Viki Wants Releases Before English Editing

zyxw · March 7, 2023, 7:48pm

I hate capitalism

report them
I do that every time if find someone shady

Nope, not true. Noone backs them up.
I guess Viki doesn’t investigate that, because it’s just time consuming

I see you’re really frustrated with your situation. I don’t think I can give you any advice. Just report and be the change you want to see.

I think we speak on completely different wavelenghts. I don’t see any contradictions there. I think it’s the best to stop here, but if you want to, I can explain, what I meant in longer message XD

Ha? Where?

It seems to be a simple bug. Things like that happen sometimes.

You did that by reporting to your language community? I feel like it’s easier than reporting to Viki, because the people in community actually understand the language and interract with each other.

Ding! Spot on.
I have the “last interracted mark” on the report from 3 months ago. I guess they saw it, read it and then just went “naaaah” XD

mary19c11 · March 7, 2023, 7:55pm

wait, why? i’m very confused, that’s very weird & doesn’t make any sense.

xylune · March 7, 2023, 7:58pm

No, I talked to the CMs. Viki should react though as said person is in the top ranking… lol.

mirjam_465 · March 7, 2023, 8:09pm

Isn’t Viki itself a “controlling group,” too, these days? The only people who become CM nowadays are either serial CMs who get new channels with the speed of lightning or rookies, while everyone else is standing on the sideline.

angelight313_941 · March 9, 2023, 3:28pm

mirjam_465
Isn’t Viki itself a “controlling group,” too, these days? The only people who become CM nowadays are either serial CMs who get new channels with the speed of lightning or rookies, while everyone else is standing on the sideline.

Well, I am praying and hoping that one of the changes the CEO’s have done here is NOT give the Spanish team or ANY team full control of the situation as to what goes on in here; because these controlling actions are the main cause of many wrong things to go on in here, and it so happens that the main thing these controlling group does is to make sure they only take in who they want working in their teams, and sadly, they are all over the place. Ironically, part of the ‘‘Spanish’’ controlling people don’t even know Spanish, but claim they do. I know who they are, and I hope the CEO’s are aware of that too since it can break their vicious controlling cycle that can affect this site so much.

I hope the CEO’s don’t forget that some of these Spanish team members did copyright infringement, and I still see them working here in many projects because reporting them went nowhere to this day. This action could had destroyed the reputation of RakutenViki since that’s consider a crime, and has severe consequences especially for big companies like Rakuten that has no need to go through bc of the unscrupulous behavior of disrespectful volunteers… I know for a fact the Spanish teams did this on their own, and not with the blessings from ‘‘viki’’ since the main reason they do this terrible things is their lack of proficiency in the English language. That is why I suggest they screen every volunteer with a ‘testing’', and make sure they meet the requirements in the English language proficiency that they claim to know, but many don’t. A time QUIZ is a must but timing has to be short since they can mange to get info on other sites since they are experts on that field.

zyxw
2d[quote=“angelight313_941, post:50, topic:47902”]
Personally, if I was an investor for viki site, I would eliminate all language that paying subscribers have no interest to pay for
[/quote] zyxw
I hate capitalism

@zyxw Maybe in your part of the world is called Capitalism, but in my part of the World is called THE LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND. This is a smart move big company owners make to keep their business thriving. You know my favorite saying that applies to that, right? ‘‘MONEY TALKS BULLSHIT WALKS.’’

zyxw
I don’t think I can give you any advice. Just report and be the change you want to see.

I AM seeing the changes in here I wanted to see, and thanks to many of you in here; I believe I will get to see many more changes in the coming future that will make me very happy.

xylune
Still, it’s Viki’s duty to avoid massive delays. Like this 68-episodes drama that hasn’t been fully released after 3 years have passed.

I’m glad you mentioned that here since many volunteers that are waiting by the sidelines might be able to take over this project, start and finish the completion of this 68 episode drama. The only ones that can give us real answer on why the 3 years has passed, and no release is going on in there, are those in charge. Do you know who are in charge of that drama?

I believe they have so much catching up to do, and so many new releases of ‘‘on air’’ dramas, that some dramas might be completely removed, and that may be one of them, who knows? I think they should start doing that and start removing dramas that won’t be worked anymore/ever, so people assigned to those dramas won’t be waiting in vain and having false disappointing hopes of working in those dramas. It’s only fair to the faithful volunteers waiting patiently.

my_happy_place
I have a vague idea of what you mean by “controlling groups” even if I don’t know specifics, but I fear that the exact opposite is happening with some of the new changes Viki has made

I have to agree that the new changes at viki are showing some other form of control that ‘‘too many volunteers’’ here feel they are suddenly waiting on the sidelines to have ‘‘work’’ to do like @mirjam_465 mentioned before that ‘‘viki’’ is the control group now,‘’ @my_happy_place you added: too many cooks in the kitchen and too many schedules to coordinate, which leads to too much time between releases of eps. This part answered your why ''viki is doing what they are doing now.

I just hope is the right control any Big company like Rakuten company must have, so things run smoothly, legally, and profitable for them. Right now these changes are new and on the early stages, and as such is too early to judge whether other changes must go on before this changes become a history of SUCCESS here at RAKUTENVIKI company and Associates.
PS. I’m still not comfortable seeing some volunteers in the Spanish team that I feel have to be removed since they’ve shown a behavior that will never benefit this site, and can compromise the integrity of Rakuten company and Associates. Crossing my fingers…

mirjam_465 · March 9, 2023, 4:03pm

How can playing favorites ever be “right”?

You might be forgetting that it wouldn’t just be your controlling groups taking that quiz. Innocent newbies would have to take it, as well. And timed quizes are not fair to people who don’t type fast or who just get nervous from being timed.

angelight313_941 · March 9, 2023, 5:34pm

mirjam_465
How can playing favorites ever be “right”?

It wasn’t right when it happened to me, and so many others for years on end and done by these controlling groups we had here in the Korean and Chinese Dramas/movies etc. I never had that problem when it came to working in Japanese dramas because those working in Japanese dramas had no interest in ‘‘hogging’’ the dramas/movies, and shared their work evenly and fair to all, but ironically, we stopped seeing any kind of Japanese content here that I loved seeing so much. How was that possible?

But now that these changing situations are happening to EVERYONE in general bc the controlling groups are finally being dismantled/are no longer in charge at this site, and with new rules implemented by ‘‘viki’’ ; you are telling me… is not right?

I’m not better than anyone here, but no one in here is better than me, and also the many volunteers that were kept away from working in dramas/movies for the selfish reasons of the several controlling groups that took over this place like they owned the place, and only wanted their favorite people to be working in their teams.

mirjam_465
You might be forgetting that it wouldn’t just be your controlling groups taking that quiz. Innocent newbies would have to take it, as well. And timed quizes are not fair to people who don’t type fast or who just get nervous from being timed.

Honey, if you are proficient ENOUGH in the English language; ‘‘typing fast’’ has little to NO relevance in taking that timed QUIZ . Let me give you an example: in the Spanish teams they usually give 3 days to 24 hours to finish a 15 minute part they are given in an episode. Is that really necessary? NO, is not. You know why? They are given so much time so they can find sources of translation that will help them add the subtitles in Spanish from the English language (that was translated from Original language Korean or Chinese). If they really knew how to translate from English to Spanish the most they needed was 1 hour or 2 hours at most for a 15 minute part in a drama. The QUIZ will have a fairly amount of time definitely not 15 minutes. When I say timed Quiz is only to rule out a person who also depends on Translators to add subtitles in the testing.

Why people/subscribers complained about the slowness of the Spanish subtitles being in the dramas? Simple, they were doing at a slow pace something that could have been done in a reasonable amount of time. Why the English team was taking longer than needed? Basically for the same reasons as the Spanish teams did; by doing things that affected the speed in having subtitles in the dramas… Allowing their ‘‘favorites only’’ to work in those dramas when they knew these volunteers were not proficient enough in the English language; was the main root of this problem. Wanting to ‘‘hog’’ dramas for themselves and keeping other volunteers away from their position was the main cause of this evil deed done so much in the past. Hopefully, it ends soon enough and for the pleasure of paying subscribers that deserve to receive great service at ‘‘viki’’ as ‘‘viki’’ has promised they would.

I feel that nervousness will only be an issue; if you/the person taking the QUIZ is not proficient enough in the English language because even if you need to check in any translator tools, it would be for 1 or 2 words, and not the whole sentence/subtitle, that’s nothing to be nervous about if we are confident enough you know your proficiency in the language (in this case would be: English).

Tell me dear, why this quiz you feel will be unfair to ‘‘innocent newbies?’’

I don’t like to judge anyone, but in the past newbies became abusers and liars, but thankfully the changes helped that they are no longer working here. There has been a few posting where they make so many mistakes in the language they say they are so good at, and in the past, you would see them right away working in dramas/movies/shows. I don’t know how or why, but they did.

mirjam_465 · March 9, 2023, 6:12pm

I am telling you that it is far from right that Viki is choosing the exact same people as channel managers over and over and over again, while other hard-working, capable, experienced volunteers get no more chance whatsoever.

What is your idea of a fair amount of time?

That just leads to bad subtitles, not necessarily to delayed subtitles. In fact, the less capable an editor is, the less they will correct so they are usually done way earlier than the good editors.

No, seeing that timer while you’re supposed to solve a question distracts and makes you nervous. It’s a very bad way to test someone’s real skills.

We will always have those, but should we, in order to keep them out, really block the way for potentially sincere newbies?

Viki could start by making the sample videos available for all languages.

angelight313_941 · March 9, 2023, 7:11pm

YES! That idea would be better than a timed QUIZ since some people can do bad in the testing just bc of the pressure they would feel if they have to rush. I totally agree with you, but hopefully videos from other sources not dramas the volunteers might have worked on them. I was willing to design a QUIZ, but your suggestion is 100% better. Thanks!

mirjam_465
That just leads to bad subtitles, not necessarily to delayed subtitles.

The subtitles were delayed because they had to be edited, and you know editing takes long when the subtitles are a mess. They were mainly delayed bc in the past Spanish moderators would hog so many projects, and didn’t had the time to do any editing. When they finally started to add Editors in dramas, some were just as bad as the subber (I have evidence to prove this statement) since in the Spanish teams there is a ridiculous amount of controlling, they would keep as Editors no other than volunteers they knew; were not proficient enough to be doing any kind of ENGLISH editing work. We all know that dramas are not able to be released to other language until the English editing was completed so the Spanish subtitles were always delayed for those same reasons, and viewers would start complaining from left to right, non stop, requesting the Spanish Subtitles to be already in the dramas so they could watch them (since they didn’t know English too well).

mirjam_465
What is your idea of a fair amount of time?

It depends if I do the QUIZ in Essay questions. Essay questions are always harder to do because it requires a lot more writing and rules in grammar that need to be done right throughout the testing. Timing for multiple choice questions varies in the amount of questions in the Quiz. For example, a Quiz is always timed as 15 to 20 minutes for 50 easy questions, and for difficult questions about 30 minutes. That would be the most time I would give them; since these whiz computer kids can fool me with their answers by using AI methods. If by chance they do any plagiarism, I can manage to find out right away, but I’m an old timer, and when it comes to these new methods of modern cheating in testing; I’m at a big disadvantage because my LUPUS took away a lot from my memory retention, and other things that play an important role when it comes to testing those savvy innocent newbies.

mirjam_465
I am telling you that it is far from right that Viki is choosing the exact same people as channel managers over and over and over again, while other hard-working, capable, experienced volunteers get no more chance whatsoever.

But I’m confused because Channel Managers don’t do much when it comes to doing any subtitling or editing work; unless we are talking about the usual controlling group CM’s that are mainly working in every drama possible, and now keeping their own ‘‘favorite’’ people in their team, and leaving most good quality volunteers out. I hope the CEO’s are aware of this to be continuing going on in here, and how this was suppose to change, so good quality and quantity could go hand in hand into dramas.

entwyfhasbeenfound · March 9, 2023, 11:14pm

@worthyromance, as the saying goes, I feel ya. I took a look at the Viki Facebook page earlier today. It made me shake my head. Again, I wonder why the @vikicommunity works so hard to shoot itself in the foot.

The Facebook page has to have admins and mods who read responses to posts about the next cool drama that’s going up on Viki. Those anonymous folks have got to know from the consistently negative responses about the current poor quality of subs that something needs to be done about their quality. Yet nobody who can definitively explain the Viki subbing process ever takes time to explain it OR offer fans the opportunity to join the subbing community.

So, in response to negative comments about the Viki drama Oasis that premiered two days ago . . .

I posted the following remarks (I have tweaked THOSE words that the Viki AI censor doesn’t like).

It’s good to remember that Viki has a different way of doing subs than other websites that stream K-dramas.

Subbing is done by volunteers, not by one translator. When K-dramas are licensed to Viki and a team of subbers starts the process that makes subs available in a wide variety of languages, the English-language subs that always come with each drama must be “cleaned” so that they read in a natural way.

After this cleaning takes place, then translations can be made by people who speak other languages.

The reason dramas licensed to Viki always come with English subs is that all subbers use English as a common language of communication. Without that, there could be no Viki.
I have worked “cleaning” Viki English-language subtitles for about four years now, and those of us who sub take great pride in our work.

Because of COVID’s effect world-wide, there are many fewer volunteer subtitlers than there were three years ago, but the demand for dramas of all kinds (Chinese, Korean, Filipino, Japanese, Taiwanese, Thai) continues to grow.

If you LOVE Viki as I do, and if you want to see more dramas with better subs, the Viki community, especially those responsible for creating subs, will welcome you with cries of joy.

How hard could it possibly be for the public relations department at Rakuten Viki to create truly good public relations with Viki fans?

What I wrote about subbing is, I think, fairly accurate; it took me twenty minutes to write; it is respectful; and it welcomes anyone to be a part of the subbing section of the Viki community who LOVES Asian dramas and wants to see LOTS of them with quality subs.

And I did with only my MA in Medieval English literature. I didn’t have to suck up to anybody, conduct endless surveys, or promise “rewards” for participation that never show up (I am still waiting for my gift card).

Common sense. All it would take to eliminate a lot of stress, anger, and confusion is simple, ordinary common sense.

(Giphy)

ginafe · March 10, 2023, 7:39am

I am Indonesian Moderator. I also hope OL can start translating right after TE. Let say until 96-98%. And than the OL editor can start working after Eng Sub officially release. So, we can satisfy both side to whom need fast or need quality.

mirjam_465 · March 10, 2023, 11:24am

Yes, that would be better.

Instead of timing them, give them something they can’t look up.

How much they do is up to them. They are the ones who decide who gets into the team so they can also add themselves or anyone they want to.
But my point was that Viki, who chooses the CMs, ALWAYS chooses the same people nowadays. A minority of favorites is getting all the channels while the others get nothing. The balance has completely gone.

Viki wants OL to start right after the CS…

There is nothing satisfying about this development. Which GE or CE would still be motivated in this setting? And which viewer in their right mind would be happy with the subs?

teufelchen_netty_266 · March 10, 2023, 12:35pm

And also every language needs an editor.
It’s not that easy in many aspects

aznative · March 10, 2023, 6:33pm

I wanted to stop by and take a moment to say how much I appreciate the volunteer community. You encounter so many issues and work to find a solution.
Thank you, I appreciate you all so much.

irmar · March 11, 2023, 4:26am

Sadly, it wasn’t exactly accurate.
You said “especially those responsible for creating subs”, meaning Ko-En, Chi-En, Jap-En subtitlers. But, no matter how warmly we welcome them, those people (as well as wannabe segmenters, hoping to get to work, after long months of training) can’t easily find work anymore, as so many dramas - the majority of new ones - now come pre-subbed and pre-segmented.

angelight313_941 · March 11, 2023, 8:49pm

I think it’s only fair that I add this here so people KNOW where I stand when it comes to ‘‘viki’s subtitles’’ QUALITY.

RAKUTENVIKI has one of the BEST SUBTITLES you can find on any site including in many ANY OL; due to the dedication and efforts of the many (free non paid) volunteers we have here adding the best translations in dramas, movies, shows etc. We also have here volunteers that also mastered the gift of finding ways to make viewers learn more about the Korean culture (especially Korean culture) through the N/T explanations of things throughout the dramas etc.

MANY faithful, devoted subbers, have stayed here through situations that no human should go through because of the actions of these few controlling groups we had here in the past, and I still see some groups to be working here with the same pattern of behavior, that in the long run if they keep them here is not going to be very productive in the end because they need to learn from their past mistakes and stop doing the wrong things they have done/are doing, so far. IT’s a BIG mistake for someone who is not proficient enough (one year college is not enough to be writing Spanish subtitles!) to be assigned parts in endless episodes in dramas in the Spanish language, when a native speaker that knows the Spanish language gramma rules has been told the ‘‘channel is close’’ (whatever that means) That’s the line I always got in the past.

The thing I criticize the most in here is; that by allowing certain groups of people to be controlling many aspects of their positions as CM/Moderator/Subbers/Editors etc…, they allowed a system (that could have been so perfect) to fall into disarray and bias in nature because when you in a team add as a Spanish subber someone from Italy, France, Armenia because they claim they know Spanish, something is really wrong in here. They manage to block many Spanish Native speakers, MANY subbers, that more than qualify to be in that position as a Spanish subber. They also did an injustice to this site/CEO’s when they betrayed the trust some volunteers were given to them, and abused the power given to them in all positions(CM/Moderator/ etc). At one point I thought it was done on purpose by a rival company recruiting people to work here to affect the quality at this site.

I also read somewhere how in some of these English Editing teams everything was halted, completely stopped to change, and not necessarily to add a Quality subtitle, but to the contrary; to add something that took the Quality away from the subtitle; that a hard working volunteer added. To make things more unfair for these volunteers/subbers, they could not even complain about it because they were insulted, and kept away from doing any volunteer work in any drama/movies/shows etc. if they persisted on trying to change something they KNEW was done incorrectly.

As we all know by now, once the main language (English) is lacking Quality work, all OL will lack Quality, too. I always call it: the ‘‘DOMINO EFFECT’’ (unless you are like me that will change into my native language what I know is wrong in the English subtitle). No one here is going to make me a fool, and like I don’t know what I’m doing with my full consent. ‘‘IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN, NO SIRE!’’ You ppl. noticed I know how to ‘‘talk’’ Ghetto? That doesn’t mean I will bring low quality ‘‘talk/writing’’ into my subtitles. That is why the word ANYWAYS was what made me speak/write about this things going on in here that was affecting so much the Quality we loved so much in viki’s subs.

I HOPE and PRAY these many CHANGES help this wonderful site to thrive, and be a success story in always staying as number #1 when it comes to BOTH Quality and Quantity offered here in the translations/Subtitles. So far in the ENGLISH department when it comes to having subtitles fast and with good quality in them, I can say they are accomplishing that in many dramas, but some still needs improvement (Chinese dramas especially).

I ALSO just hope they give the many [OL] other language (other than Spanish and Portuguese) to be offered in dramas, movies, shows for the happiness of viewers who lack in the English language, and only knows their native tongue. Let’s not forget the OL devoted volunteers that are waiting ‘‘in line’’ for their turn to be working here as subbers/translators; for the benefit of this site because a site that offers so many language can surely expect to be the success story ‘‘of a site that offers in their dramas different language worldwide with Quantity and Quality included.’’ Quote/unquote.

entwyfhasbeenfound · March 15, 2023, 1:15am

“Selamat datang!” is what the DeepL translator says is the Indonesian equivalent of “Welcome!”

(Giphy)

lucylaiche · March 15, 2023, 8:04am

On ******* I left a review saying I would upgrade my rating once I’d finished watching ALL of the episodes. My review was Flagged as Inappropriate Content and it said This review has been removed in public. The last time I checked my review was still there)yet hidden, I assume), not deleted and no message from the channel manager saying they would delete the review.

One other reviewer left a 3 Star and it’s still there.YET, there are 33 pages of reviews that have NOT finished watching ALL of the episodes like Viki policy states before they can leave a review. These reviews have been left in place, and ALL of them are 10 STARS. I took screenshots of all the reviews BEFORE someone (I assume the channel manager) deleted them. The deletions ranged from 1 Star to 7-8 Stars.

I suspect the downvotes on the reviews that still remain are from the disgruntled reviewers who had their reviews deleted or flagged as Inappropriate Content. Like I said, the remaining were ALL 10 Stars. So, tell me someone isn’t manipulating the rating system. three people suggested I complain, Yes, I’m complaining, here in Discussion. Why on this particular board…bc all of you apparently take your job seriously. I was told I couldn’t mention the drama I’m complaining about. I was told I can’t really question anything.

Someone is apparently benefitting (repeatly chosen channel manager perhaps) from the rating system and manipulating it to show 9.7 or better.

I see this as a form of censorship when 1 reviewer leaves a review stating they will upgrade their rating after watching all episodes (and leaves 1 Star) and is flagged as INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT and hidden from public view, WHILE another reviewer leaves a review stating they looking forward to this drama, haven’t watched any episodes yet, but it’s probably going to be outstanding (and leaves a 10 Star) and isn’t flagged nor hidden from view.

Isn’t there anyone here who is able to audit the Reviews? Will my review be released for public view AFTER all of the episodes have aired on Viki, and thus give me the opportunity to upgrade my rating like I said I would do in the review? Will all the other reviews that are currently hidden from public view be released to show publicly once all is done?

I have developed a dislike of the channel manager because of the biased manipulative censorship. My dislike of her is driving me to rate dramas under “her care” much lower than I normally would.

cgwm808 · March 15, 2023, 9:26am

@entwyfhasbeenfound Common sense is not common.

irmar · March 15, 2023, 10:54am

You’re really very far from the target here.
Firstly, the Channel Manager has no power to delete or hide the reviews!
Everyone, every registered user, has the right to downvote and/or report for one of the reasons stated in the drop-down menu. And if a number of people do that (I think 3, but don’t quote me on that), then it gets hidden automatically.
Many of us, including me, make it our job to report ALL reviews that were submitted before the drama aired, and, if we have time, also those submitted in the first couple of episodes, regardless of their rating.
BECAUSE IT’S JUST NOT DONE!
Review means review of the whole drama, not of a couple episodes!
And promising to come back and update your review doesn’t count. Just wait, no? Many people don’t come back to update anyway.
We have repeatedly begged Viki to disable reviews until the drama has finished airing on its original country TV, but to no avail.

Now, of course, since all of us have also other things to do, it’s very possible that we don’t catch all such reviews, or that we go there and do this checking only once or twice, not several times. So it may have happened that yours was one of the first, and some others, equally inappropriate, came a bit later and were not reported.
I don’t know of which drama you’re talking about, but we usually do this on dramas where we are on the team, although it’s not uncommon to go help on other dramas as well.
I repeat, we don’t even look at the ratings when doing so. There are some fake reviews with very high ratings (fans of the male lead) and some fake reviews with low ratings (sub-whiners). So they usually balance themselves out. If anything, the positive fan-“reviews” are more, especially nowadays when most new shows and films come pre-subbed.
But no more on that, because we’re being off-topic here. If you want, you can continue the conversation on one of the many threads dedicated to it: