New Style of moderating Viki's main page of a show's comments

General Discussion
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Wow. I am always ready to learn. I’d like to have someone offer a way to visually signal when someone is joking with another person.

@kdrama2020ali and I, as it turns out, have ancestral roots in the same part of the United States where, despite what has been said for about 180 years regarding ethnic marginalization of certain groups, there has always been a strong cultural undercurrent of belief in the dignity and value of every human being.

In fact, this film, based on events in the state of Virginia where I grew up, portrays the lives of a couple whose marriage in the face of anti-miscegenation laws was the catalyst for a Supreme Court case that overturned those laws and allowed many couples of differing ethnic backgrounds to marry and raise families.

https://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/loving_movie_supreme_court_case

‘Loving’ movie gives new significance to landmark court case
By Leslie Gordon
April 1, 2017, 3:30 AM CDT

image

We can joke around about a lot of things because we share very similar cultural values and idioms, and even though we do come from a part of the United States with an admittedly difficult and troubled past as well as present, that trouble is not the context in which to place my remark.

I would have to do a fair amount of research on it, but i think that, linguistically speaking, when one person calls another person a “slave-driver,” that person is giving a nod to the story of the ancient Israelites struggling in Egypt before they were set free to follow Moses to what some refer to as the Promised Land.

And I am not referencing that story with the intent of stirring up religious debates or getting people to hate on Middle Eastern ethnic groups. I just want to lay a linguistic and cultural foundation in order to say that, under most every circumstance, calling someone a “slave driver” (whether in earnest or in jest) is to call that person an authority figure who is nitpicky, anal-retentive, dissatisfied. And he or she is hyper-critical and will not stop complaining about employee behavior.

@kdrama2020ali is certainly not that, and my remark was made in the context of a very fanciful “conversation” that posits a world in which she and I (and several other Viki volunteers) are famous enough, stunning enough, and rich enough to hobnob in a very noona-oppa-dongsaeng sort of way with several extremely wealthy Korean entertainers.

Like that would ever happen, right?

I think it’s reasonable for someone to say, “I see politics all over.” Politics comes from the Greek language and refers to how life is organized and run so that people can live together well in community.

The PDF file below does a great job of sorting that concept out.

http://www.macollege.in/app/webroot/uploads/department_materials/doc_460.pdf

I very much believe that it is the duty of every human being to be political and to care about how the human community gets along. I can’t imagine life any other way.

However, without clues from my body language and tone of voice, any one happening upon our exchange has only his or her experiences and beliefs to draw on in interpreting my comments.

Other than trusting someone who says, “I’m joking” or accepting an apology for ignorance, I don’t know how people can communicate thoughtfully and openly on the Discussion Board when some aspect of language appears problematic.

But if anyone has other ideas that might lead to greater understanding, I am interested to know what they are.

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You’re stating the obvious because mattlock doesn’t seem to be getting it.
Nitpicking about the general meaning of politics and how quoting someone might be thought as attacking.

Although there may be some overlapping or grey areas, I think all of us here get the meaning and purpose of the rules: to avoid topics which may make people aggressive and nasty towards each other and spark a flame war. And it has been known -for centuries now- that politics, religion, nationality, race (in my country, one should have added soccer), are things that can very easily spark hostility. Are we hiding our head in the sand, pretending we don’t know this? It’s enough to visit youtube. Even a peaceful, lovely Arabic song, with long shots of the desert with camels in the sunset was able to spark insults to Arabs for being extremist and bla bla bla and one thing led to another, so the next thing, under that romantic song, was pages and pages of people insulting each other, talking about how the prophet got married to a 9-year-old girl and whatnot. I mean, every pretext is good for hate!

Politics in that context means stuff like “I support this president/party and dislike the others” “I resent your country’s interference in my homeland’s power struggles” “If you voted for X you’re a moron” and so on.
Nationality in that context means "Ah, yeah, you’re X nationality. That’s why you’re lazy and you people can never advance/ That’s why you’re an arrogant fascist/ You’re all thieves
Personal attacks are… oh well,all have seen those here in Discussions. Not agreeing with someone’s opinion, however strongly, is not on itself a personal attack -
“You are X and Y”, “You always do this stupid/annoying thing” is.
Because you’re not attacking the opinion, you are attacking the person’s characters and actions. Of course, if you say “this opinion is idiotic”, then it’s an attack because an idiotic opinion can only be held by an idiot, so again it’s disparaging to the person.

(Am I womansplaining?)

So let’s not pretend we don’t get what the rules are about, by saying that they are too general.

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Here is a “cheat sheet” for Roberts Rules of Order, the rules by which political and other types of debates have been carried out since the 1800s in the United States.

To further simplify . . . don’t these classic rules say we should speak slowly, listen carefully, discuss thoughtfully, and agree to disagree when necessary?

Since Internet discussions have always “anonymized” participants, and since there is a temptation in such discussions to assume that anything “unknown” has got to be bad rather than good, AND since the likelihood of disagreement with the weight of physical presence is non-existent, it is up to each of us to encourage our better angels and shackle our worse angels.

Can we do it? I see it being done all the time.

It’s called being guided by universal values, and I believe there are some.

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This is true, but I feel like even without these clues, you can understand the general disposition of someone you’ve talked to for enough time, even though it’s just written text. There are things I know I can freely say or not say to certain people here. It’s just a feeling, but it’s usually right.

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I resisted the button!
Yes!! :face_with_hand_over_mouth::joy:

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Honestly, I think your missing the point, what you deem obvious and clear for all isn’t, unless you have a homogenious group. Politics is broad, per definition. I get the purpose and meaning of the rules, still that doesn’t change my point. I tend try to be precise in how I formulate myself, this tends often to be misinterperted as hostility, even around here. Here, in this thread, we are arguing different point of vews, just politicians and political parties. Just because we don’t use the labels doesn’t mean they aren’t conceptually the same. You just stated your set of values in this matter and I have done so as well and they don’t align. I have also clearly sourced my stuff. Thus I fully comprahend and simply dissagree versus ‘doesn’t seem to be getting it’.

They are too general.

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Generation by generation, human beings struggle to love and be loved, to understand and be understood, to be safe and to keep safe, and generation by generation human being succeed wildly and fail miserably.

And generation by generation, the infinite variety and beauty of human beings persists.

I am in some ways here on the Discussion Board because, after WWII and after the Korean War, non-Asian Americans who had powerful military and civilian experiences in Asia, and who had a deep respect for the cultures they interacted with, came back and tried to share those experiences with their families and friends and their larger culture.

Some people accepted the gift, and some did not. Some people were grateful, and some were not.

By the time I was offered the gift, my experience of the gift and the origins of the gift were separated by ten to twenty years. I opened the gift and experienced it in the context of a family that strictly taught the evils of racism and the beauty of the entire human community as beings made to reflect God’s goodness and wisdom (even if they had a hard time doing it).

As a result, when I watched the movies South Pacific, Flower Drum Song, Tea House of the August Moon, and The King and I on Sunday evenings on CBS and NBC, I was overwhelmed by beauty in cinematography and costuming and dance; I recognized bits of myths and legends and fairy stories read to me as a child; I longed to play with the children I saw who looked like kids in my neighborhood; I envied scenes of multi-generational families and neighbors because I had “only” two sisters, and members of my parents’ generation and their children and grandchildren lived hundreds of miles away.

I loved all the “Fasians” I saw (fake Asians) with all my heart. I didn’t know then what it meant to stereotype people and expect them to perform in simplistic and insulting ways, and I didn’t understand that, in the 1950s and 1960s, the only way “new” and “different” movies got made was to convince a major American actor or actress to star in it.

I was baffled that Marlon Brando was playing the role of a Japanese man in Teahouse of the August Moon.

I ridiculed the idea of Lee J. Cobb playing the King of Siam in Anna and the King (precursor to Yul Brynner’s The King and I as well as Chow Yun Fat’s Anna and the King).

I was very puzzled that not all the actors and actresses in Flower Drum Song were Chinese, but it made me sooo happy to watch it!

There is a Chinese restaurant in Rochester called Grand Super Buffet with all kinds of items–General Tso’s Chicken, lovely dumplings, sushi, pizza, chocolate pudding. A smorgasbord of delight. Not elegant, not fussy, but a place you want to go and spend five hours with friends.

Hollywood’s Asia was like that for me.

The movie that stays in my mind as being the tastiest dish is Flower Drum Song. I suppose it’s because at that time that I ws taking art lessons in water color, and the opening graphics riveted my attention. Indeed, the whole movie was a visual feast.

In retrospect, all of those movies have “issues,” but they all taught me truth and gave me beauty.

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True, very true, but in this particular context, some of the more general meanings of concepts/words can be eliminated, and the meaning can be narrowed down to what is applicable in this particular environment. Because one can “reasonably infer” (as they say in legalese) what the purpose is, and why the heads of Rakuten Viki would not want certain topics.
Suppose we lived at the time before Newton. The law of gravity hadn’t been formulated in a scientific way, and there was no proof of it. Yet people, based on past experience, lived assuming that if you throw something it will fall down on the ground and not go upwards. It’s a “working assumption”, making daily life easier, just as the fact that the sun rises every morning from the east. Okay, the example is very simplistic, I’m fully aware of that.
But what I’m trying to say is that we have here a difference between a precise, scientific definition (which, if I understood correctly, is what you seem to desire) and a “working definition”, understood by most people, which is more practical and useful in a day-to-day situation.
Yes, if you are signing a contract for a credit card or a loan or to undertake a job, you need all the fine print, all the possible eventualities written out in detail, because there may be legal consequences, and money is involved. It’s important and necessary.
But rules on a place like Viki have to be read by the users, and if a text is too long and detailed, people don’t bother to read it - that’s a sad truth. Even short as they are now, many don’t bother to read them. That’s why these rules assume that most people (not all, apparently) understand what’s being meant even by using broad strokes.
The same happens in all internet fora. There are rules, and wherever something falls between the cracks of the rules, and it’s not 100% clear, then the moderators have the last word. That’s the case here. Viki will review, and judge whether one has crossed the boundary or not. We may agree or disagree with the ruling, but it’s their playing field, they are the landlord, so they get to decide.

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I’m not looking for scientific, just precise enough, sections, as I originally mentioned are. There are practical examples where I as an example tend to fall into the grey zone of the flimsy rules. A short while back I posted on the a picture of me reading a book on the highlight of the day thread which got a general discussion around the picture going involving elements of history, language and religion. Or other threads when I talked about living in Finland compared to someone else elsewhere. Touching on ‘social benefits’, universal healthcare etc. that exist in Finland, but might or not exist elsewhere. Which are de-facto political, but that nowone seems to come hammer me about. So that’s ok, but history is not and thus too political. This **** doesn’t make proper sense. So mentioning certain words, without politics etc, such as ‘God’ may get you hammered for having used a bad word, even talking about something that commonly would be classified as non-political, but technically still is, such as history, may as well get you hammered also. But not when talking about/mentioning actual political policies? Or otherwise not mentioning, but strongly implying?

Edit:
Not to mention actual kdrama discussions, fact that I correctly noticed it as wierd that what I would classify as domestic violence is common in kdrama, mothers slapping their children etc. It doesn’t take away from the kdrama, since the fact it’s different has it’s appeal. Though mentioning this may get you flack.

These sorts of things.

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But you didn’t get flack from actual Viki staff members, right?
Users may have their own boundaries and sensitivities, but since nobody official bothered you, then it’s all right, no? They do monitor Discussions.

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This is my point, this place is so toxic that ppl are just in case going at each other, due to said ambiguity. Everyone fears the hammer so they hammer others and/or they self sensor. If the rules where clearer, ppl could more easily tell the difference and ppl like me would avoid the grief. Now when go check the rules, they might have been right or not in scolding me for innocently posting a picture etc.

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I’ve been the target of toxicity as well, and not once or twice, in the past five years. Yes, it’s upsetting, but I don’t think it’s peculiar to Viki. This place is as toxic as the real world: the same percentage of wonderful people, nice people, indifferent/neutral people, slightly unpleasant people and assholes.
They won’t change because of better worded rules. It’s just who they are.
I’ve learned to completely ignore the last category. Once I understand they belong to it, never reply to them again, never engage in conversation again. This has saved me a lot of grief, so I’m passing on the tip for what it’s worth.

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It’s not the ppl who are, it’s not like they necesseraly try to be. Also I’m not a member on every forum out there but I’m here so here is where I can ‘maybe’ affect some positive change. I feel the rules contribute to this, rules shouldn’t do that, they should clarify when something is unclear, you should know what is ok to post or not, not ‘live in fear’ of what might happen. Those ppl that are genuine a******s they tend to be it regardless and I’m not looking to change that. I think I have made my position quite clear so far.

I don’t believe anymore that the solution can be just to take unnecessery **** and then go on and bury our heads in the sand.

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I look forward to your continued positive input here, and I do not think I am alone :slightly_smiling_face::blush::slightly_smiling_face:

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I don’t think we have to “live in fear”… I’ve been here about a year now, and I once posted something classified “religious” and had my post taken down. I thought “Oh, I shouldn’t do that anymore.” and tried not to next time. Someone once wrote a really, really hurtful post directed at me. I cried, flagged the person, and got over it.
I still don’t try to mold my posts to conform to everybody’s liking, because I know there’s always going to be people who don’t agree with me and if I tried to satisfy everyone I wOULD “live in fear”. So I just write whatever while trying to be as polite as I can. You don’t get kicked off Viki for minor, rare flagged posts, so it’s okay.

Overall, though, I think Discussions is WAYYYYY less toxic than most other forums. I visit this platform more than the others because this is somewhere I usually have fun discussing and fangirling with people I’ve actually come to love. The internet is a really scary place and this is one of the few sites I say whatever is on my mind.

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Yeah put that in citations, didn’t find a better way to say it in english. But yeah, getting labeled or punished for something that’s objectivly nothing bad isn’t nice, and once a precedent has been set in your mind, I at least start to factor that into the decision and spending lot’s of time if I should of posted x or not etc. etc. When what I posted was a picture or something essentially not bad. But potentially in someones mind against the rules. I thus don’t mean I’m hiding in the corner out of terror, just to clarify :slight_smile:

I agree. :slight_smile:

You should.

I find being shut down, especially in an example mentioned above quite offensive, when you don’t try to hurt someone.

Thanks, though I feel my tone hasn’t been too peace-love-and-unicorn-y so far in this discussion. :smiley:

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App Comments Are Allowed With Viki Subscription.

Desktop Comments Are Not Allowed, Unless A Disqus Account Is Created.

Is This Permanent?

Posted in comments of show below.

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