Is it sometimes okay, always, or never? I’m a Zh-En subber as well but only on the team as a segmenter. Does that factor in?
I’ve seen segmenters do that sometimes, once even a CM who told me she didn’t speak the language.
(I’m of course only talking about when the translation is in Team Notes.)
I just graduated from NSSA and want to be helpful but not burdensome 
Depends on the CM, you need to verify it for every project there is no fixed rule, but it can be that this “job” was given to someone especially. Ask the CM or if there is another person in charge that “hired” you it’s the best to avoid confusion.
thank you so much!
If so, why they can’t? Osts won’t change.
I know some teams don’t allow this, but I would like to know what are their arguments to not allow them to fill up OSTs already done, just need to copy/paste?
If some find SOLID arguments for me, I am ready to hear them. Otherwise, I’m just going to think it’s dishonesty.
[PS, at the same time, I would like to say: Please, everyone, give some respect to segmenters, it’s a really hard job, with 6 months training. Segmenters are IMPORTANT, don’t pressure them too. They are not superheroes, they are also humans, who are not freelancers, but a team.]
I’ve never been a CM, but as a subber, sometimes I need to amend the translations for the way the OST is segmented. It doesn’t happen too much, but it’s not unusual either. That’s why I mentioned that I translate for that language as well; if I didn’t speak it and any changes need to be made, how would I know and be able to handle them well?
If the segmenting template is accurate and you abide by it, that won’t be an issue. (I subbed for one show where the segmenting was consistent, but it didn’t match the lines of the translation. I ended up asking if the translation could be edited! It was, and made it easier for me to copy paste. But it was necessary for me to understand what was being said to know where and how to split the lyrics.)
I’ve also been on a drama where the ending OST suddenly changed from one episode to the next (which you might very well notice, but it’s not a guarantee), and one where the wrong part of the right song was translated (which you only noticed when you spoke the language).
As for your PS.; from the time I signed up for NSSA it was a little more than a year until I graduated^^ And the second time I segmented as a graduate, it was to check and adjust segments. This ten minute part took me 2h45! 
So yeah, segmenting is definitely hard work for me, I can’t wait until I’m more experienced :).
Btw, I still think you as my sensei, teaching me how to time segments, were the one that helped me the most I got 99.81% and 100% in my graduation videos on timing! So thank you again for all the time you took to explain it to me, and for showing me that video with the early, on time, and late segments. I can’t even tell you how much I appreciated that. <33
Mostly, OSTs segmentation should not change and episode 1 is a base reference. We are talking here mainly about Chinese dramas. Koreans ones do not have this problem. As for the beginning and final OSTs, there are always Chinese characters that appear on the screen, which allows us to know how to segment. But we have to wait for English edition, adjustments, of the first episode to be sure. After that, it’s the same until the end. Even if sometimes OST can change, once it has been segmented, translated and edited once, this is no longer a problem. This is why, it’s not a problem that segmenters fill up OST in this situation. Of course, if OSTs are not translated, they will not be able to do them anyway.
Well, for beginners, the most difficult part is correct split. Split late are the most commom for them. I noticed an evolution: they start with many split late, then they do split early. Then, they end up understanding, and their split is perfect. The second difficult thing is: where to cut.
I think the hardest part in segmentation is to segment a trailer. There are often a lot of things (speech, writings, OST) and it goes very quickly. I hate segmenting trailers. Then the hardest part is OST. But with experience and training, it gets easier. At the beginning, I also took a long time to segment. I did 1 part in 1 hour, being concentrated. Now I can do one part in 20/30 minutes, listening to music and talking to people at the same time. I think it’s a bit like learning to drive. Don’t worry, you will also progress at this stage, it will become easy one day.
You are so sweet. I’m glad it helped you understand better. As a sensei, we had, have a lot of students, but few of them give us feedback or tell us if they have really improved, or liked our training, our explanations. Sometimes we wonder why we are doing it. I am glad that you can express that you have experienced a pleasant training, with several sensei who could help you to improve yourself. Congratulations on graduating with such a good score. You worked well. You deserve it. Now we are segmentation comrades. 
You look at a segmenter’s profile page and you see that this person is on a team in a segmenting post. And then you also see a count of subtitles. It makes you wonder whether they’re an abuser or something.
It’s greedy. If I see such a thing, I will think that the segmenter only wanted to increase their contribution count. Why not give the poor subber the chance to increase his, since the subber has specifically been appointed to do this?
I sometimes do change segments as an editor, if I see that a sentence is better split or joined, because a segmenter is often in no position to judge this, not having the translation. But it’s a rare thing, it’s not to take the segmenter’s job or to increase my contributions count. I do it because it’s much quicker than having to write to the Chief Segmenter to do it and then wait.
Although I’m a fully trained segmenter, I won’t go randomly segmenting stuff if I’m not appointed as a segmenter in that team.
Do you know who the poor ones are? It’s the poor segmenters who are doing their best to provide quality segments in a short time for english translation, without receiving enough credits for this effort. Or the poor segmenters who don’t even have time to come on the episode and everything is already segmented by one person. Because after 6 months of intensive training, I think we have the right to be able to do so, and to wait for some fair sharing.
The english subtitlers also did not necessarily translate the OST, it’s generally TE / GE / CE which do it. Whether it’s a subber who does it or a segmenter, I don’t see where the problem is.
It’s not a question of increasing the subtitles, it’s ridiculous. For 10/20 segments? They can enjoy maybe doing it, or because they just want to help the English team. Why must we see abusing everywhere? As a segmenter, I rarely fill up OSTs, because I’m VERY lazy and I don’t care. But sometimes, some people want to do their best. Or just want to read the beautiful OST they just segmented, to understand what it means. It’s also called Share.
Korean dramas are different from Chinese. I know you only work on Korean, so it’s hard for you to really understand the point of this topic.
Be aware that in Chinese dramas, there is also OFTEN segmentation correction. This means that we spend 1 hour of our life to correct ONE PART of catastrophic segmentation with subs from viki or providers. Do you know what we get out of this? NOTHING. We spend 1 hour correcting and we only have a few created segments, and some copy / paste of English translations. We would spend less time segmenting everything, rather than correcting just a little part. It’s an annoying job, and we have no credits from this. That’s maybe why you can see segmenters with translation contributions.
Same for Chief Segmenter who spend 1 hours to correct 1 episode, and check quality. What do we receive? Nothing. Let’s not forget that segmenters play an important role in our community and that they are the ones who have gone through a long and difficult training.
You know, I’m also a French moderator and editor. I always translate OSTs into french for my teams. My translators just have to put them in. I could also put all the OSTs each time, if I think I was the one who made them (This is what I call abuse here). But I don’t care. You know, I once translated a drama almost entirely on my own where I was a translator. I never had the pleasure of hearing an OST, because everything was already fill up by the moderator.
I just want to say that, segmenters do an amazing job, which a lot of people don’t seem to recognize its true value because they think it’s easy. It is not easy. And we often forget the work of segmenters. So if a segmenter wants to spend 5 minutes of his/her life copying/pasting the beautiful edited OSTs, which he /she has just segmented, to help the English team, read the OSTs or any other reason. I do not see how it is abuse.
Sounds like you’re exhausted from the work because you need to have your efforts and all the time you dedicate to this acknowledged and credited?
I understand. Segmenting can be so much fun, then when you’re part of a team and a new episode is released and you get there and it’s already done - well, what about you? Especially when people finish more than one part before you even get there, right?
And all this after spending months training - giving your free time and a good amount of effort to learning this essential but often overlooked skill. A little credit would be nice, and you’re a sensei as well, training people in your free time, for free. I’m guessing you get very little from that as well in terms of created segments (or subtitles when giving feedback!), and spend a lot of time checking their finished ones and making sure you get to each student in the allotted time. That must be a ton of intense work.
Getting to hear something comparatively relaxing and nice such as an OST while fulfilling your duties must be kind of like a haven, right? A little break while not really having a break, because you’re still doing the work of segmenting or subbing. And then, when you’re actually helping the team by subbing it, going a little out of your way to do so, and to not only not receive a thank you, but to be “punished” for it, calling it abuse? That must be so upsetting.
Yes, segmenters do work hard. This is a given. But what has that to do with filling in the OST? Absolutely nothing. And of course correcting is super-annoying, we all agree with that. And the dedication of whoever does it is admirable. Is this the issue here? It’s admirable, so just stick to it.
I have corrected innumerable badly done segments in old films (which now, upsettingly, have lost their license and some of them before I could finish them) and even in whole shows, for example “Beethoven Virus”, where entire scenes were off up to 1 or 2 minutes or more. Ask piranna, we did the job together, it was a nightmare. And yes, I didn’t get any credit. It was my choice to work on this, nobody pointed a gun on my head.
If someone choses to do a job, why whine afterwards?
Yes, you don’t get an increase in contribution count when you edit segments, I fully know that. So, the lack of credit for the segments is the reason you feel entitled to take subs from the English team? Then you’ve just confirmed what I wrote before, that segmenters only do it to increase their contribution count.
How is copy-pasting OST “helping” the English team? It’s something done very easily and quickly and anyone can do it.
If they want to listen to the OST they can do while segmenting. And if they want to listen to the OST with the translation, then it’s very easy to do so once subbing is finished. You make it sound as if filling in the lyrics is the only way to enjoy a song, LOL
Each one should do their own job, that’s what I’m saying.
P.S. As a language mod, I sometimes fill in song lyrics before the translators come, because I often have to adapt their position, split them into two, merge them or very often even correct my translation of them, when I see them with a fresh eye. I don’t think this is criminal or anything.
RE: Segmenter putting in OST: As a Chief Editor on K drama I almost always do the initial subbing of the OST and then I tweak it from comments of subbers or sometimes a subber does it first and I tweak what one or two subbers have done. But fairly soon after the first appearance in the drama, the subs for the OST are “Fixed”. There are certain segmenters whom I know have great perception of Korean and I have never had any problems with them filling in the OST lyrics in English, even though they are not members of the subbing team and have huge contribution rates as subbers in their native language. I know they aren’t doing it for the contribution count – I think for them, like for me, there is satisfaction in identifying correctly what we hear in a language for which we are not native speakers.
Not at all, it’s not about me. I just don’t like this situation around me about segmenters, I feel it’s like injustice. And I really don’t like injustice. I think that accusing segmenters who fill up OSTs of abuser or something is a nonsense. It’s only a trivial question whether translators or segmenters do it. It doesn’t even deserve to be mentioned. Especially when there are other, much more serious problems affecting segmenters.
Namely, this lack of sharing (it’s a fact). Well, you are right, not necessarily the lack of “credits”, but rather a non-recognition of the work done by segmenters. Have you ever wondered where are all the beginner segmenters who are graduates of NSSA but quickly give up and don’t continue segmentation?
But right, it’s not the topic so let’s move on…
PS: same for moderators who are filling up all OST. I won’t go on this. But yes, some are criminals, and that’s not only about opinion, that’s also about respect.
You said that some segmenters have a lot of contributions, I give you the reason why. It’s not about filling OST but about hard working, by correcting…
Yes, anyone can do it. You said it, congratulations.
Irène, don’t forget that in chinese dramas it’s really different than in koreans ones. But that’s ok, you have your opinion, I have mine. Mine is: segmenters can fill up OST (already done, edited, same in the beginning and final) if they want, it’s a trivial thing. Those who don’t want them to do it have, in my opinion, zero solid reasons or arguments. When one of you brings me a solid argument, I will reconsider it. For now, this is not the case.
Yes, it can be one of the reasons why some segmenters doing it. I think it’s not a problem at all.
PS2: Piranna fill up all OST when she segment. And it’s not to increase her contributions. She just wants to do it.
Still the correct thing is to ASK. If the English mod / Chief Editor is okay with it, then why not. But it’s not a “given” right.
There’s no need to fight about this.
I don’t remember what my senseis told me back at that time about OSTs during the training and I don’t remember when I first segmented OSTs after nssa graduation and what I have asked or not when I began.
Nonetheless, I don’t ask authorization to fill songs appearing in Team Notes that I fall upon while segmenting (I took this habit) and since now, I have never met CMs or subtitlers or editors who told segmenters they couldn’t.
Myself, I don’t say anything about that to segmenters, same for English editors in the same team I was in. They don’t say anything to segmenters except a segment is missing or to cut it differently (too long or another sentence) if the English editors don’t know segmenting.
And receiving and giving instructions as a CM or by the CM or the English mods, segmenters and English subbers/editors have never fight for this type of thing from my knowledge.
It’s in general about 5-15 lines over 400.
And we don’t foresee what part we will segment (p1 with opening, p4 with ending). I generally don’t fight to have these parts because it asks me to check team notes and respect it line by line.
My pov and my experience for songs (opening, ending, other songs)
When I segment a part that happens to have songs:
I have to recognize if it’s a song already in Team Notes so I have to check Team Notes.
I already make the effort to match it line by line and look in Team notes or previous episodes to segment it properly, it’s not for the subtitler to recheck if I segmented line by line and to recheck lyrics in Team Notes to copy paste them.
I find it a waste of time for both the segmenter and the subtitler, because we do the same thing 2x. I’ve already checked the lyrics in Team Notes.
if it’s a new song: I just comment new song not in team notes yet so the English team knows.
from what I have seen:
And then, English editors lose time to re-edit songs or they could miss it.
Which makes the chief segmenter if there is one to take time to check and fix that. Or if he misses it, the English editor fixes it. Or everyone can miss it. It can happen, just human errors.
Also, when the song segment was not segmented correctly line by line, I have seen English subbers taking that into account and we have song subtitles like:
I love you. I think
I’m crazy about you
He just subtitled what he heard, which is normal.
And that’s why I think to avoid that, I prefer to fill songs in my part.
This is more safe and less time consuming for a subtitler (50 ep × 6 min to fill songs = 300 min = 5 hours for a subtitler = 2-4 ep that an English subber could have subtitled instead. For me, this is evident that to gain time on that, the segmenter can fill them).
For quality and time factors, I am for filling songs by segmenters and it makes them check the quality at least for songs.
It’s not something I usually ask, because it is not about correcting someone else’s work (edition) or doing someone else’s work because otherwise all songs should be filled by the author and I think it’s a burden to function like that.
There is no harm done, and for me, on the contrary, it is more efficient. This is what I concluded from checking segments done by segmenters in the same team or seeing how English subbers and editors don’t seem to oppose to song segments filled by the segmenter who made segments for them.
There are things I think we don’t need to ask and I would put this in this category for the reasons above. I would even put this in what a segmenter should automatically do lol checking TN or old ep and filling songs while segmenting them. It’s a good practice to get.
Now the reason why some other seggers or I don’t ask, my hypothesis is:
So either the segmenter or the subtitler, I don’t think people like to copy paste because they can segment or subtitle a whole drama without copying pasting. I think it’s not really interesting for the segger or the subber, so I would say that if we don’t say or ask anything, it’s because… just asking about that is like… mmm so I have to tell if I want the subbers to do it for me or I can do it myself lol
I can also tell I will fill songs, but then I have to fill for each part I do… it’s an engagement which is less freedom for me when I’ll be lazier lol
If the subtitler absolutely wants to fill songs, I will surely let him. For 5-15 lines to copy paste, there is no personal gain for me, on the contrary if the subber wants me to gain more time, I totally agree! I won’t fight for sure!
guys!
I don’t like the copypaste parts… if I could chose I’d always avoid that because translating is way faster than copypasting plus the copypasting of the OSTs sometimes causes bugs and with bad luck the bug deletes ALL my already translated dialogues… so at some point I used to copypaste the OST always at first in case the subtitle editor starts bugging around again so I don’t have to translate multiple times…
I’ve never had that experience, that all the subs get deleted because I was copy pasting a lyric. It’s most likely a bug connected to your browser. Is it still happening?
On Chinese dramas I love to copy paste the first and final song. It marks the beginning and the end of each successfully completed episode, and so it has become cathartic for me. I can do it so fast now, you wouldn’t believe it!
Since I copypaste the lyrics now before I start translating, I don’t know. I got the bug somewhat last year when VIKI was changing its layout and it happened several times, once with a full loss of my finished translation for that part.
How can I see if it is a browser related bug? Or how to prevent a browser related bug?
-> Moderator
I have never filled OST when I moderate lol because I know some subbers like to make a complete part including pasting OST. They can begin from 0 until they see they hit 100%. Or subbing a part entirely. It can be satisfying and I think they feel the same cathartic effect you’re talking about so I let them.
And a mod-editor has so much editing to do xd I hate editing
-> Subtitler
I like short parts lol less work!
If it’s an old channel or a channel that doesn’t interest people or at the middle when most are giving up and I finish alone or with 2 ppl, we or I do binge subbing like binge watching.
The worst ennemy in binge watching = ost
It is the same for binge subbing.
Each time I have to look in the googlesheet to copy paste or to find the vocabulary in the googlesheet, it is killing the binge subbing focus.
Maybe because we pass from subtitling to copy pasting or we know how to subtitle a nickname or a fantasy location/weapon/skills name but we have to keep the same term used in previous eps.
It is the same for segmenting. If I am in a binge segmenting and I have to segment songs and osts following something already set, it kills the binge segging because I have to look for the lyrics or previous eps.
It is necessary, but sometimes, can’t help feeling reluctant or just lazy xd
I’m just assuming it’s the browser-computer combo, and because Viki was changing stuff in the system. There was a lot of errors going on at the time.
I sometimes get small losses, like a sub or two can’t be saved even when I refresh. They explained this happens when one of the servers in charge of lining up the subs to be saved fails. We’re just supposed to wait for the server to be restarted and then it’s back to regular business.
I’ve heard of big losses from people in the Discussions, but they would happen only occasionally, when something much bigger was going wrong.