CMs picking the same people over and over again

General Discussion
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Why do CMs keep appointing the same people for projects?
Lately channels are being released and not even an hour later they already have OL mods. What’s the point of sending applications if you already know who you want to give the spot to?
Sure, there’s always room to improve, but I’m not new at this. And yet I still get told to lean on more experienced mods. How exactly am I supposed to do that if the same people always get chosen and they only work among themselves?
But this isn’t even about experience, is it? There are people who’ve been moderating for YEARS and still can’t get new projects because the same few people get picked for absolutely everything.
Let’s not even talk about the quality of the work since you can’t judge that if you don’t speak their language.
But how do you even know they’re doing their job properl when some of them are handling ten projects at once and sometimes don’t even edit at all.
You say you check profiles and activity. Then why do you keep picking people who are already drowning in moderations and editing a bunch of on-air dramas, instead of giving a chance to other people?

What’s your opinion on this?

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Not just OL but also CS and CE.
I guess the trend of people tending to pick the same people over and over again has always been there to some extent, but nowadays, we can’t even expect Viki itself anymore to play fair. Don’t get me started about the current CM-choosing process. There’s the lucky ones… and there’s the rest of us.
But those lucky ones can’t just lean backward and enjoy their position. They have to keep Viki happy or they are out. And what makes Viki happy more than anything else on this planet are fastly produced subtitles. The sooner all OL is done, the more chance the CM has to soon get a new channel. So they got to make sure they get people they can force to deliver ASAP, one way or another. Not just in a decent amount of time, but better yesterday than today. Quality is not important, at least not to Viki, unless of course the viewers start to complain. But since viewers usually complain more about missing subs than about not-so-great subs, we know where the priorities lie. So everyone needs to be rushed and while most of us stand on the sideline, the “lucky ones” probably don’t get that much chance to enjoy their luck either way.

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For the better part of 2023 and 2024 I’ve sent more than 20 applications for OL moderation in those dramas which interested me. Only one CM gave me a chance. One moderator position for almost 2 years. After completing that project, I just gave up. How can I compete with the best bros of a CM?

They probably don’t even send applications, just some message along the lines: ‘Hi, X, this is Y. You still remember, I gave you a moderator position in the drama Blossoming Blossoms in Full Bloom, right? So, I’m interested in your new project. Count me in.’

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While I agree that it’s best to wait for a while before you appoint anyone (I usually wait for at least 24 hours, so every timezone has a chance to apply), I don’t think it’s necessarily as simple.

While for example the mentioned Polish community applies a lot for e.g., BL dramas, I only received 1-2 applications for some other dramas as a CM. So there wasn’t indeed much of a choice to make.

On the other hand, the mentioned Italian community is very active and has a lot of moderators, so you receive a couple of applications for any sort of drama recently.

I’m aware, it’s a sensitive topic, but when I receive a pm (from whatever language) containing 2 sentences it’s a bit sad as it usually doesn’t show why someone’s even interested in the drama (certainly I am aware this doesn’t affect very small language communities where at most one person applies - but I am from a mid-sized community, so there has always been some competition). At the same time, great applications often come from people who already have a couple of active projects. So I am very happy to receive great applications from people who have fewer active projects and who are interested in working on a certain drama.
The other thing are formal aspects. For example, sometimes people state they work on 2 dramas and I check… and there are 4 instead or so-called completed projects all show 98% completion everywhere. To me, this hints negligence. :woman_shrugging:

Personally, I usually make a table and try to evaluate certain aspects of each profile and application. This does include the application text itself, active projects, activity in a project and so on - and many CMs I know use similar stuff to assess things. So I am indeed a bit sad or rather disappointed, when I receive pms as a reply that state stuff such as
“You play favourites”
“You didn’t check anything properly”
after I spent hours (!) on evaluating everyone.
I do keep new projects in mind as well as my personal history with someone, so there is some diversity. However, I am aware that the selection is not as transparent, so it’s rather easy to doubt things.

Certainly, I cannot generalize my personal experiences. CMs will always differ and there are no real standards provided to select moderators either. You just have to do it somehow. As a language moderator I am not always happy with the results either and I can imagine it’s hard especially for newer moderators or those that haven’t already established themselves as well as some others may have. :melting_face: Sometimes, as a moderator, I am even surprised to be chosen when I know there were better applicants (like with fewer projects), but I have no issues inviting others to co-moderate or work together with me on a project (or the other way around) - and I am glad that this is a possibility in our language community.

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Yes, I noticed it, it’s like a new trend for some, that team is added like asap,
there were dramas I couldn’t even apply because I was sleeping or in work.
As I mention in other post CM are like always same people lately, and I was like 3 Times CM, and yeah I will probably stick my stick in a hive but since I’m one leg outside I kind of don’t care anymore. The groups are real, it proves me multiply of times thru last year, and it’s not about genre. I apply to one particular CM for Three Shows, only one was BL, first time I wasn’t picked because CM told me to ‘‘Spread my wings more’’, and OK, but there comes next time and same CM told me I wasn’t picked because ‘‘someone is more active’’ - I was like… oki but it’s a literally hobby and not everyone from us have time to be here every days, if some do, it’s great for them. But time not every time equal quality, but I let it slide. Third time was same rejection, ‘‘I choose this person because of the way writing application.’’ And mine never was like only few words. But Fun Fact, all three time CM choose same person for different shows. In other case CM told me that person chosen had more ongoing projects and I should try again, but How can I spread my wings and do more, If I always got rejected, and don’t have anything to work on. So I think amount of projects shouldn’t normalize to choose, because as many projects Viki have, there shouldn’t be a problem with getting something to work, but there is and a huge to add that. But I didn’t want to make myself down, so I try, again and again. One particular CM ask me if I’m on ‘‘Discord Viki’’, not to mention it isn’t even official, but why me being or not being there should define my application. I’m not a very social open person, so that was weird for me.
And certainly I will not kiss someone’s four letters with letter long application describing my love for show or actor like an intro to a book, because my quality and dedication should be the one that matters, and if I apply for particular show that means I’m interested. And judging people who we don’t know by their time spending on viki, long apply, or not enough commitment to write about our love for a series or cast is shallow. Because we do not know the person who sits on the other side of the computer, and we do not know what he/she do in life or how she/he maneuvers time. It is possible that he/she is really trying, however, cannot be here every day.
But let’s say all hell lose when I kindly got CO-CM of BL, and amount of application for some Languages were, just wow. And after picking to this day I got messages about picked team that isn’t good, and the most funny part is, the people who do it, actively work with those people they stab in the back in the massage. Not to mention I got some application on my discord ‘‘Don’t ask me how they fund me it’s still mystery for me’’. So yes that shows that not everyone apply on viki side, some do it others ways. Because of that I’m packing my bags viki changed a lot, and I see some people like everywhere, OL, moderator, ED, segmenters, I get they want to spread their wings but when I see they have like 2-4 moderations, some ED, same time, and doing segments, and despite being so busy still got to choose while some literally got nothing to do, it’s just weird for me. Still I didn’t want to offend anyone, but that’s just how I feel and what I see. Some got’s tons of work some are still because they have nothing, and I don’t think it will change soon.

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I wanted to avoid to reply, because I’m not one to complain, but honestly, it’s becoming too much.
I admit that I’m new to Mod, I decided to go for it at the start of this year and I sent I don’t even know how many applications for on-going dramas, check how many new projects started since January and do your counts.
And someone could say “Why?” because maybe it seems like I could be a “hoarder” but the thing is: no one gave me anything. And when it’s like that, you ask everything hoping that someone will trust you with a project.

When no one choose you, you can’t choose what you get and everytime you don’t ask, it’s a no.

As I said, I asked and asked, and trust me, my application is full of details. I don’t have a good curriculum in Mods, as I said, I just started and the few one in my profile are of old dramas that weren’t edited or Co-Mod I did, to understand even how it works, because you have to start somewhere. But at the end of the story, I don’t have experience on an on-going drama alone and this is already a no when I send an application. I understand perfectly that, you don’t know me or how I work and it’s a risk to give a project to someone you can’t trust yet.

But at the same time, how can I show you anything, if I don’t get anything?
How can I get experience, if all the projects go to someone that already got it? And you just accept that?

Even short dramas, movies, they go to people that have hands full of projects, when it could be an opportunity for someone new to prove themselves, not just me. I noticed CMs giving drama, even waiting sometimes to assign the role, just to give it to someone that has already the max number of Mods and sometimes those dramas were yet to start, so imagine maybe 4 drama yet to start and one almost finished and one already in your pocket since the CM is waiting. How can you expect someone FULL of projects to have a good quality in what they do? When you’re the one always giving it to them. You can’t say that it’s not true, but we can see that, we notice this things. Like when you assign someone JUST RIGHT when you get the channel as a CM, or when you get an application right then and you “already have someone to assign for that language”. We notice when you don’t even read our applications, when you don’t even check the profiles before rejecting us.
Because this isn’t about the real rejections, the people who “I checked and I chose another candidate”, this is about the people who literally just assign the role to someone because they want that person. As said before in another comment, the Italian comm is full of people, you always receive many applications, how is it possible that you give the project to the same few people? (even if this apply to all the languages)
It feels like the meme that “we only want young people to work here, but they should have experience, but they can’t work anywhere because we don’t want people with no experience.” In Italy we say “you can’t have a drunk wife and a bottle full of wine”.
I’m not new to rejections, my entire work in real life is based to request and get rejected most of the time, but this isn’t it. This is not envy, this is a phylosophical question: How can I get experience if I don’t get a chance? Specially when you say it to my face that I should “spread my wings” (quoting another comment).

Also, if you write that to send an application “you should have at least 20.000 subs, if not, ask someone to help you”, if I have even 20.001 subs, you can’t tell me that I don’t have enough subs to work, sure, you can reject me, but if you ask for a number and I have it, then it’s “a check” on your list and I still can apply. If you want to assign the role only to people that have 100.000 subs or more, write that! It saves time to both of us, trust me.

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Totally true, and usually those who give and receive are the ones that defending one another. That’s how mutual friendship are. I think to choose should be more transparent. I even got cases when the show was a couple of episodes active, but It was clearly shown that CM was waiting for someone who will have a clear spot to be added. And I think limits are added for a reason. Some even didn’t reply, yes or no. There are many different cases and as many as people, but true is that with so many projects, everyone easily should have work to do despite all. I wish for a little change in that. And equal work to everyone.

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Even long before the introduction of the moderator restrictions, there was already the expectation of being “active” all the time. When you hadn’t done anything on Viki for a short while, you were considered “inactive” if you applied, while in reality, you probably had all your time to devote on the new show. And if you were “active,” you had less time for the new show, but more chance to get added. :woman_shrugging:

I agree. At least the first contact with the CM shouldn’t require that much dedication. There have been times that I have expanded my application when the CM had already replied to my initial application and wanted to know more. But the only time I wrote a really long, detailed initial application, the CM not just rejected me. She actually recruited someone else (who hadn’t applied) behind my back and waited with replying to my message until she was sure that this person had accepted. Then she sent me a polite message saying she had “already” chosen someone else. Had I known this in advance, I wouldn’t have put in all that effort.
Back in the Stone Age, when I still got channels, the applications had some influence on my choosing, but not their length or whatever. It was more as part of the overal impression. If the message seemed unfriendly or overly slimey, then I tended to say no. But never because they didn’t write a long essay to convince me. In fact, I think some CMs might even find that too much work to read. :upside_down_face:

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Well, a CM is allowed to want a specific person because they think it may be a good match for the job. As a CM, I also write to some people who haven’t applied, because I was impressed by their work in some other drama of a similar style where we were together.
An example among many. When I worked as an English editor on a difficult drama, there was someone, an OL editor, who constantly asked intelligent questions, pointed out mistakes we hadn’t noticed, contributed information she had researched herself and generally showed great dedication and attention to detail. She was also very nice and cooperative in her communication, practical, to the point, friendly without being adulatory. I remember thinking “that’s someone I would like to work with one day if there is a chance”.
Many months later, I was made CM. Even before the requests started coming, the moment I got news of my “nomination”, I wrote to her to ask her to be moderator. (She was surprised). Before she replied I didn’t reply to anyone else.
Are you saying we are not allowed to do such things once in a while?
That’s not to say, of course, that from now on I will only ask her. But that was a difficult project that needed a lot of care, and I thought she was the best match.

What I’m trying to say is that, as long as it’s not unfair (giving a role to someone who’s not good only because they are your friend), there are no hard and fast rules or procedures.

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I must say that I agree, it’s not surprising at all. In fact, it happens to me that the CM does not even take the time to say “NO” in a message, I realize that I’m rejected is because the language moderator is already there. On the other hand, I have already learned which CM I can write to and I know that he will at least answer me saying who he chose.

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So, you’ve saddled some poor soul with a project, she even didn’t consider participating in? Of course, she’d gladly agreed. She probably feared the consequences of rejecting you.

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I just have a feeling that with the discord unofficial viki, many moved there and collaborate there, likely unknown happenings whereas it’s not visible here on the discussions. Also what Im wondering is, how folks know about shows or drama Viki will get, when the link isn’t even published… the link is posted here but when opened it shows an error. I indeed don’t get it, how someone has seemingly early access…

And I don’t care, cos Viki isn’t Viki what it was, sadly… with so many changes I just do few projects, I don’t feel like running after whatever… Enjoy the ride while it lasts…

I do understand the frustration for some, who want to contribute and run into these difficulties.
I remember somewhere it was stated, that all contributors should be allowed to contribute and not to be denied… (under consideration of those other rules) There is selective preference going on, it is unfortunate and this isn’t new.

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What you describe here is completely different from the foul play I was talking about. That CM recruited the other person only after I had already applied, for the sole reason of having an excuse to say no to me, and then lied to me about it.

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Why did you assume such a thing? She loved it, she said that she was going to write to me. The consequences? There would be no consequences, there were good people waiting for that role. In other cases, people I wrote to refused because of various reasons. No problem at all.There are no hard feelings. People have exams, kids, hospitals, or they don’t do a certain language or don’t like some genres. I have also rejected offers because of such reasons, for instance action/thriller/horror/BL genres, or because I was moving house, or when my parents were sick and needed my care.

Yes, of course! That’s why I made an exception for those cases when it’s unfair preferences.
Manners are also important. How the person who refuses handles things, and how the person who is rejected handles things. Everything should be done in a considerate and respectful way.

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No matter how I look at it or how I try to consider it in many aspects, picking someone outside the applicants sounds unfair for me.

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