Viki Wants Releases Before English Editing

General Discussion
#39

Sorry I am late to this discussion, but I wanted to share my thoughts on this issue.
First, I thought a major reason why Viki has English Editing Teams is to make things easier for the OL Teams by providing subs that are free of grammar and spelling errors, formatted correctly, and contain translations that are correct, make sense, and flow well.
If OL Teams have to use the Pre-subs then it will be much more difficult for the OL Teams since they will need to deal with all of these issues and also have to back over the subs multiple times for editing process. OL Teams and OL viewers will have to deal with varying quality of subtitles.

The Reason for this Change by Viki:

  1. To get subtitled episodes/films to viewers in their language as soon as possible. Other platforms release content fully edited and ready to watch in multiple languages. If it is on the platform viewers can watch instantly. This is the predominant model and viewers expect it here at Viki as well. Viki wants to stay competitive.
  2. With the new Moderator/Manager channel limits of 3-5 projects, moderators and managers want to finish projects as soon as possible so they can accept new projects. It would be great if all English Editing Teams could work and release 2-4 episodes a week, but sadly that does not always happen. Weeks and sometimes even months can go by with no episodes being released to OL mods, tying up their project limits and preventing them from taking on other popular projects that viewers in their languages want to watch. So viewers lose out again and Viki loses some competitive edge as well.

So the solution for Viki is to release content to OL mods as soon as it is segmented. That way they do not have to wait and viewers get content in their languages that much sooner. Quality may suffer, but speed improves. (But does speed really improve if OL subbers are dealing with all of the difficult pre-subs issues?)

This new rule sounds like more stress on everybody who volunteers, which distresses me. I am also very troubled by the information shared here about Viki forbidding English language Editing Teams, Subtitlers, and even Segmenters on projects. I understand that Viki wants to get content out as soon as possible, but what Is the harm in letting English Editing Teams go through and edit the episodes/films after they are released? Viewers are not prevented from watching content as soon as possible. Why forbid volunteers from improving content?

If Viki allowed the formation of large Teams on these projects instead of 1 person, then episodes/films could be Edited and Released quickly. Many hands make light work. I do not understand why they are preventing people.

For sure, Viki has the reputation of having the highest quality subs of all platforms. This is entirely due to the Volunteers. Viki uses this reputation to market itself and gain subscribers. I do not understand why Viki wants to destroy that by not letting Volunteers at least work on episodes/films after they are released.

Do people care about the quality of the subtitles? Yes, they do. I have seen on other forums numerous complaints about the quality of the subs on various platforms. I have seen countless times the question " Are the subs good quality?" for a particular drama or film. I have also seen the statement “Viki has the best subs.” over and over again, as well as " I hope drama title X gets picked up by Viki so we can have good quality subs." If Viki loses that distinction, then why would viewers pay for Viki membership? They can watch the same quality for less money other places.

Right now, as an English-language viewer, I have the choice to watch content as soon as it is uploaded or to wait until it is edited. I choose to wait until the content is edited. So much Viki content these days comes not from Volunteer subbers but from outside providers. Many times I will wait until all episodes are edited so that I can just binge or watch everything at my own pace without having to worry if any episodes are unedited. That can sometimes mean me waiting many months before I watch a drama, which can be very frustrating, But that is my choice. I choose to wait for Edited content because it provides me with the best viewing experience when subs make sense, flow well, and are free of grammar and spelling errors.

If this new rule at Viki means that OL viewers have the same choice, then I can understand where Viki is coming from, even if I don’t fully agree with the decision. But if this rule means eliminating the English Editing Teams, or forbidding projects from having TE, GE, and CE members, or preventing Viki Volunteers as a whole from working on projects, then I do not support it al all.

7 Likes
#40

Oh, I have been doing this for a while now.
For instance in Lovers of the Red Sky last summer.
It came pre-subbed. I dived in just after the segmenters to correct all the basic things such as repeat subs from flashbacks (I kept all the subs in our Google sheet for that purpose), italics, remove square brackets and cosmetic breaks, remove instances of “okay” and other modern slang as it was a historical (fantasy, but historical nonetheless), streamline uppercase/lowercase, people’s titles, in short all the things that don’t relate to meaning. And of course invert Korean word order. This was done very quickly, and the OL team had the understanding that they could start translating if they wished to, leaving the editing for later.
We did have a TE back then, and a good one too! At that time Viki didn’t dare suggest that we skip this very important person! So when she had finished her checking the meaning and filling in blanks, I went back again (because sometimes Korean TEs might introduce less than perfect English), but looking only at the parts she had changed (with CTRL+F and her name) and then our CE. I often went back once more after her, too, to spot any eventual typos or inconsistency with titles (we’re human, and things may slip through the net, a second set of eyes is always good).
The OL teams knew exactly how much of the editing was done before the final release, so it was their choice at what stage they wanted to start subbing.
Oh, in that particular drama, after release, Viki changed the videos and put others that had on-screen explanations. We had to go and add those (in most cases it was redundant, because it was already explained in the sub, or just repeated some person’s title). So everyone had to go yet another time through the whole thing. Ugh!
It was lucky that it was a good and interesting drama. Imagine having to do this for a boring and lame one! And it was even more lucky that the anonymous paid subber was an excellent one. Not only that, but she closely monitored Team Discussions, so whenever we decided a change, she immediately implemented it. I was really impressed because this is more than the average Ko-En volunteer subbers do (some do it, most don’t). Sadly, this wasn’t the case in many other projects, where the paid subbers constantly made childish mistakes and were much worse than our own volunteers.

10 Likes
#41

I strongly disagree. I think editing is important on every part of the process.
What can go bad? The subber might have a bad day. The subber might not make the best subtitles in general and just slip through the Viki verification with luck. The subber might not have the knowledge of specific terms (medical, law, police, math, physics, historical). There might be more subbers working on a series, problems with that: the level of formality in speech might jump up and down, which doesn’t look good and contributes to the same problem with OL teams, the lyrics, on-screen repeating text and retrospections might change from part to part, every subber might translate them differently (and then OL mods are left with this mess to figure out, what was the true meaning).
Sometimes even after the final editing there are things, that could be changed for better.

Idk, maybe their community :smiley:

Could you tell me, what is the decision making process on Viki? I have no idea about it and would like to learn

I think this issue affect mainly less popular or even abandoned projects. I think the on air projects, that are mentioned, are going to get corrected relatively fast.
I have one project, that has been dead for a long while and I don’t know, if Viki even wants it finished XD

Me too, I think the difference is huge

I think it would be good to let editors in on a project before the drama gets released to the viewers. I know it means people who don’t need subtitles have to wait too, but since it’s already happening with Viki creating presubs on unuploaded videos, I think it could be fine…

8 Likes
#42

Right on! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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#43

What would you or anyone here gain from learning about it? It’s common sense that the investors and owners have all the rights to make whatever decision over ANYONE at this site, and is simply ridiculous all this complaining and anger displayed by many of you the moment any changes are made here. Unless you guys are getting paid and I don’t know about it; why are most people here acting like they are so offended and even betrayed by these changes?

One of the changes Viki Wants Releases Before English Editing

Let’s say that we do a survey, and we can collect enough data to confirm which of these 2 groups offers better quality subtitles: The RViki volunteers or the paid subbers. Is that survey going to make any difference in the changes the OWNERS/HIGHER UPS want to make at this site? Another thing, why so many in here have little regards/respect towards the owners of this site? Is it because you feel the owners at this site ‘‘owe you so much’’ that they have no right to change things as they want?

Whether the owners of this site want QUANTITY over QUALITY is none of our business bc is their business, and they need to to take care of it. After all, it’s their money.
WE don’t spend a penny here to keep this site running, and we do this volunteer work because we want to; we chose to become volunteers, and that’s all we are. If we all decide to leave, we can be easily replaced by adding more paid subbers or getting the videos already segged and subbed either by AI or whatever means; I don’t care how, when or why. I don’t own this site, and they don’t owe me anything since I chose to become a volunteer fully aware I wasn’t going to get paid for it.

Like I always say, we have some excellent volunteers and we have some excellent paid subbers. BUT we are all expendables, and as such face the reality that you can complain here until you get blue in the face, but we have no saying when it comes to decision making from the higher ups/ OWNERS of this place. The problem here is that some are assuming all these changes are been done by other ‘‘rival’’ team members, but let me refresh your memory that the paid subbers are getting paid by Rviki company and not by the Spanish or Portuguese teams that right now hold the first place at this site (so far).

If anyone here feel their QUALITY work is so awesome and perfect; why not make a living from it, and get paid for the wonderful work done by each one of you in here? Has anyone thought that maybe the owners already knows who gives quality work in here and who doesn’t? Have you ever thought that they did research and realized what’s worth holding on to and what’s not? It’s all about PROFIT$, and no matter how good we may feel we are in one, two or several language, it doesn’t mean anything, if we don’t bring in the money.

2 Likes
#44

Knowledge? Ability to underastnd the process and changes better?

No, it’s not a common sense. They do have the ability, but do you know, if they actually do make those decisions?

Do we not get the chance to discuss the changes? Are we forced to like them?

Because they choose to help for free and Viki doesn’t care about them or their opinions?
Viki’s base is the volunteers work and the community spirit. I really like that and I think most of people here like it too. It’s nice to have a legal place, where you can add subtitles and help others access good subtitles. Most people here care about it. Most people care about the community, about the quality of the subtitles. If there are changes, that they percieve as bad, they will try to object to protect the good things, that were created here.

Terrible take imo. It’s also not your bussiness, that your neighbour’s house is on fire, but you still should call him to let him know.

Who said anything like that?

My unchecked report of an abuser from more then 1,5 years beggs to differ XDD

8 Likes
#45

Until all you people let go of the psychological attachment you have with viki like it’s your best friend that has betrayed you, that doesn’t care about you or your opinions, you won’t accept the changes that will happen here, whether we discuss or argue about it with them bc at this point and in my opinion; nothing anyone say here will ever make them go back to what it was before, and me personally, I’m ecstatically very happy about that because it
will eliminate the control groups we have here once and for all.
.

zyxw
Terrible take imo. It’s also not your bussiness, that your neighbour’s house is on fire, but you still should call him to let him know.

Terrible indeed when you dared to make such a comparison. A human life can never be replaced, and that has no logical comparison since it’s everybody’s business to preserve and protect that life; since no money in this world can give us that life back.

2 Likes
#46

Actually, part of the changes they make are a direct result of things we say right here on Discussions. The new moderator rule, for example…

5 Likes
#47

@mirjam_465

Thank you so much! I loved that one the most.

2 Likes
#48

I would want to accept changes, it’s just there aren’t any that I consider good
If they did anything with inbox, I’d praise them for weeks XD
If you want me to be positive, adding the editor role was okay change, subathons are great, 5 slots for projects have their positive sides for mu currently, the help center recently answered me and helped me in 2 hours, which I’m really thankful for

You have the right to be happy as people have the right to be sad :smiley:

How? Why? What do even controlling groups have to do with releases without editing?

Nah, I meant more of type: your neighbour went out or is on holidays and his house is on fire. If he was inside, he could see that

5 Likes
#49

We save them money by volunteering, especially rare languages and most likely in regard to dramas from China, Thailand or Japan as they’re rare on international common platforms. So they can exclusively offer those in different languages, which is at least one unique selling point.
We allow them to be preferred over mainly Chinese streaming services with bad subtitles. We are basically stakeholders. Those always have some sort of impact on a company, and it’s not like they hold no importance in business. This ain’t one of the Chinese dramas where the CEO silences you immediately either with their looks or their charisma.

But even if we are stakeholders, we are not paid. So I’m somewhat annoyed, considering what kind of demands other volunteers have these days. Certainly, we can analyze that this behavior is the result of Viki pushing their limits, “release without editing” etc. demands on us. But seriously… why would I be editing 5 episodes within one week? Will these CMs pay me? :woman_shrugging: Can they even expect anything from the result?

Recently, everyone demands to cut down on editing, cut down the team size etc. Some may think that their work is pointless if people don’t wait for it. But I beg to differ. English Editing doesn’t only exist to translate something into other languages. Many watch these dramas in English and in cases where the original subtitles are “okay” major changes can’t be expected. But it can make English viewers choose this platform. It can influence later OL editing. But the community itself is sacrificing this USP through extreme demands and only adding a CE at most. As OL moderator, I like fast releases, but even then I can at most release 3-4 episodes per week in a medium-sized language community. And to be honest. Not everyone is suited to do everything by themselves.

9 Likes
#50

You wrote: ‘‘We save them money by volunteering,’’ and I wrote: ‘‘WE don’t spend a penny here to keep this site running,’’

Saving them money by our own choice because we want to do the volunteering work for them and for free, and all of us taking our earned working money (from our pockets) to contribute to keep this site running are two very different things, and we don’t do that. We don’t give them money to have this site up and running; so in my opinion they know best if having these rare language offered here at RViki bring them any kind of Profits and not losses.

Remember these rare language at one point will get a Free Viki pass standard and/or plus, and that will be a great loss of money for them, if those rare language are not bringing Paying subscribers to this site. Personally, if I was an investor for viki site, I would eliminate all language that paying subscribers have no interest to pay for, so they could have those subtitles in their respective (native) language.

It’s a wonderful, beautiful and special thing to have volunteers willing to add here that rare language in the subtitles of Korean/Chinese/Japanese dramas/movies/shows etc. But what most of you refuse to see that in the past the economy was better, companies could have the luxury to spend that extra money, but we are not at that stage anymore. Any Businessman in their right mind that want to keep their business up and running have to start cutting corners, so they don’t become another site that went down because their losses where bigger than their profits.

Also, a lot of things come to play in here like the controlling groups that were doing risky actions, like plagiarizing subtitles (and everybody must know how really serious that stuff is). That’s a crime and at one point while I worked in a drama I saw plenty of SPANISH subtitles from other sites that were added in the videos here. This company had so much to lose if this was found out since that’s considered a crime, and who doesn’t know that? Who was doing that? The controlling groups we STILL have here; that go from drama to drama with their buddy system so they can cover any wrongdoing they want to do like using subtitles from other sites and claiming it was their own work. I still see that same group working here as CM/Moderators/Editors, etc etc.

Like @zyxw said abusers were never removed from here and her report from more than a year ago still unsolved (I know at least one abuser who still manages to stay here), but that only happens because they form these controlling groups that ‘‘protect their back.’’ They have different positions and work in different areas here that help them track, and hide what needs to be hidden. I say to myself, JUST maybe if the teams had worked in unity, and not competing against each other, if everyone here wanting to volunteer was given a fair chance, and not pick and chose who they like and don’t like to be in their teams, and poison the others by telling them don’t take this person in ALTHOUGH they knew that volunteer met more than enough Quality and Quality in the volunteer work they would do here than, we would have a site who had no loses but gains.

The reason why RVIKI people are demanding more is because they know it can be done, but as long as the controlling groups that are made up of ONE CE one TE no longer has that control to work at their own pace; things will change for the better at this site. I went recently to an on air drama where a known controlling group was working at, and they were taking so long that the paid subbers had to step in to speed up things there. As I dig in deeper, I asked myself; why such a large group is taking so long to release for OL, if this TEAM are comprise of so may team members? I don’t know why I clicked the one added as an English Editor, and this person was no longer active in here. I clicked another page that a person was added as a subber, the subber hasn’t been active here for a year; so I put two and two together and came to the conclusion they were ‘‘phantom team members’’ and of course they don’t have the manpower to keep up with the speed to finish and meet the require time to offer subs in the drama.

@xylune
Not everyone is suited to do everything by themselves.

I have given many good examples on how some ENGLISH editing team members in Korean/Chinese dramas, HOLD the work for others; for an editing that wasn’t even worth to be waiting so much time for. We have a lot of people like that here, and they need to get off their high horses so that we can speed up subtitles for paying subscribers to be in the dramas in a reasonable amount of time, and not whenever they feel like it because is not fair to this site either since ratings and complains from viewers are sky in the reviews, comments, etc.

2 Likes
#51

zyxw
Terrible take imo. It’s also not your bussiness, tha your nteighbour’s house is on fire, but you still should call him to let him know.

STOP contradicting yourself you clearly said; , your nteighbour’s house is on fire, but you still should call him to let him know.
And now you are saying…
Nah, I meant more of type: your neighbour went out or is on holidays and his house is on fire.

So if that’s the case why are you saying:
‘‘If he was inside, he could see that’’

‘‘you still should call him to let him know.’’

Give it up already. I’m so done with your contradicting statements, and lack of respect for the opinions others may have. I also have plenty of evidence that can back up what I write in here about the controlling groups, the names (fake or real) they use here, and the 3 and 4 different profiles they have working from, and also the different nationalities they come from because some are so good in making up stories at one point I use to believe all them lies… :woozy_face:

NOT ANYMORE.

PS. NOW this is getting so scary here right now that an [UNKNOWN DELETED USER] can give hearts/likes to posting, and you can’t even find their ‘‘deleted profile’’ page either.
HOPING the CEO’s are aware of this new thing going on in here, that looks very hacker/ dangerous to me, and for their own sake they should investigate the power this unknown deleted user has to come in here like a spy… :ghost:

The second next to @mirjam_465 is the [unknown deleted user]. How can this be happening here?

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1 Like
#52

um…

Hovaghimian told us in October that in the year following the acquisition, it went from about 22 million monthly active users with 10 million on mobile to 35 million monthly active users and 25 million mobile users. Speaking today, he says that mobile is growing at a rate of 1 million users a month, and is now up to 28 million.
Tech in Asia - Connecting Asia's startup ecosystem

This was some years ago. Last year’s statistics states that they had at least 4.5 million viewers only in Brazil (Brazil: number of Rakuten Viki viewers 2022 | Statista). Do you think they care a lot about a few subtitlers with a Viki Pass if they have a few million viewers? :woman_shrugging: I doubt it.

Anyone can report people. I informed people about someone before and after 24 hours they got removed from 2/3 of the projects and partly the subtitles were deleted. Even if it’s more challenging to prove stolen subtitles compared to Google Translator, it’s possible. And a majority of this community has a similar goal, after all.

If anything, this depends on the support and not on some Freemasons or whatever. And what’s cheaper? Some support or paid translators? I would assume support jobs require fewer qualifications.

What do paid subtitlers have to do with English editing? These are usually separated, and lots of English subtitlers are new people. This doesn’t appear to be related. There are slow editors, but it’s the CM’s responsibility to ensure a timely release. It’s the OL moderators’ duty to report CMs who neglect their job. And in one case lately Viki even asked the CM why there are hardly any releases.
I know of one case where a completely useless CE was added (who did nothing). But do you think anyone will want to work with them in the future? That’s highly unlikely.

Still, it’s Viki’s duty to avoid massive delays. Like this 68-episodes drama that hasn’t been fully released after 3 years have passed.

5 Likes
#53

I have a vague idea of what you mean by “controlling groups” even if I don’t know specifics, but I fear that the exact opposite is happening with some of the new changes Viki has made. They are actively encouraging some CMs to have less and less people on their English teams because they view the process of TEing, GEing, and CEing as too many steps with potential for too many cooks in the kitchen and too many schedules to coordinate, which leads to too much time between releases of eps. In turn, CMs are looking for people who can potentially do all the steps themselves or at least who can do their part really quickly. Individuals who have high contribution counts are most likely the people who have the most time to devote to Viki, which CMs will see as people who are going to get their projects done in the fastest time possible and therefore will be looking for those types of volunteers even more in the future. In the end, I feel that this is only going to drive away volunteers who may not have as much time to devote to Viki but who maybe have better quality to offer. And to clarify, this is mostly from the standpoint of the English teams.

7 Likes
#54

I hate capitalism

report them
I do that every time if find someone shady

Nope, not true. Noone backs them up.
I guess Viki doesn’t investigate that, because it’s just time consuming :person_shrugging:

I see you’re really frustrated with your situation. I don’t think I can give you any advice. Just report and be the change you want to see.

I think we speak on completely different wavelenghts. I don’t see any contradictions there. I think it’s the best to stop here, but if you want to, I can explain, what I meant in longer message XD

Ha? Where?

It seems to be a simple bug. Things like that happen sometimes.

You did that by reporting to your language community? I feel like it’s easier than reporting to Viki, because the people in community actually understand the language and interract with each other.

Ding! Spot on.
I have the “last interracted mark” on the report from 3 months ago. I guess they saw it, read it and then just went “naaaah” XD

4 Likes
#55

wait, why? i’m very confused, that’s very weird & doesn’t make any sense.

2 Likes
#56

No, I talked to the CMs. Viki should react though as said person is in the top ranking… lol.

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#57

Isn’t Viki itself a “controlling group,” too, these days? The only people who become CM nowadays are either serial CMs who get new channels with the speed of lightning or rookies, while everyone else is standing on the sideline.

6 Likes
#58

mirjam_465
Isn’t Viki itself a “controlling group,” too, these days? The only people who become CM nowadays are either serial CMs who get new channels with the speed of lightning or rookies, while everyone else is standing on the sideline.

Well, I am praying and hoping that one of the changes the CEO’s have done here is NOT give the Spanish team or ANY team full control of the situation as to what goes on in here; because these controlling actions are the main cause of many wrong things to go on in here, and it so happens that the main thing these controlling group does is to make sure they only take in who they want working in their teams, and sadly, they are all over the place. Ironically, part of the ‘‘Spanish’’ controlling people don’t even know Spanish, but claim they do. I know who they are, and I hope the CEO’s are aware of that too since it can break their vicious controlling cycle that can affect this site so much.

I hope the CEO’s don’t forget that some of these Spanish team members did copyright infringement, and I still see them working here in many projects because reporting them went nowhere to this day. This action could had destroyed the reputation of RakutenViki since that’s consider a crime, and has severe consequences especially for big companies like Rakuten that has no need to go through bc of the unscrupulous behavior of disrespectful volunteers… I know for a fact the Spanish teams did this on their own, and not with the blessings from ‘‘viki’’ since the main reason they do this terrible things is their lack of proficiency in the English language. That is why I suggest they screen every volunteer with a ‘testing’', and make sure they meet the requirements in the English language proficiency that they claim to know, but many don’t. A time QUIZ is a must but timing has to be short since they can mange to get info on other sites since they are experts on that field.

zyxw
2d[quote=“angelight313_941, post:50, topic:47902”]
Personally, if I was an investor for viki site, I would eliminate all language that paying subscribers have no interest to pay for
[/quote] zyxw
I hate capitalism

@zyxw Maybe in your part of the world is called Capitalism, but in my part of the World is called THE LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND. This is a smart move big company owners make to keep their business thriving. You know my favorite saying that applies to that, right? ‘‘MONEY TALKS BULLSHIT WALKS.’’

zyxw
I don’t think I can give you any advice. Just report and be the change you want to see.

I AM seeing the changes in here I wanted to see, and thanks to many of you in here; I believe I will get to see many more changes in the coming future that will make me very happy.

xylune
Still, it’s Viki’s duty to avoid massive delays. Like this 68-episodes drama that hasn’t been fully released after 3 years have passed.

I’m glad you mentioned that here since many volunteers that are waiting by the sidelines might be able to take over this project, start and finish the completion of this 68 episode drama. The only ones that can give us real answer on why the 3 years has passed, and no release is going on in there, are those in charge. Do you know who are in charge of that drama?

I believe they have so much catching up to do, and so many new releases of ‘‘on air’’ dramas, that some dramas might be completely removed, and that may be one of them, who knows? I think they should start doing that and start removing dramas that won’t be worked anymore/ever, so people assigned to those dramas won’t be waiting in vain and having false disappointing hopes of working in those dramas. It’s only fair to the faithful volunteers waiting patiently.

my_happy_place
I have a vague idea of what you mean by “controlling groups” even if I don’t know specifics, but I fear that the exact opposite is happening with some of the new changes Viki has made

I have to agree that the new changes at viki are showing some other form of control that ‘‘too many volunteers’’ here feel they are suddenly waiting on the sidelines to have ‘‘work’’ to do like @mirjam_465 mentioned before that ‘‘viki’’ is the control group now,‘’ @my_happy_place you added: too many cooks in the kitchen and too many schedules to coordinate, which leads to too much time between releases of eps. This part answered your why ''viki is doing what they are doing now.

I just hope is the right control any Big company like Rakuten company must have, so things run smoothly, legally, and profitable for them. Right now these changes are new and on the early stages, and as such is too early to judge whether other changes must go on before this changes become a history of SUCCESS here at RAKUTENVIKI company and Associates.
PS. I’m still not comfortable seeing some volunteers in the Spanish team that I feel have to be removed since they’ve shown a behavior that will never benefit this site, and can compromise the integrity of Rakuten company and Associates. Crossing my fingers… :hand_with_index_finger_and_thumb_crossed:

1 Like