There is no point in Segmenting challenges as you can’t even make the necessary segments in the first place. To some extent, you could solve this by combining (and therefore piling up some subtitles), but you told us to refrain from it. So this is basically just a bad joke here. Furthermore, you won’t do 3 segments a day either, as you’re supposed to finish the part immediately. And it won’t take “15 minutes” either, it’s 1-3 hours. You guys honestly never really considered our work reality - that’s why you can submit weird surveys asking about editor jobs that don’t even exist in the first place.
What’s the point of challenges you can’t really participate in? There’s none. These sorts of things are simply a slap in the face of those contributors who segment here on Viki for about zero rewards. You never considered finding a solution for this, instead you slap them even more. This isn’t even funny, it’s just sad to confirm all the time how few you even know. So nobody will be able to say “Oh, it’s great that you might have noticed now” as this has been going on for quite a while. Furthermore, from the statement, I highly doubt that anything has been acknowledged by now. It’s just what you write when you’re embarrassed but still missed the point completely. Whether you want people to submit segments every 3 days or every day doesn’t matter, it’s far from reality, it doesn’t care about the system that has been ■■■■■■■■ over segmenters for a long time now! They work hard to become segmenters in 6-9 months to be used as a punching bag.
People don’t just want more badges, they want a proper working environment first!
I’ll be honest, I’m not really looking forward to this challenge. It doesn’t really seem realistic. As @xylune already noted, my first thought was-- why is the minimum 3 segments when a segmenter is typically supposed to complete their part in one go or drop it so other segmenters can finish? It feels like its guidelines weren’t really written with segmenting projects in mind. Not to mention, I can think of a number of A&C jobs I’ve done where “3 segments” was essentially an entire episode’s length. And in a project where we’re required to adjust only with no combines allowed, we’re basically at the mercy of whether or not the presubs didn’t include music as to whether we get credit at all.
The nice thing about Subathon is that it’s something you just work towards automatically. This feels like it’s an extra hassle without much payoff as I don’t really see what it accomplishes, I don’t think many people will get much out of being told to like posts in a thread-- myself included. I feel like if I were to participate I would be forcing myself to do so and I wouldn’t really engage with the post at all.
I do like the idea of a SegSubtember event but I don’t really think this is an effective way to accomplish the goal. I already felt like the Subathon was in dire need of a visible tracker for contributors but this feels like it just isn’t really implemented at all.
I personally feel that these changes would keep the community oriented flavor but make it a little easier for contributors that aren’t so keen on the daily post requirement:
Automatic participation for meeting the daily requirements
Weekly post requirements, with something more community oriented like a weekly question-- submit a favorite part, hardest segment, etc. or writing a recap of the parts you did that week and how it went
Remove the 3 segments suggestion for a set amount of either type of contributions (6 as intended?)
Clarify in the rules that the guidelines for quality segmenting and subtitling still applies
I feel that by requiring daily entries but reducing the posting requirement to a weekly basis, you encourage a more thoughtful post per week and can also potentially get people back into the spirit of the event to start another streak as each week rolls by.
… posting to the community, sounds that there is “one place to post”, but that does not reflect reality …
The hardship does not surface from Seg-Subatones but rather from the deficit of attention the volunteer work receives, this starts with communication from Viki staff to “volunteer staff” and does not end with addressing technical issues …
@xylune You are right, it is nice to add some fun, but for volunteers who have been deprived of the possibility to contribute for weeks and/or months, it is just discouraging.
@brendas
Over the years, when Viki gave up on the comment sections by outsourcing it and later decreasing it, open communication on profiles and the possibility to “store and/or publish” information for the volunteers and the teams, or other interested people. The movement of encouraging other volunteers disappeared from the comment sections out of the “public eye” and to other “places” with more advantages in communicating and sharing information instruments like kakao talk, google, d i s c o r d and so on …
Making the “workflow” harder on volunteers and for some even impossible, volunteers silently ask themselves over the years, when will Viki give up openly the volunteer idea instead of just taking away opportunities from volunteers to participate one by one, without addressing “the elephant in the room”.
Umm… what? When did Viki introduce this rule? I refuse to sub three million flash-subs per episode. That’s totally unprofessional.
Why does Viki follow NX in everything, thinking they are some industry standard. What does NX really know about subbing? Nothing.
You should hear the comments from my countrymen, comparing NX subs to the ones on the national TV. NX are a joke! The segments are automatically generated and only slightly modified. It’s horrible.
This rule exists only on shows presubbed in several languages (those presubbed in both English, Spanish, Portuguese and French), from what I heard it’s because Viki staff said if we combine we can’t keep the presubs of other languages than English so they don’t allow combine segments on shows presubbed in several languages anymore lately. It happens on a few new projects.
Still, it doesn’t mean there will be gaps between segments, but it means we can’t combine very short segments on these shows, so it’ll be harder to read everything without pausing the video…
At first, there weren’t a lot of them, but lately there are more and more.
I personnally don’t like this at all.
As I said to some CM and CS already, I wouldn’t be proud of my work if I can’t adjust and combine segments properly on presubbed shows.
Working on presubbed shows is already a headache but if we can’t even adjust properly the segments and combine them when needed, then what’s the point in trying to get quality? We already don’t get a lot of contributions by adjusting and combining segments, but with these “no combine” projects it’s even worse.
That’s why I don’t want to work on these projects knowing I can’t do my best to have the best quality of segments possible. With time, I started to get used to not have lots of contributions when doing a lot of adjusting, but knowing even if I adjust segments I can’t combine the short ones so the segments are as good as possible… Even if I respect a lot volunteers who still try to adjust these segments the best way possible, I won’t do it myself. It’s just wasting time I could use to do something better.
If it means in a few months all new projects come presubbed in several languages and we can’t combine anymore on any project, then at this moment, I’ll just stop working on new projects as segmenter. And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only segmenter thinking like this unfortunately.
It was somewhat “solved” by changing the segments artificially and paste in repeated subtitles into segments. Still, this might be confusing to volunteers. We have this in recent shows such as “Legend of Anle” if I remember correctly.
Anyway, you sometimes do x parts of a drama as segmenter and get 4-5 segments at most. As others mentioned, it’s over if Viki decided to segment songs etc. themselves and didn’t leave out some things. This might be different if they counted segment adjustments the same as edited subtitles, but they don’t. Everyone knows these changes are obvious in the editor logs, so they could change things to motivate volunteers, but they don’t bother to. Instead, they pretend that you can actually take part in some challenge as a segmenter even though that’s nearly impossible unless you’re a full time hardcore segmenter.
Aside from the fact that you’re having issues if you go on a 20-hour flight or something, it’s somewhat manageable as a subtitler or editor.
Who participated in what? Did you ever try to segment nowadays? Probably not. Instead, you guys exploit the volunteers’ determination to provide good work. As you can see on rating websites, people like dramas coming to Viki because of quality subtitles and readable segments. Instead of making it easier for us, it gets harder every day to maintain things this way. Some don’t even dare to open their mouth in fear of Viki labeling them as “unkind volunteers unfit to become CM.” There are people segmenting every day and doing it as some sort of full time job, and all they receive are more slaps in the face. First hardly any unsubbed things, then adjustments don’t count, then you tell us not to combine segments… what’s next?
You lack basic research. If I want to do a challenge, I have to know how the community works. This was mentioned repetitively during subathons etc. in the past. Nothing changed, things just became more difficult and unrewarding. Not to forget big communities such as the Spanish or Portuguese one. They hardly have any subtitling projects left, not everyone can work as an Editor - and they are supposed to do their parts within a few hours. How will these people even be able to participate? Will you provide them with tons of unsubbed and unsegmented shows in September? I doubt it.
Do you think people will feel motivated to participate if they know from reality it’s impossible to achieve anything? Or will they just feel like Viki treats them badly, so they should consider stop volunteering? Eventually, you can enlighten us.
If you can’t even properly participate, there is no point to move the debate into the faraway future. Not like anyone bothered to address those for the last months or years in the first place. So no, there is no reason to hold on to anything - you exclude people from the very beginning here. These “oh, but if you don’t have bread, just eat cake” discussion is going nowhere. You only come up with some event for medium-sized and small communities and dare to state it includes segmenters and everyone. It does not. This cake is a lie.
Basically, it’s none of my concern either if some student or a full time employee wastes their time coming up with pointless events. In your case, I’d either think of an event not caring about the amount of contributions, you change Viki’s current release style, or you count segmenters’ contributions differently. Subathons are already bad in that regard, but this is even worse.
I wouldn’t use the word “solved” here. I mean, I love the CE who came up with this idea for thinking of the segmenters and it does improve the result on the viewers’ end, but it also takes the segmenters even further away from their original job. Hardcore copy-pasting is draining. Should that become the only way for those of us who involved time and energy into going through the segmenting academy to earn enough contributions to maintain our status, let alone participate in any events? The only ones who can “solve” this problem are the ones who created it: Viki. But unfortunately for us, as far as Viki is concerned, the volunteers’ needs have always been and will always be inferior to those of the viewers.
You are missing some most basic things @brendas
One of the most basic thing is that we cannot even segment because there are no proper segmenting projects anymore. I also quit doing A&C at some point because I was spending more time checking everything then segging it myself and it didn’t even show in my contributions count. Also a segger does not just make 3 segments a day. Normally a segger would make between 50 to 80 segments minimum a day when they have 1 project and 1 part on that project. But that is not possible with A&C.
I’m on Viki for 14 years and this is really one of the most stupid ideas, looking at how Viki is now, I saw in all those years.
Or is this a method to try have those unsegged variety shows, segged and subbed? Well there is a reason why they are not segged and why most people do not like to segment it. The tools Viki has are not good enough for variety shows, we told Viki that many times and this is the result. I suggest to have the variety shows presegged and subbed and leave the dramas to us instead. But I think many English subbers have left Viki by now.
I must say that I felt it was a bit sad this weekend when I got a message that an episode was released… and had to tell myself that I had to wait until Viki had segmented and made subtitles before we segmenters had the rights to work. What’s the point of having us or sending the message if you don’t really want/need us… I didn’t have time this weekend but I will work on it as I promised the CS to do so…
I have loved working on the different subathons but the September version doesn’t sound like something I’m interested in. Yes I’m a user of Duolingo and other similar apps but I don’t think it works for Viki, Viki and Duolingo are totally different and should be.
Does Viki still need or want volunteers in the future, if not then you are on the right path…
Since you mentioned Duolingo… You cannot really compare Duolingo’s learning method to subbing on Viki and this Subathon version.
The language learning apps work totally different to what we’re doing here on Viki.
Besides: VIKI needs US to sell their subtitles in ~20+ languages, not the other way around!
So is this Subathon created to force others to participate because otherwise the person itself won’t get a badge? Do you really think teams here need more social pressure than they’re already having yet?
There are hundreds of problems that Viki has not yet solved. Requests from volunteers for meaningful changes are overheard. You constantly come up with new ideas that no one needs or wants.
Stop it!
If you don’t need us anymore, tell us.
Now you come with a survey about a new structure of our profile page! Why? Are the problems you cause with your ideas not enough for you to think about how to create new problems?
We already can’t work properly because of the message ‘429 Too Many Requests’. Solve the existing problems and stop creating new ones.
I’ve sometimes had the idea that, as a counterweight to the constant urge for quantity, it would be nice if we’d get badges for working on Viki X days in a row, regardless of what exactly we did and how much. This new challenge was not exactly what I had in mind. It still sounds too competitive, especially when we are obligated to make everything public. Contribution counts can be very misleading. Some work hard for few contributions, others earn huge amounts of contributions creating crap and everything in between. And all of them get judged solely based on the amount of contributions that are visibly on their names. What we really need is appreciation and respect for our efforts and the quality of the results of those efforts. Badges handed solely based on making as many contributions as possible in a set amount of time only distract volunteers from their actual job: segmenting/subbing/editing the show(s) that are in their care the best they can.
Exactly. With language learning, it’s useful to come every day to improve your language skills and not forget what you have learned previously. On Viki, we just need the room to do our job without obstacles.
Sounds too much like homework to me. Are we supposed to vividly remember everything we did in the past week? Or write it all down, which would still mean every day, just not publicly?
I think it would be better to make the Discussion part of the challenge voluntary.
I hope with “either type,” you mean including adjusting timing/extensions?
I have to spare the same time to gain 1 segging contribution and 150-200 subbing contributions (when I don’t have to do research or major editing).
Doing A&C is really tiring and I admire you all who still try and do it
I think the way to solve it could be adding another contribution type: reviewing
The CM would assign to the system, who worked on which part and they would gain the whole contribution number for that part, regardless of how many segments they changed.
They would gain contributions in the “reviewing” category
What do you think about it?
(I haven’t read the whole topic, so maybe I will edit this later)
Yeah, you’re right. It’s hardly a perfect solution. But ideally if this were the implementation it would be more about recapping your week. I was just brainstorming but I think the idea of a community prompt per week like a specific recap would be better than a daily check-in where you’ll quickly run out of things to say.
All in all I was trying to find a good community discussions oriented idea since it seems to be the goal here but… I’m with you. Even as the one that came up with that idea I’m not sold on it.
I wish, but as long as Viki doesn’t track adjustments as a contribution type that won’t be possible. But subtitle credits will appear for A&C if you have to merge a segment, so it’s… something, I guess. I just objected to the 3 segments rule because it would be utterly useless to segmenting projects, covering a grand span of 4-15 seconds at most in a 10-20 minute part and blocking other segmenters from working.
I still think the biggest issue facing segmenters right now is that the UI simply doesn’t allow us to do our job when it comes to shows with non-English presubs-- this is entirely the result of an outdated and clunky tool that nobody has anything positive to say about. Its shortcomings now actively prevent us from doing a decent job and it ends up hurting the user experience in the end when subtitles are suboptimally placed and nobody can do anything about it. It would be one thing if the presubs were at least of a decent quality, but I usually have to burn through dictionaries while handling timing because the default segments’ beginning and end points usually don’t even line up with what’s being said by the actors. Those CDrama subs are the stuff of nightmares…
Yes, if we are lucky enough to work on an unsubbed show, it would be crazy to leave after cutting 3 segments. But if it’s one of those new no-combining shows, we will be lucky if we get to add 3 missing segments. On regular A&C, I assume we’ll get a subtitle for each pair of segments we combine or split so it should be doable.Still, it’s easier on subbers and editors since they actually can take a break after the required 6 subs if they don’t have the time to do the entire part in one go.
The problem lies not only in the lack of contributions, though. First, they took away the majority of actual-segmenting opportunities…and now we are more and more limited in the ways we can improve existing segments cause they just have to add subtitles in languages for which plenty of volunteers are available before we even get a chance to do our job. Why exactly did we go to the NSSA?
