Viki

Viki subtitle complaints by spoilt dramafever users


#22


#23


#24

The meaning is more or less the same, but the wording and word number differs a lot in some cases.
Sometimes, the used words don’t make so much sense at all because they are used in a quite strange way/context.


#25

@teufelchen_netty_266

The subtitles on NETFLIX are NOT perfect but they are 10 times better than here at viki bc they are more proficient in the English language, so the subs always make sense, sound better bc they always use the correct past/present tense etc… something here at viki, is forever RARELY done. Instead of writing CAN they write COULD which makes a lot of difference in a subtitle, and this is always mainly done by the same person here at viki.

Right now, I went to this drama on air (but not popular with viewers) the CM posted on the page has been inactive here at viki for 2 years and there are 2 moderators for the same Language but guess what? These 2 moderators, are the same person, that years back used one of the name, and now with her new name is also the moderator for the same language in that drama (but in her/his page (with the old name) has been inactive for 4 years! (but now is the moderator in this new drama?) I did an investigative work, and have evidence of all this I state here, but will only show it to the CEO (unless he is already aware of what’s going on in here).

This moderator (playing 2 different ppl), use all the TIME translator for her English messages/comments etc…and doesn’t even make an effort to find someone to help/him/her out, to fix the terrible PM’s/comments she/he writes/sends to others.

I ask myself, is the CEO aware of this happening here? How can this person that lacks so much, be in so many dramas? To take over a drama and have so much control is kind of scary in my opinion. Besides the fact that she/he will damage the quality of the subs in that drama.

I guess the restriction ‘‘thing’’ in the dramas now, will help in a way to control these type of things going on here at RAKUTENVIKI. I wonder if that’s the reason why so many are panicking bc they no longer can be with their 2/3/4? different names, in so many dramas, at the same time. I hope this stops already so the site can continue to be #1 for viewers/future subscribers.

Maybe now, others that are proficient in both language and can give better quality subtitles here at viki can be working in many of these dramas, too. Finally viewers can have subtitles in a decent amount of time, and not be begging for subtitles or getting insulted by moderators like so many of them do, in the comment section. BUT best of ALL, the quality of the subtitles here at the site that has been going down lately, will finally improve for the pleasure and satisfaction of the now and future paying subscribers.


#26

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)


#27
  I am a paid subscriber to Netflix and became a paid subscriber of Dramafever in 2009 until it's demise in 2018.  Whoever says that Dramafever and Netflix subtitles are better than viki's does not know Korean and is not aware of the amount of skipped complex terms and sentences which were skipped and are being skipped in Dramafever and Netflix.   Because Dramafever subs were often ripped by the pirate sites, looking at the Dramafever subs was  a must for me.   Whenever a new subber suddenly had a huge volume of Korean to English subs with some "off" translations, the first place I would look for the source of the subs was dramafever and more often than not the new subber with the "off" translations was plagiarizing dramafever subs -- mistakes in grammar, spelling, and translation, and skipping of complex terms and sentences included.   It's the "off" translations which started me on the hunt.  Often the subber did not have access to dramafever but the same subs had been ripped to a pirate site available to the subber.    
 With the demise of dramafever, the amount of plagiarizing in K drama has dramatically dropped.   There was also a lack of editing of the Korean to English subs and inconsistency from episode to episode in dramafever in the past and Netflix in the present.     Also, even up through 2017, Netflix was buying viki subs from time to time, for example Descendants of the Sun.  So how can one categorically say that Netflix is "better."  If you mean by better, that the credit in the last episode to team members and removing the OST lyrics somehow made the Netflix subs "better."

#28

I think that subtitles on Viki vary greatly, depending on the team and especially on the English Editors present (ehm ehm…)
There are many which are exemplary (again, I don’t want to name any names, but we know which ones I’m referring to) and others less so.
The people saying that Viki subs are lacking may have happened to watch those shows which are not well done.
Just imagine the shows we’ve worked on, but without the English editing?


#29

I too was a Drama Fever and at the same time a VIKI subscriber. I taught English as a second language for many years. The translations at Drama Fever were often not as good as Viki’s - lacked historical and cultural references that made simple translation unfulfilling. There have been so many complaints about the wait for translation at VIKi, that I think many talented volunteer subbers just quit.

The corporation that bought Drama Fever treated its clients like dirt - shutting down with no notice. I’m very afraid that Viki may end up that way - big corporations know that Asian drams lovers are passionate - they think we will pay more - every corporation now wants streaming rights - Disney, etc. Please appreciate what we have -


#30

To add my two cents. I found VIKI because Netflix subs of Asian dramas left a lot to be desired (to put it kindly). I found DramaFever after VIKI and often found their subs WORSE than Netflix for they skipped whole chunks of dialog.

DramaFever for me was always only if they did not have the show on VIKI because of licensing restrictions. I just refused to watch foreign films on Netflix because the subs were always subpar.

Patience is an issue. Not understanding quality equals effort which takes time verse a slapped dash rush to satisfy masses who feel they should be catered to because they don’t understand the language of a show they otherwise wouldn’t have access to at all without the aid of those who DO speak it says it all.

It’s a foreign film, hence not understanding the language is a given, but, how you get that understanding is the difference between platforms. VIKI volunteers who do understand and care enough to help others understand shouldn’t be abused verbally due to a lack of patience. You want fast? Netflix offers that but it cuts corners to get there.

To be clear @cgwm808 I’m not aiming my [you] at YOU I just replied to you in agreement to Netflix being lacking in the subtitles of foreign languages department.


#31

@bleubirdmist and @logan. Thank you for the affirmation of why I continue to volunteer at viki


#32

Ever since I started watching NETFLIX I’ve noticed a big improvement in Spanish and English subtitles. I can’t speak for other [Language] since I only know those two. The reason I complain about the subtitles here at Rviki is because lately, I’ve seen very little to no editing done in many dramas, and that’s annoying to see because there’s no need for that to be happening here.


#33

So my two cents comes with a small disclaimer. I discovered VIKI back in 2015 and Netflix paled in comparison at the time. At present my only subscription service is foreign content and seeing as how Netflix did not satisfy my needs for it I do not use it at present.

From reading forums around Asian related content, viewers of Netflix has mentioned seeing an upswing in subs since then. However, I’ve still heard the comment that the subs really aren’t consistent across shows and aren’t as detailed in explanations as VIKI subs tend to be on a good day (without poor translators and having been properly edited). I’ve from time to time checked back in with Netflix’s new offers and found this to still be true. Which of course mileage varies. Some viewers don’t want detailed history to help them articulate the shows premise, backstory, and culture more fully; while others do.

VIKI’s business model hinges on the later viewer more. That viewer is the one that will later become another volunteer and help in whichever way they can in their own language. Whereas Netflix’s business model is about quickest availability and licensing right exclusives (similar to DramaFever). VIKI the past two years (2017-ish) has had an uptick in viewers who don’t get the difference in the quality and don’t care to learn either. Most viewers tend to be passive watchers but, VIKI is designed and built around an active/avid learner.

The goal they envision is training others to share their language or be enthused enough to learn a new one. (I wish I had VIKI back in my primary school days because it makes a great language learning and culture experience when it comes to discovering various languages.) I’ve since been studying foreign languages that actually make sense to me that I never would have tried thanks to VIKI, the wonderfully knowledgable volunteers, and the platform as a whole.

I never would have gotten that at Netflix nor did I get that at DramaFever. I am an avid reader and enjoy studying and for me, my watching experience is not passive but ever learning and researching and growing in knowledge about the subject I’m viewing. Unfortunately, with the newer viewers, they want their show and they want it right now in their language foot stomp pout.

For such viewers, Netflix is really the better option. They fail to understand the very fact the content is in another language means either 1) they need to learn that language to understand it 2) need someone to translate if they can’t 3) if they really want it that badly enjoy the show without it and learn to articulate facial expressions and the happenstance of the scenes being shown. Imagining if it was a book? They’d give up or learn it to enjoy it. They see a show, hear it’s popular and want to watch thus demand others to make it possible for them without any effort on their part. Money is not the effort when VIKI makes clear they don’t provide subs as a result of a payment. (Thanks for all the quick links provided by @irmar.)

I’ve noticed as a result of this petulant entitlement many skilled seggers and subbers left VIKI or stopped volunteering. So, the less skilled volunteers (those who are trying to help and/or those who are trying to cheat the QC system) are the majority volunteers now.

Which again, is the fault of VIKI failing to curtail these viewers who demotivate the very volunteers who keep VIKI afloat. People aren’t machines, time is needed to do the “job” properly. And they don’t do this full-time but on their spare/free time. Machines make mistakes (as you noted prior in regards to the sentence helping feature in the subbing tool).

The viewer/payer of any service has the responsibility to know what they’re getting and to know what to expect going forward. Most recent viewers seem to not read over things well or fail to do so at all (again with the entitlement) foot stomp pout.

This got unintentionally long-winded. My apologies.


#34

Well written. I agree with most of your post. Just want to add that it is not just an Asian sub thing but a general sub thing on Netflix (and other similar providers), no matter if you watch something with Asian culture/history aspects or European or Middle East…etc. If one is interested it’s still possible to do some research to learn and find the infos one wants without turning a film into a diashow (bc it becomes impossible to read and watch at same time/ so many lines in few seconds. That’s probably the main reason why professional subs are often different from fan subs).

Another aspect is that in some cases detailed sub info destroys the immersion of watching something, e.g. a character within a story with real-life relation won’t say in every case a poem plus author plus lifetime plus written year and book from where it is. That destroys the imagination of being part of that visual story. Detailed infos are part of educational or documental film.

So for me it’s not a Netflix vs VIKI combat, but more a question of

  • am I in the mood for diashow mode?
  • is the setting (story, costumes etc.) interesting enough to watch sometimes ~60+ episodes with subs?
  • is a certain content I’m interested in available at different places (Netflix has very few fantasy and almost no historical films)
  • is a synced version available and do the synced voices fit?
  • do I like the sound of the origin language?
  • is it possible to read (look at screen) or does a film include too many violent/bloody/cruel scenes so I either have to look at these scenes or don’t know what’s going on? (e.g. detective/crime thrill story, when I miss the speculations it’s bad for the story but often in these stories the characters talk with corpsein the background or photos of murdered people on the wall/table…)

A while ago I started watching an interesting 3 season series with many, many episodes. Somewhere in early season 2 I stopped because the reading + origin voice aspect was too annoying to watch for another 100 episodes…

It was not an Asian series. I probably would have watched all 3 seasons when a synced version would have been available like our TV stations do and how Netflix does with US shows (I can’t remember a single US show without synced version. amazon prime often offers only the synced versions).


#35

Thank you for this input, it allows me an opportunity to make something a bit clearer. I agree it’s an across the board issue with subtitles on Netflix but seeing as VIKI is a predominantly Asian content provider I was referring to specifics. Subtitles I too agree is a preference. I watch foreign language shows on YouTube and subs are never as good as the paid content providers, so, no I don’t mean every show should come with historical context.

Because subs is a preference: I do, however, feel the difference in business models makes it an either-or thing (for those who complain) because the subs (at VIKI) are what motivates the next potential volunteer. Not realizing that’s even a thing results in less quality work (whether with or without historical context) and angry viewers expecting something as a given they were never promised to begin with. Does every show need a lot of historical contextual information? Not at all, I’m just saying what was the thing that appealed to me as a foreign film viewer. Living in one part of the world does not necessarily afford you the opportunity to learn about other cultures similarities and differences in a way that a person enjoys and wants to learn more.

A well-written subtitle won’t take you out of the story but will add to your viewing enjoyment. You don’t need lines of dialogue to accomplish this. BUT you do need TIME. Researching any subject is a matter of interest and it’s not the job of the subber to instill that interest in me or anyone else. However, the issue is not that. The issue is viewers complaining about business practices on site A in comparison to business practices on site B or C. When their business models vary enough to cause such to be quite different.

And in that respect site B is the better option for them. Or they learn site A’s ways of operation and adjust accordingly. They are biting the hand that feeds them. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Complaining “why not” without opening themselves up to learn WHY and using “I ought to be getting…, I’m paying for…, stop using volunteering as a…” is not helping themselves, the volunteer, or VIKI. It’s stressing everyone out, and ruining the viewer experience for would be volunteers. Individuals having a right to determine their own behavior means we aren’t likely to change the naysayers over much but, VIKI could go a long way in minimizing their effects on others.

Again, I’m speaking way more than intended. So off I go. Back to lurking.

Thank you again for your input.


#36

I know for a fact that if you live in Europe NETFLIX doesn’t offer much to see but I’m in USA and I have no complains whatsoever. Subtitles, no buffering (like it does constantly here on viki), drama, movies, documentaries, varieties galore from every country you can think of.

I have seen dramas from Russia, Mongolia, Philippine, Greek, Hindu, Germany Spain etc… and the subtitles are decent enough in English, so no complains on my part. They tend to modernize the subs too much but it doesn’t bother me anymore bc I just want to know what they are talking about, and so far so good.


#37

Do you also get Chinese fantasy & historical dramas for Netflix USA?

We (in Europe) have lots ok K drama mostly romance or crime/thrill but very few Chinese (largest part of Chineses dramas is also romance/crime and not fantasy/historical).


#38

Yes, in US we have TONS of Chinese historical dramas but ironically I like only a few.of those, and I know many would’ve been so happy to watch all those available in here…

I pray that this change in Europe and that you get to see a variety of dramas (Chinese fantasy/historical) etc…