but here I am. Viki opened so many doors… I’m absolutely grateful for this. AND it is a bridge not only for language but for religion, government, ideology, and culture, and so many other things…

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