Do not translate proper names unless Netflix provides approved translations.
Nicknames should only be translated if they convey a specific meaning.
Use language-specific translations for historical/mythical characters (e.g. Santa Claus).
When translating Korean, Simplified Chinese and Traditional Chinese content, the name order should be last name-first name, in accordance with linguistic rules. For South Korean names, first name should be connected with a hyphen, with second letter in lower case (i.e. 김희선: Kim Hee-sun), and North Korean names, first name is written without a hyphen (i.e. Kim Jong Un). For Chinese names, first name should be connected without a space, with only the first letter in upper case (i.e. 宁世征: Ning Shizheng). When romanizing names into English, standardized romanization guides should be followed, but well-established localized names should be allowed as exceptions." https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/217350977-English-Timed-Text-Style-Guide
There’s a difference between NK and SK naming conventions!
I didn’t know that they treat NK and SK names differently but in general I actually like their rules. I really hope that our Viki editors can at least agree on one set of rules. Whenever I work on a new project, I have to read the Team Notes and follow different rules according to whomever is in charge.
Not possible and not auspicable. Because then who gets to impose his rules on others? Who chooses the person who will take the decisions? You may suggest voting? What if we don’t agree with the ones the majority chose? What if the majority is wrong?
And yet you’ve been here longer than I have. Yes, I’ve seen enough around here to believe that there would be sickeningly violent catfights on who gets to call the shots.
Actually, although I have been a longtime Viki subscriber, I’ve only been volunteering since July of last year. Perhaps I underestimate the strong personalities involved but I hope our editors can set aside their differences for the sake of all subbers, and to provide consistency for the viewers.
In 2009, I sampled Korean to English subtitlers on how to Romanize proper names because the Revised Rules of Romanization left it up to each individual as to how to Romanize their own names. The majority in 2009 chose last name followed by first (given) name and if the first (given)name was two syllables, two separate syllables, each capitalized with no hyphen between.
Because from time to time people assert that the naming convention is the subbing guidelines I authored is not what is favored, or not what is being done by Koreans, I recently polled 100 Korean to English subbers. Thirty-nine responded to the survey, which is an adequate sample size.
(https://www.statisticshowto.com/large-enough-sample-condition/ where n is greater than or equal to 30, “it’s large enough.”)
84.5% of the respondents chose last name followed by first (given) name. If the first (given)name was two syllables, sixty percent preferred two separate syllables, each capitalized with no hyphen between. (Same as the majority in 2009). Thus, I see no reason to change the subbing guidelines when I am Chief Editor.
I was also interested in how vowels are being Romanized. So I asked a series of question.
송 is Romanized to Song (100%)
숭 was Romanized to Soong (74.4%) (This is contrary to the RRR)
성 is Romanized Seong (79.2%)
승 is Romanized to Seung (97.4%)
I also asked about length of time subbing at viki with less than 1 year, 1 year, 2, years 3 years, 4 years, 5 years or more available as responses. The modal response was 5 years or more (35.1%) Approximately 60% of the respondents have subbed at viki for 2 or more years.
I think Korean to indo-european languages transliteration is in general very broken. Transliteration to a IE language essentially tries to translate Hangul. Phonetically the surname Kim 김, often sound like ‘Gim’ phoneticaly, while it is transliterated often as K. Also some Hangul letters can correspond to 2 sounds, like ㄹ, R/L. While in when I hear English most letters even are phonetically multi-sounds, such as ‘I’ I hear as ‘Ai’ and ‘A’ as ‘Ei’. Which makes things harder since a IE speaker may read the already problematic transliterated text wrong, since the letters are multi sounded. So there multiply transliteration standards trying to get it right phonetically, by interperting the Korean sounds different, according to which sound of a multisound latin letter they should use, compared to the neigboring standard. The problem as I se it is that most IE languages, including English, aren’t phonetic while the transliteration tries to be phonetic within this non-phonetic environment, thus breaking the entire thing.
Your sample was Korean to English subtitlers, so they either live in English-speaking countries or their second language after Korean is English. So their responses would be expected to be English-centric, a way of writing that is comfortable to native English speakers.
However, we all know that native English speakers are not the only ones to consume English subtitles. Most European languages would be more comfortable with U romanized as U and not OO, because for us “oo” is just a double “o”.
Actually, I was surprised that in two out of three cases they did stick to RR. (I’m not counting the Song question, that was too obvious, what else would one put?)
It was interesting that they were not consistent in their choice. For instance they chose “oo” instead of u in 숭, but they didn’t choose “u” instead of “eo” in 성
This mixture is very confusing in my opinion. Either use the colonial style of u for eo and oo for u, or use the RR, not picking and choosing bits of one and bits of the other.
I think it’s because:
If we write 숭 as “Sung”, a majority of people would read it as the past tense of the English word “sing.” “Soong” lets people pronounce it easily without mistakes.
But in the case of 성, “sung” isn’t really the correct pronunciation. Since most people know how to pronounce “Seoul”, they might be able to do the same with “Seong”. Of course, people can just as easily mistakenly pronounce it as “see-ong.”
If I had to compare between “Sung” and “Song” for 성, I think the “Song” pronunciation is much more accurate.
But this is all interchangeable only for 성. IMO, using “u” instead of “eo” proves very inconsistent. It’s fine for names like “Jung In Sun” and “Sung Hoon,” but what about Seo Kang Joon or Hyo Yeon? “Su Kang Joon” and “Hyo Yun” will have very different pronunciations from the actual thing.
Since “u” has different sounds, it can get confusing and inconsistent.
@Mattlock The first principle underlying the RRR is “Romanization is based on standard Korean pronunciation.” Generally under the RRR ㄱ before a vowel is “g” and before a consonant or at the end of a word is “k” . However, the surname 김 is frequently Romanized as Kim because the RRR provides that sometime in the future, the National Institute of Korean Language will promulgate standards for transcription of family names (surnames). Until the adoption of such standards, Koreans are free to Romanize their names as they have done so previously.
"Also some Hangul letters can correspond to 2 sounds, like ㄹ, R/L. " This is not an inconsistency of the rules but reflects pronunciation of Korean. When ㄹ appears at the beginning of a syllable (except in loan words), “r” is used and when it is at the end of a word or precedes another consonant, “l” is used.
Here’s the naming rule set by the National Institute of Korean Language.
"(4) Personal names are written by family name first, followed by a space and the given name. As a rule, syllables in given names are not separated by hyphen, but it is admitted to use a hyphen between syllables. (Transcription in ( ) is permitted.)
Table for personal names (민용하, 송나리) 민용하 Min Yongha (Min Yong-ha) 송나리 Song Nari (Song Na-ri)"
My personal preference has always been family name first, followed by a space and the given name without the hyphen. Ex.) Min Yongha
Having said that, I don’t always like following the RR rule set by the National Institute of Korean Language when spelling a name.
For example, while I agree ㅓ is best spelled as “eo” in general, I really dislike it when 영 in a name is spelled as Yeong. I have so many friends whose name includes 영, and every single one spells it as Young. Same for 경. I’ve never seen anyone spelling it as Kyeong. It’s always Kyung.
I understand why it might be confusing to spell 성 as Sung and 서 as Seo though, so I suppose standardization could be good. But I don’t always have to like it, right? (Yeong, Kyeong -> Yuck!) (Young, Kyung -> Yay!) lol
To be honest, until I started translating at Viki, I never paid much attention to the different ways of romanizing Korean names. Quite frankly, my own name 현정 is spelled Hyun Jung. I am sure there will be more than one Viki editor who would correct it to Hyeonjeong.
As a viewer, I don’t really have a huge issue with the different ways of romanizing Korean names. However, as a subber, I would appreciate standardization just so that I don’t have to constantly be mindful of which CE I am working with so that I can follow her rules.
This is understandable, and you are perfectly right that it is a bother having to adapt.
Just as the issue of how to format cultural notes or when to use square brackets, or whether to italicize the words of someone in the same room but off-screen, or when to put uppercase in job titles.
For those things there are different style guides even in “professional” writing.
But at least for Korean names we do have an official set of guidelines!
That’s why I’m saying that, since there are so many different ways and personal preferences to choose from, why not choose the RR which is the official stance of the Korean government since 2000?
This said, even I make exceptions for Kang, Kim, Choi, Park, Lee (in sageuks Yi) because they are so very common and people have become used to them written like that since forever, so it would seem very weird. But I would welcome the time where gradually those names would also start being written in the RR way.
Personally, I don’t mind following the RR way for name writing, with one exception. I have to admit that I am somewhat partial to “oo” instead of “u” for most cases involving ㅜ sound.
현 is another one of those I’d typically spell it as Hyun, not Hyeon. I would have spelled 현정 as Hyunjung in real life. I guess I like using “u” for ㅓ and ㅕ sounds in general. Sun, Jung, Sung, Suh, Pyun, Kyung, Chung, Hyung, etc.
I agree! For some reason, I find Hyun and Kyung prettier I hate it when “Sehun” is spelled “Sehoon.” Something itches inside me But I’m completely fine with Kwon Soon Young and Sung Hoon. “Sunyoung” would make people pronounce his name really badly.
Indeed, in Korean it is consistent, but when transliterating it isn’t due to the multi-sound issue. The problem isn’t Hangul or Korean, but rather the receiving side. the Latin sound for R and L are usually different sounds. But when pronouncing the ㄹ in Korean in it’s different forms it makes sense. This means that in addition to learning Korean, you also have to learn this half-language, the transliteration layer, and it’s rules and new sounds associated with each letter. Personally, I just use my own transliteration and prefer to learn the local alphabet and if possible skip this screwed up middle layer. If anyone likes the current system, then good for them. The Hangul letter ㅡ as another example is often transliterated as ‘eu’, ɨ or similar etc. So for an idiot non-language ‘nerd’ (for lack of a better term) like me, non of those makes much sense when trying to learn, your brain read one thing, but hear another when listening to the correct pronunciation. Of all the transliteration methods, IPA is imo the best, instead of doing it into say Latin, English etc. To be honest, I don’t think you should have to be a nerd at the topic or have to learn multiply languages in order to essentially try and learn one, in order get to your goal, it’s super inefficient. I honestly don’t think I should have to learn how to pronounce ㅡ, transliterated e, u and eu, ipa ɨ, then relate that to one of the existing languages I know in the form of the standard pronouncing and actual phonetic pronunciation. Just to learn ㅡ, but most often to get past any course on the subject, you have to know most those essentially separate systems.
Another good one! I always spell 언니 as “unni.” I can see in European countries, this might be pronounced as 운니 instead of 언니. But I use “unni” in real life, so “eonni” looks really strange to me. I suppose using “u” for ㅓ sound is more of an American thing.
(Yeong, Kyeong -> Yuck!) (Young, Kyung -> Yay!) lol 
