Yes, those are the movies. The comments about timing were on the team discussion. That CM is very pro-active and usually gives the heads-up before complaints can register on public comments. Regarding the TE, I don’t like to speak for anyone else because I feel people offer where they desire. Here is a list of people who have offered to do Korean translations:
KOREAN
ocastillo98
japelgren
nikkilain
bobamlkt_335
banjjagineunchonsa
parkjaehyun
hehe_thatsfunny_371
saranglove101
myeongchojune_218
tamara56lovekj
schnoop
hugh_sophia_567
dongbangb2uty
manas_subbaraman_529
jenarrtee
riesem97_306
sysyppp_602
kjk_916
cherry_blossom3
shaexo
triviaaiu
xandreee
sadpromise
tracyzhengx
Also, I don’t know if cgwm wants to test new people. If I was a Korean moderator looking for new trainees to one day become TEs, I would check out: Want to subtitle? Let people know!
I found that editing a pre-subbed drama of 36 forty-minute episodes was not substantially different than editing a movie of 1 hour and 40 minutes, except for the amount of time commitment. With the drama, I felt it was reasonable to edit a whole episode per day, but I edited the full movie in one day. I’m not a person who can leave a task half done. For me, it’s like leaving my hands half-washed. I just can’t do it. Of course, I always do a second check before I leave the task at hand. If I awake the next morning with an afterthought, I always listen to my intuition and go re-check the segment.
We now have the answer regarding pre-subbed shows that they arrive at Viki that way. Thus I do not feel that Viki’s standards are low, but rather high since it is our volunteers who fix the segmenting. Thank you to all the wonderful segmenters on Viki.
I will be leaving this discussion now since my concerns were answered by Viki staff. I wish to express my appreciation that they listened to this issue and responded. I always live to seek solutions, and I try to spend my time more productively than complaining. I choose not to control others as I have enough to control my own life.
I am personally invested in seeing Viki thrive because of what happened to DF. I choose to do my part, however small that may be in the worldwide community of Viki, since the need for English general editors can only grow with pre-subbed shows.
Thanks for the list of subbers, if anyone wants to contact them, they can be directly contacted thanks to this list by other teams and English teams.
But in the list of subbers, we don’t have the TE, so we can’t contact her… let’s not exclude her, she could miss an opportunity and reading your messages, it seems positive.
Exactly! She could be part of the solution to help dramas missing a TE.
No harm done if we just contact her like we can contact subbers from this list. Let me ask the TE, she would be pleased.
At this least this conversation could help find other TE for future dramas
@worthyresponse – Last week I did pm several of those who said the wanted to sub from Korean to Englisn – I chose five people – and only one responded.
It’s not only low but people are toxic as well. I used Viki many years ago before Rakuten took over and added all these benefits. Recently there was a drama I really loved and decided to help out translating even though I don’t use Viki to watch it. At first I thought the TE would know how to use idiomatic English but they are not a native speaker. When I try to have a discussion about it they start to berate my work and myself. They shamelessly take my translation, adding a word that can be omitted in English and call it their own. Then turn around and said that I tried to shamelessly steal the TE work.
That’s when I realized the Viki translating community is no longer made of only fans who sub because they love the show but because of the benefits Viki gave. I feel sorry for the subbers who spent hours on it for the TE to take the credit doing almost next to nothing sometime. Good Luck to the translators out there who decided to put up with this BS. You guys deserved better. If you have to spent hours on end to get the translation you should demand that your editor be someone who is better at the language then you and not the other way around.
The person that was berating me was the person in charge. I spent over 20 hours making the translation and I apologized to her when I tried to recorrect what they butchered since I wasn’t an editor. But instead of stopping there she went on about how my translation was incorrect or I should say she said “uncorrect” and continuously called me shameless, worthless, etc. Telling me I was trying to take the TE credits. What credits? I did it for free -.- I don’t use the site to watch any drama. What credit could I possibly get?
Funny you mentioned credits. It always amazes me how people (mostly the insecure conceited sort) get territorial over a sub which no viewer knows they created.
One sub can be overwritten by 20 people and each of those 20 people will have it counted into their contributions. So, what are they really after when insisting on their version of the sub? To see their own sub on screen. That is all. They are the only ones who will know it’s their sub, but that doesn’t matter. Because the ego is too strong, and their sub, no matter how incoherent or inaccurate it is, will remain on that screen.
Some individuals are overly territorial and need to be put in place from time to time. By whom? The nearest boss. In this case that would be the CM, although disputes over language do not fall into their job description.
And this is exactly why people on Viki like to work with other users they already know. Because there is already an established level of trust AND even if you don’t write something (ie. criticise) extremely politely and unambiguously, what you wrote will not be put into a negative context.
It’s a little baffling honestly, they sound as if they’re in a cult. If they are adversed to outside help and input they could have said so from the beginning. I don’t really mind if the editor place in one letter to my sub and call it their own if they edited correctly, but they did not. Which was agitating since I’m somewhat of a perfectionist. I even have some people help me irl to make sure everything was good for an English speaker. I felt sorry for wasting their time and now we even get insulted by the CM. And so they told me “you shouldn’t have done it for free. No good deed go unpunished.” I couldn’t disagree.
That sounds terrible. I’m glad I don’t have to use Viki to watch my favorite show. The video quality isn’t that great to begin with for the standard nowadays even though you have to pay for Viki Premium. I just hope that other translators out there who had to go through this BS or is going through it right now would think about quitting. They deserve better as human being and shouldn’t have to get berated by these terrible people.
I’m glad I don’t need subtitles to understand the show. I just feel sad that the community had became like this, especially with all that is happening in the world atm. I thought people would be more decent but one can only hope.
Reply to your PS: I did submit a report in with the conversation I had with them. Afterward I received another msg from them (warning technically was what they wrote as the title). I didn’t open it to read what they had to say since I didn’t want to waste anymore time on them. But from what you say they might just put me in the wrong. I don’t mind being ban from this site to be honest, it hold no value to me. I have never and now will never watch any drama on here.
No, I think I’m done with volunteering for Viki. The new ‘team/cult’ thing is just too baffling for me. I’m sorry you had to go through it. I only wanted to go on the forum to make sure I wasn’t imagining things and that IT IS THAT BAD on Viki.
I wish an actual company employee, who’s competent, can see what’s going on with Viki and fix this toxicity. There’s too many Oedipus around now.
It happens, but the scenery is not the same everywhere on Viki.
Probably, there are people closed to suggestions or people more opened to it, it is like everywhere.
Later, the suggestions need to be reviewed, approved or not.
I’ve met English or French editors on Viki who were opened and took the feedback or took the time to explain me calmly why it stayed like this. It’s awesome because I can learn something new with them through our exchange. In general, people with whom I could exchange positively about this are turned towards one goal “Is the subtitle fine, accurate or is there a better way to subtitle it?” or “What is the grammar rule?”
The Q&A from both participants are not “You are wrong” or “This is trash”… that’s not the goal or the intent and everyone can make mistakes.
(Uncorrect (archaïc apparently) according to here and here. I’m not a native, so if someone has better references or knowledge being a native, he is welcome)
It’s the same conversation we had with another volunteer earlier this year, don’t give up if it’s truly what you enjoy doing and you have the ability in the language department.
Sometimes, we need more time to make new and positive encounters.
The volunteer is still contributing today and took a fancy in finishing dramas.
We can find our own place, just that we have to look for it and live some experiences to know what we will prefer or what will suit us and at the same time, be useful. Yeah, enjoying and being useful, I will put them together.
There are volunteers who have met each other.
I’ve met volunteers I’m about to meet in real life and even one invited me to spend summertime in Greece. If I had decided to be away from my first difficulty on Viki, I would have missed encountering them.
Let me be the devil’s advocate here. If you are not a TE but a subber, you have no job to touch the TE’s corrections, even if you thought they butchered what was initially good. Ask someone else to intervene or bring proof (links to grammar sites etc.) that yours were correct, and discuss. But you are NOT to touch them. If and when a subber corrects my edits I get SUPER PISSED. Especially when they are good edits, and she reverts to something wrong. This happened once and I made a huge fuss.
Are you 100% sure you were correct? You made several English mistakes in your posts here.
Of course where you are right and she was wrong is the matter of being civil and polite. She should have explained to you why she decided those translations were wrong. We have to observe good manners here, and try to help people become better, not insult them and make them feel worthless, driving them away from Viki. This should be a given, but unfortunately it seems that it’s not a given for many.
This means that - whatever her editing skills - she is not a good person, and definitely not a team worker.
I don’t know if it’s ego, but it’s in fact narcissistic. The current reality is that the translation’s quality on viki has become poor. Why? Surely because everyone is doing what they want, they don’t want to recognize that they need help or they take on roles and functions that they are not able to perform. The other reality is that many people are now using translation software and they dare to say that they are “translators”. It’s a shame for true non-professional translators who have just as much capacity as professional translators. For me, they are not even translators, they are jokers. And I’m not talking about those who think they can edit when they make atrocious mistakes on meaning or misspelling. But welcome to the new world of viki.
Another thing, viki doesn’t seem to care at all about this. Even if we report with evidence, they don’t care and do nothing. They say it is not the case, but it is totally. They just want translations to attract “viewers who don’t care about the quality of translation”. What is unfortunate is that by attracting these people, they also lose many others who do not want to see mistakes in each word.
Okay, this was for french or all language translations. Now, let’s speak about english ones.
You guys have to stop defending yourself. It’s a lot of work and we are aware of that. We also do the same drama as you guys. The reality is clear, the overall English translation is far from perfect. The worst is the meaning but… More I progress in my dramas, more I wonder why I get so bored wanting the best for my language and spending hours thinking about each sentence because English edition (TE / GE / CE) didn’t do its job. Not to mention all the inadmissible bad syntax sentences, misspelling and meaning errors, which are obvious. THE REALITY is that we spend more time translating because English edition is not good enough. However, when we sometimes wait several days or weeks for released, I think we can expect better than “average” or “poor” quality. English work is sometime slovenly too, for quickness. I speak globally. Of course, there are always exceptions. It’s the same for all dramas I watched on viki.
Another thing, I never or rarely dare to say when I see something wrong. Why? Because it is very difficult to speak with English editors, they defend themselves more than anything else. THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM, WE ARE A TEAM AND A TEAM HAS THE RIGHT TO DISCUSS THINGS. So now everyone is making changes in their corner, in their language, without saying anything to english supremacy team. Nobody says anything because they fear of being dismissed or ignored, or subsequently of being blacklisted. Well, this is when moderators care about the quality. Because there are many who do not care completely, neither edit. Well, same for CM newbies or not. Many don’t care at all, even if we tells them. They say “ask to the moderator” and withdraw themselves. You think the moderator will say “yes, come and change my poor translations”:… Because we are volunteers does not mean that we should not care. When one engages in something that involves hundreds of other people, one should be concerned with quality.
Viki world today: we are not close-knit teams. And don’t tell me otherwise. Useless to say “me, I…” because I speak in general. Unfortunately, there are problems everywhere on viki not only on these points. But hey, we’re volunteers Moreover, viki does nothing to fix things, they are not great managers, when we see that even the vikistaff members are biased and incompetent, even who lacks humanity or just thought. Professional conscience is something that some people should seriously consider. The passion that I felt on viki dissipated gradually. I lost faith in viki, I will no longer fight to improve viki, because I don’t care now. I tried but it didn’t work. I’ll do what I have to do on my side and the rest, whatever. Anyway, no one wants to take a step forward. Why should I? And the time when I said nothing about my true feelings is over. I will no longer be afraid or reluctant to tell the truth. A little more hatred is not going to kill me.
I write this message with a serious problem with my hand, that explains my big english mistakes in this message. My mental state is also very low because I experienced some internal and external disasters recently. Same for my health.
I think disengagement is the best thing in the world. Thank you for teaching me.
You mention ego, haste and sloppiness as the reason for which translation and editing is not up to par., for which people take on roles they are not fit to perform well. And yes, these surely are among the reasons. But you forget a very important one: Some people don’t know how bad they are. They sincerely don’t know it.
And if someone tells them, there are two possibilities:
they don’t believe it, they think “ah, this person envies me, hates me, she’s mean”, rather than ask themselves whether there is some truth in the criticism
they do some research, they find out that indeed it was wrong, then they feel bad but still they thank the person who alerted them.
Which option will the person choose depends on their character (how strong is their ego and insecurity) but also on the way the criticism is delivered. Good manners are a must. People are insecure and delicate, and you don’t know who they are, what they have gone through. You have to say things in a nice, non-aggressive manner. You don’t want them to feel humiliated. And it’s not easy, believe me.
In my case, I have found that people who are secure in who they are take corrections in their stride. They thank you and immediately go on to correct the mistake. A shining example is my Chief Editor cgwm808. When I still didn’t know her personally, I had written to her about some English mistakes in Misaeng, a drama of years ago. While I was doing the Greek, I had kept note of typos or inconsistencies etc in each episode, with the episode number, part and timing. Well, the next day she had fixed everything!
Another example is a couple of Korean-English subbers I love working with. They are among the very best, their English is excellent. Well, they make it a point to check my editing and then write to me to thank me for a good solution and tell me how useful it is to them.
You may say that that’s exactly why they are so good!
Whereas I have found that the ones who don’t take it well are those who are mediocre, those who need it the most. There was a very mediocre subber to whom I had written, very nicely, about some frequent mistakes, and she lashed at me that “I feel that my hard work, my giving up my free time, goes unappreciated” and she left the team.
As someone who is translating old dramas (5 years and older) as much as new ones, my impression is that the segmenting and translation quality has improved by lightyears.
That being said, I understand well the feelings behind the rest of your points. I give feedback when the English subs are ambiguous, inconsistent, incorrect in grammar etc. And in about 20% of cases I come in conflict with one (and it’s always just one person per team) English team member, regardless how careful I am in formulating my “complaint”. Getting a bitchy tone back every time? Being ignored/dismissed? Being patronized by saying “the subtitle looks clear to me”? Then you might be arguing with a bad editor.
The really good editors will know that, if two different moderators of another language do not understand the subtitle, the subtitle is wrong. The really good editors are not afraid and are not so insecure in themselves not to delve into the linguistic nature of the problem.
My impression is that at the moment the balance is inclined more towards the good editors than the bad ones. It’s just that we remember better and longer the bad interactions than we do the good ones.
I think one of the causes of very colorful experiences a volunteer has at Viki is the large turnover of volunteers. Just as one person is taught to avoid some common mistakes in segmenting, translation and working in teams, they leave and are replaced with another person who needs to be taught the same things.
Learning how to work in teams is probably the most abstract and therefore the most difficult thing to learn. Much more difficult for some newbies than which verb tense is more appropriate for that particular context.
I agreed which was why i apologized to her. I haven’t used Viki in a long time and they didn’t explain things to me beforehand. And I continuously apologized for overstepping but she kept on berating me which was unacceptable. Yes I’m sure it was correct since I got multiple opinions on the matter and they are grammar nazis.
Simple ex:
“What are you doing here?” --> I wrote.
“What is Dark Lord doing here?” --> TE
or
“…now that I look back, it seems strange.”
to
“…now that I look back, I am aware of the strangeness.” << never heard anyone, even on TV, spoke this way.
I speak multiple languages including more than one asian language, it works in an Asian language since we always have to refer to the person by their title instead of simple calling them ‘you’ but in English when you do that people will be wondering ‘are they speaking about someone else and not to each other?’ It just doesn’t work. I don’t go up to my friend and go ‘what is friend doing here?’ to them.
Moreover, viki does nothing to fix things, they are not great managers, when we see that even the vikistaff members are biased and incompetent, even who lacks humanity or just thought. Professional conscience is something that some people should seriously consider. The passion that I felt on viki dissipated gradually. I lost faith in viki, I will no longer fight to improve viki, because I don’t care now. I tried but it didn’t work. I’ll do what I have to do on my side and the rest, whatever. Anyway, no one wants to take a step forward. Why should I? And the time when I said nothing about my true feelings is over. I will no longer be afraid or reluctant to tell the truth. A little more hatred is not going to kill me.