In historical series I always see “nyang” as a money unit. And yet if I search online, I only find yang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Korean_currencies and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_yang. Wikipedia says
Before 1892, the main currency of Korea was the mun, a denomination based on the Chinese cash (Chinese: 文 wén).
Just before the yang was introduced, a small number of coins denominated in hwan (환/圜) and mun (문/文) were minted (1 won = 1000 mun). It is unclear whether these coins circulated. The 1 won and 5 yang coins were equal in size, containing 416 grains of silver.
The yang (양/兩) was the currency of Korea between 1892 and 1902. It was subdivided into 10 jeon (전/錢), 100 bun (분/分) and 5 yang = 1 hwan (환/圜).
The mintage and circulation of modern currency began during the last years of the old Korean Empire as a result of contact with the West. Around the time of the trial adoption of the gold standard in 1901, gold and silver coins were in circulation along with some Japanese bank notes.
The yang was replaced by the won at a rate of 1 won = 5 yang…[/QUOTE]
How is that possible? I saw nyang in “Jackpot”, which was before 1728.
The only reference to nyang I can see is in a book:
in this other book:
they mention a proverb
.[QUOTE]mal-man chal ha myon chon nyang pit-to kam-nunda (One can repay a 1000 nyang of money with appropriate words)
worded differently in another website as
Malhanaro cheonnyangbit gapneunda (말하나로 천냥빚 갚는다).
Repaying a 1000-Nyang (old Korean currency unit) with one word…[/QUOTE]
There are other references too, in Google books, I won’t tire you quoting all of them. But why isn’t there no mention in official English-language reference sources?
I finally came to a more official source.
But then I remembered an interesting discussion within the “Jackpot - The King’s Gambler” team discussion. I’m sorry I didn’t keep the names of the original posters, and I’m too lazy right now to go and find it - it was a very looong team discussion.
[QUOTE]As a matter of linguistic history, the initial ㄹ (“L”) was pronounced until the last few hundred years (after the time of our drama, according to 두음법칙 = 頭音法則, “Initial Sound Law”). There is evidence for the change of initial ㄹ to ㄴ (“N”) as early as the 15th century: 來日 래일 → 내일), but the ㄴ was apparently retained until the latter half of the 18th century, when we suddenly see spellings like 이 for 니. So both Lee Seong Gye and Nee In Jwa would have sounded the consonant (differently, but they both had it). But as you know (I’m saying all this for our non-Korean colleagues), modern Koreans pronounce all these names “Ee” (without the Chinese “Y”). The romanizations with “L,” “Rh” (Syngman Rhee), and “Y” are aimed more at maintaining the connection with the Chinese source words than at reflecting the modern pronunciation.
Be that as it may, there’s no escaping the fact that the name of the dynasty is routinely spelled “Yi” in the West.
I think north korea went against the sonorant law so their Yi (이) is actually Lee (리), retroactively closer to their sino-root. am not sure but I heard there’s no 이 in North Korea only 리.
In South Korea there are still instances the sonorant law gets an override by human anatomical assimilation rule. There are times the sonorant law is too awkward for the body to produce, the example I always think of is counting in korean many ppl in South Korea still count the way before the sonorant law is applied.
일리(ri)삼사오륙 (ryook) <-- against initial sound law (sonorant law) but often adopted
vs 일이(yi)삼사오육 (yook) <-- applied sonorant law (but often not practiced in speech)
Northern spellings such as 로동 신문 are generally just spellings; they pronounce 노동 신문 just like the South (but I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that some local dialects near the Chinese border retain the ㄹ pronunciation).
As for the example you cite, the Initial Sound Law does not apply when the sound is not initial. In compounds such as 16 십륙 → “심뉵” or 미스리, the last syllable is “protected” by the preceding one and the ㄹ survives. I think you’ll find that when Koreans say “1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6” quickly, they use the compounding pronunciation, but when they pause between words and treat each as a separate one, the ISL applies.
when we count 1,2,3,4…, 2 comes after 1 so it sounds natural to say 일리 since 리 is not the very first word. At least that’s how it is to me.
yes makes total sense! i have encountered a few ethnic Koreans who said what I would have pronounced ‘yi, yul,yuk, etc’ as ‘li, lul, lyuk’ but not sure where their hometowns were actually.
This is also generational. My mommy, daddy and other old people who are reaching senior citizen status all pronounce Korean differently than the younger Koreans such as the 에 and 애 difference. It doesn’t matter the hometown because this is true in immigrant and native Koreans too. n <20. sampling was done via nyc transit system.
In the 60s I believe the Kim dynasty passed pronunciation reforms ==> infamous North Korean accent. The senior citizens who grew up pre-pronunciation reform sound like South Koreans! Isn’t that interesting?
Oh and 두음법칙 screwed some people overnight making 류 ryoo into 유 yoo overnight and 라 into 나. I’ve met some 류’s who were very adamant that they’re 류’s not yoo
I think this has/van be overridden but it caused them legal headaches as the legal doc names no longer matched (ref:newpaper articles in Korean).
What I got from a Korean linguist was that yes, before the war many northern dialects did have 류, 로동, etc., but the boundaries were inconsistent and variable, as might be expected in a unified country. After the war, the ROK standardized its language around the Seoul dialect (유, 노동) and the DPRK standardized around the Pyongyang dialect (류, 로동), and dialects that were “on the wrong side” of the border were made to conform to the two national standards.
If we go back to the time of our drama (before the Musin Revolt in 1728), there would have been regional variation between 李 = 리 (farther north) and 니 (farther south), so depending on where he was from (and also on how proficient he was in Chinese), our man 李麟佐 might have pronounced his name “Lee In Jwa” or “Nee In Jwa.” But the initial consonant was not lost anywhere in Korea until the 18th century, so he certainly would not have said “Ee In Jwa” (or “Yi In Jwa” as some people prefer to spell it).
If we go farther back to 1392 when the dynasty was founded, neither of these sound changes had begun, so 李成桂 (Western spelling Yi Seong Gye) would surely have pronounced his name 리성계 (Lee Seong Gye), retaining the original Chinese consonant. [/QUOTE]
So I concluded that nyang and yang are one and the same thing, pronounced differently, so that now they are even spelled differently. (And that it possibly was lyang before nyang)
But the time frame is not yet clear. The Albany University source says nyang was from the 17th century onwards (1600-1700), which is also consistent with the Jackpot setting. But Wikipedia says the yang was only from the late 19th century, and for a very short time, from 1892 to 1902. So is Wikipedia wrong? Or is yang something else after all?
I would be grateful if someone could confirm!
And, if nyang is yang, is the Wikipedia conversion correct? 1 nyang/yang = 5 won?
I need this for a historical film I’m translating