Should viki's paid subbers be overwriting volunteers

I was really surprised :open_mouth: and in the same time, so angry :rage: after reading this topic. The paid subber why needed to overwrite someone translation, to have 100% for episode 11, if she/he saw that there are subbs??? I don’t really understand this thing. If they want to help the team, then they have to try to complete the blank segments, not the completed ones. And the other thing, it would be important to inform the English team, that they want to work on one of the parts. Like this, I think the subbing will be more faster. If the paid subbers overwrite all the time this subtitles, then it will slower the subbers, Chief Editors, English Editors work. :worried:

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This is just the answer to everything…

Meaning that the volunteers are being slowly reduced in number because of the time constraints and paid staff. They get snippy when I tell them I can’t find members because most leave because there is nothing for them to do (presubbed dramas included).

The beginning of Viki was a fun experience for us all. No constraints, no repercussions. Now, the volunteers are being treated as staff with deadlines but we get paid in pennies and freebies. Then if we don’t do their bidding, we get hands slapped and they send in their “army.”

It won’t be long before Viki becomes the next DramaFever.

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I’m just a small Polish translator/moderator and for less than a year have been part of this community. For many years I’ve been watching Asian dramas, always with English subtitles, and every time was amazed at how fast subtitles for each episode were created, but only when I became part of this community I’ve understood how much blood, sweat, tears, and mostly their time every segmenter, moderator, subtitler, and editor have to sacrifice so I could watch my favorite shows. These overwriting subtitles are waste of time for volunteers, who don’t get paid or even recognition from Viki. No wonder so many volunteers abandon this community.

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This has been a continuous problem over the years for subbers. @vikicommunity must create a function (just like segmenting) that only 1 vikier can work on 1 part at a time and this will avoid overwriting other subbers that are working on the same part of the video.

I know jo_p66. She is a very nice and helpful person. My guess… it was an order she received from the higher ups. She is only a worker that does what she is paid for. Don’t be harsh on her.

Viki must establish a ‘public’ fixed time (that the English team membes of a channel know beforehand) when their paid subbers are expected to start subbing to avoid future confusion.

Hope viki doesn’t end up like dramafever either…:raised_hands:

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It’s not just Viki, though. Other mainstream providers follow the same logic: quick subs in gibberish.
After so many battles on the quality field, the “subz plzzz” beggars won.

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@cerejacult, I agree that the big problem with this and many other issues that have surfaced lately within the community is lack of communication.

For all those who are ready to condemn @jo_p66, do you know her, or have you worked with her? For that matter, do you know any of the paid Kor-Eng translators? I have worked with @jo_p66 and found her to be not only competent but also very pleasant to work with. Also, as a Kor-Eng translator myself, I don’t quite agree with the assessment that the quality of translations done by paid translators is poor. There are some who are not as skilled and that’s why TEs are needed for all pre-subbed shows, including those that come pre-subbed from the content provider.

As to the time pressure put on by the staff, would you rather that the impatient viewers leave Viki and subscribe to other streaming services? As we all know, Viki no longer is the only choice for Asian content. If there are paid translators available, should they just sit idle and wait for their turn or should they jump in and help? Obviously, they should first communicate with the CM and/or the English team, to assist not hinder the progress of translation.

I think we all need to realize that Viki is powered by the volunteers, not run by the volunteers. I am actually shocked that a business model that relies on the free labor of volunteers has survived this long. If Viki is to survive and thrive in this competitive market, we all have to learn to communicate better with each other so that we can all feel good about contributing in our own way.

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Jo_p66 and other paid subbers are caught in the middle I guess. Just like the community team is caught between the community and the higher ups.

I know she just does her job as she’s told by her higher ups. And maybe she doesn’t have the power to say otherwise. I mean I don’t want her to loose her job over this but… I still find it disrespectful and rude to overwrite subs or start subbing where you can see someone is already subbing that part while there where most likely other parts that where free to take.

But yes being caught in the middle sucks.

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If the subs of the other person are done after you entered the editor, you don’t see it unless you refresh.

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yet again, pointless and futile since no one from Viki is listening… sigh… -deleted-

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This disrespect on the part of this paid subber has no words.
This clearly shows that Viki is completely forgetting his motto ofA fan page made by fans, and although the competition to acquire the licenses has become fiercer, they are hiring people from who knows where they don’t respect what the fans have built.
Instead of looking for paid translators on the outside, Viki’s staff should look for them on the site.

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I don’t want to single out one person here because I’m assuming they’re following orders. I do agree that it’s disheartening to see where it’s been going. I’m not surprised, working in post-production, and the demand is killing. Viki used to be a place to relax and that’s why I came back a couple of years ago, out of love for the community and its languages.The viewer has become spoiled, they say, I think the puppeteer has been spoiled instead. I’m already blind for the ‘why isn’t it subbed’ comments, but now it’s as if Viki’s saying, ‘we agree’. We all have lives, are in different chapters, let alone timezones, and are still giving it 200%. Spending time on details, doing research, coming together, and loving it… But here I am left with the question: what if we stop loving it? Because obviously we aren’t here for the perks here and there.

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There are countless channels, fully licenced, that are not getting any subs for a very long time. Why doesn’t Viki send its bots and its paid subbers there?

Lots of channels are not accessible worldwide, even with a Pass, therefore the volunteers can’t access them. Why doesn’t Viki send its bots and its paid subbers there?

In my eyes, it’s 100% Viki’s mismanagement.
The paid subber does what the employer says. The problem is with the employer.

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@jadecloud88, I think my statement was taken out of context. I believe I stressed the importance of communication.

Anyway, can we stop this “us” and “them”, not only on this issue but others as well, and somehow find a solution to co-exist and cooperate with each other? For a while now, I’ve been trying really hard to stay positive but it is getting harder and harder. If things do not improve soon, I think it’s time for me to say bye.

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I feel very sorry that your time is wasted like that.

I wonder how many and how long volunteers will accept such kind of behaviour.

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A little shocked by this topic (people are shameless) but not even surprised by the viki staff. Each year is full of surprises and sadly they are not great. Damned of them. She was aware of your presence on the subtitle editor and doesn’t bother to have a good cooperation. What a waste of your work and love for this voluntering. If I was at your place, i would be enraged ! Fighting. I’m supporting you.

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The Viki Staff should pay more attentions to things like that. It shouldn’t happen, never!

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I didn’t mean to quote your statement as an out of context example. I just wanted to emphasize that it wasn’t about Viki having paid translators or letting them sit idle while no one is working on what’s needed to be done. :peace_symbol:

Yes, you did stress communication and I fully agree with you. All that has been happening for a long time is the lack of communication.

Indeed. I fully agree. This would be a step in the right direction. May I add, with respect and regard as well. I have been waiting for this to happen for a long, long time…

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I’m speechless!!!

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@choitrio
I have worked cooperatively with the paid subber for years and I hope she did not intentionally do this but she was under the gun to complete the episode by a set deadline which hasn’t been shared with us. She is one of the more competent subbers hired by viki and to be preferred over many others. [ However her competence has not prevented her from using both “Congessman” and “Senator” in the same scene to refer to a character who is a member of the National Assembly in more than one episode despite my corrections until I wrote to her directly because viki doesn’t pay them to review edits.] From time to time I’ve also written to her about translating legal terms. I was told years ago I was not to communicate with the paid subbers but at some point I guess viki staff got tired of relaying my messages and told me I could pm them directly.
Yes, I agree the polite thing would have been for me to pm the paid subber, but after repeated incidents of receiving an apology many days later for “accidents”and then being “confused” and doing the same thing, I thought why is the onus on me to be polite? As @mfever pointed out she too has seen the paid subbers working when she was actively subbing. Why should volunteers take a backseat to paid subbers? When I find a volunteer has accidentally overwritten another subber’s work, I have directed the over-writer to delete each of her subs which over-wrote someone else. Could I do that with a paid subber? Even when a paid subber started subbing as soon as segmenting was done, having come 24 hours before her assigned time, her subs remain, not to be replaced by volunteer’s work. The excuse was that she was confused and didn’t realize the episode had just been uploaded.

As I said in the introductory post I tried to post a note about what happened in Team Discussion but got a canned message that viki was “moderating” aka censoring, my post and the post was deleted by the system.
I think the over writing is a direct consequence of a viki mindset to devalue volunteer contributions and to prevent volunteer contributions. Every subtitle written by a paid subber takes away an opportunity for a volunteer.

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I love Viki so much and am so grateful and happy for all the fantastic people I have met here and become friends with here. It’s a community I value highly. The camaraderie I feel when a team I’m on is making each episode of a drama the best it can be, through a good understanding of history or specific knowledge of law, medicine, corporations, military and more, is so exciting and wonderful! Many heads make for better translations. It’s just a fact, and it’s a fact that sets us apart from companies like Ne**liks. I’ve been a huge cheerleader of Viki, as it has always been so different and superior because of the community subtitling and the many languages that can be made available to viewers.

Paid subtitling snuck up on us. Having paid subbers used to be reserved for those dramas that we just couldn’t get done, were abandoned or understaffed for whatever reason.

In recent years, nasty comments and complaints from viewers seem to have driven the continually reduced time before paid subbers arrive. Now we’re down to barely a day from upload on live-airing dramas. Though I get that Viki has to compete with the “big guys,” I am finally at a point where I feel anxious that if things continue on the trajectory they seem to be, live-airing dramas will end up being pre-subbed, English teams will become a thing of the past, and we’ll then be providing the same mediocre English subtitles other companies offer. Even if it would still be possible to subtitle from English into many different languages, the mediocre result would be similar for them.

There, I said it. I’ve been holding that in for months. I also doubt Viki Community Staff are enjoying this situation any more than we are (though there are probably things they could do to improve this lemonade).

I don’t hate the paid subbers, even though I feel they shouldn’t be here if we are a “community subtitling” site, and I feel irked that there are so many instances of them showing up when a volunteer team is in full swing and doing a great job on their own and then just zapping through, many times without looking at team notes or matching flashbacks, sometimes not checking to see who is working in a part before entering, and repeatedly subbing unreleased OST, regardless of being asked not to. Subber morale is damaged as much by this invasion as by mean comments. We have a code of conduct for our VCVs, so we tend to expect the same behavior from the paid subtitlers. Without a doubt, I believe they are not always well-vetted or adequately trained before being sent into subtitle editors to work with community volunteer teams. And considering we shouldn’t have paid subbers at all, their presence ends up feeling like an even bigger violation for many of us.

Rarely do I come out and say anything in forums, and I’ve held in these thoughts about what I see happening to English teams for a long time because I don’t want to be the source of baseless rumors and misinformation. I honestly don’t know what Rakuten/Viki plans as their long-term goal for volunteer English teams and community subtitling. It’s just that I’m finally starting to feel really concerned about what direction the oversight of English subtitling will take, given the recent push for speed in live-airing dramas.

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