Proposal for new NSSA Italian Subbing Academy

[irmar]

@tony83n_283

Dear Antonela,

Re-reading the whole conversation with a rested mind this morning.
Frankly,

• the fact that you formatted your first post in all bold font,
• the curtness of your answers,
• the fact that you yourself said that you didn’t really wish to be part of this conversation but felt you had to (why?),
• the fact that you seemed not to have properly read what I wrote (since you repeatedly attributed things to me that were the opposite of what I clearly state in my document),
• and the whole general vibe you gave
  was not of someone who came here with an open mind, like a blank page, with a neutral curiosity of “let’s see what this is about”, but rather like someone who had already heard negative things about it by a trusted person.
  That’s the feeling I got. I may be totally wrong, of course, and I sincerely hope I am (and apologize in advance if that is the case).
  But even if my hunch is correct, it’s only natural that we instinctively trust the words and opinions of a long-time collaborator more than those of a stranger. Therefore, even if I feel a bit disappointed, I’m not saying (or believing) you’re a bad person because of that.
  Most of us are not 100% good nor 100% bad, we’re human beings. Most of us start with good intentions, they are not out to hurt others. Sometimes we get influenced by our life so far, our beliefs and our feelings, and that’s okay.

I also did that once. Oh, probably more than once, only that I am not aware of it.
Let me tell you a story.

There was a new kid at my son’s school. Everyone in the class was 14, but he was two years older because he didn’t understand the language well. He was tall and muscular, practically a man. At that age, two years is a big difference. One day my son came home with a red and watery eye. When I asked, he told me that this boy had punched him and also that he had stuffed the blackboard eraser sponge full of chalk dust into another boy’s mouth. My Mediterranean mom’s blood boiled.
Next day I went to school when they were all coming out. I planted myself in front of that boy, belligerantly saying: “If you dare to lay hands on my son again, I won’t sit still, you’ll have to deal with me”.
Some months later, that boy went back to his country because of his parents’ job, so we never heard of him again.
Very recently I remembered and mentioned that episode and my son told me:
“Mom, you know, it wasn’t as bad as you made it to be. We were all messing around, we also taunted and teased him. It’s just that he was so much bigger and stronger than us, so he didn’t calculate his strength well and whatever he did had more impact”.
I felt so remorseful when I heard that. I should have been more cool-headed. I should have investigated more and asked both sides of the story before playing the action heroine.
But does that make me a bad person? It was only human, and probably the boy - who is now a fully-grown adult - will not even remember the incident anymore.

I am 65 now, I have done my share of unwise things in my life, so I’m not so quick to judge other people as I was in my younger years. I give anyone the benefit of the doubt and they have to really show bad faith for me to give up on them. I also had a very close brush with death two years ago, so I don’t let negative things get to me and trouble me as much as they did before. I can weather storms.

So please don’t feel judged, don’t feel I am against you or anything like that. You are someone I think highly of in this community. And that’s also why I tagged you.

Have a nice day, my dear, and let’s both keep trying the best for all involved around here, each one in her own way.

I’m looking forward to hearing from other people who took the trouble of reading my proposal.

[Kirara_chan]

Cara Irene, ti scrivo qui in quanto moderatrice del gruppo ISA (Italian Subbing Academy). Ho provato a cercare un dialogo chiedendoti un confronto sul gruppo della comunità italiana. Ti hanno risposto in parecchi con modi civili e garbati, manifestando come me il loro disappunto sulle modalità che hai utilizzato, ma con l’intenzione di dialogare. Non hai voluto proseguire scrivendo che trovavi inutile stare lì a discuterne con ognuna di noi separatamente in un mare di commenti e che preferivi farlo qui, sul gruppo Discussion. Perché se il focus è l’ISA?
Nel passato hai partecipato votando anche tu il percorso dell’accademia, sono state vagliate le varie proposte tra cui le tue, non hanno raggiunto la maggioranza. Pazienza, si chiama democrazia.
Il percorso è stato approvato da NSSA non è che possiamo cambiarlo ogni volta che ci pare.
Sul gruppo si decide invitando la comunità italiana a votare e alcune questioni vengono prima vagliate dal gruppo delle sensei (circa 20 persone e non 3/4) sempre a maggioranza. Una di queste è la semplificazione del percorso su suggerimento del capo delle academy di lingua affinché ci sia più uniformità tra le varie academy.
Di questa tua proposta veniamo a conoscenza qui su Discussion, a noi non l’hai sottoposta. A me non hai mandato nemmeno la mail su Viki che pare sia invece stata spammata a tutti dove proponi quanto sopra. E tu questa la chiami trasparenza?
Evidentemente abbiamo due concetti diversi di trasparenza e certamente non ci ritieni meritevoli di considerazione e fiducia, la stessa che noi invece ti abbiamo accordato in tutti questi anni, dei tuoi corsi privati qui su Viki siamo tutti a conoscenza, nessuno ha mai avuto da ridire perché esiste il libero arbitrio e su Viki non ci sono corsi obbligatori.
NSSA non è una scuola, possiamo rinfrescare qualche regola di grammatica o d’inglese, ma non insegniamo nulla. Puntiamo solo a dei buoni sottotitoli per il nostro piacere e per il piacere di chi i drama li guarda.
Puoi esprimere disappunto, possono esprimerlo anche altri membri, va bene, è normale che accada, trovami una comunità dove tutti vanno d’accordo. Si scende a compromessi, funziona così su Viki e fuori Viki, è la vita. Fino a che potremo scegliere, all’interno dell’ISA, le decisioni verranno prese democraticamente.
Sei hai piacere di discutere con noi della tua proposta puoi farlo sul gruppo ISA, ti aspettiamo.

Dear Irene, I’m writing this comment as the NSSA ISA Moderator (Italian Subbing Academy). I’ve tried seeking dialogue with you, with the hope of having a confrontation about all this within the Italian community group. Many of our members have answered there, civilly and politely, manifesting their disappointment in how you decided to approach the issue, but still trying to discuss things with you. You stopped things by saying that you found the idea of having to answer to each comment useless, given the many interventions in the post we published, and that you preferred doing it here, on Discussion. Why, since this matter regards the ISA?
In the past, you participated in the making of the training course, voting our options and ideas - and yours were among them, but they just didn’t reach a majority. That’s democracy, it’s normal! Moreover, the training path was approved by the NSSA, it’s not like we can change it every time we want.
In the group, everything is decided by letting the community vote - some matters are first screened by our Sensei group, which is made of more or less 20 people (not 3 or 4), and always by majority. One of these matters is the simplification of the training path, as recommended by the Chief of the Subtitling Division, in order to uniform as much as we can all languages academies.
We came to know about this proposal of yours through this Discussion post, you never proposed it to us. I didn’t even receive the message about it that you sent to everyone else on Viki. Is this transparency, for you?
I guess we have two different ideas of transparency, and it’s also obvious that you do not take us as deserving of consideration and trust - things we always granted you in all these years. We knew about your separate course on Viki and no one has ever opposed this, since free will exists and there are no mandatory language courses on this platform.
The NSSA is not a school - we can certainly remind subbers of grammar rules related to Italian and English, but “teaching” is going a bit too far. We aim to reach quality in translation because that is what we desire and what we want the audience to have.
You can express your disappointment, and other members can do the same - it’s totally normal, I think there is no community out there where everyone goes along with no problem at all. We all need to compromise, on Viki and outside Viki - that’s life! As long as we’ve a say on it, within the NSSA ISA, decisions will always be taken democratically.

If you want to discuss with us about your proposal, you can do it in our ISA group. We’ll be waiting for you!

[xylune]

@irmar

was not of someone who came here with an open mind, like a blank page, with a neutral curiosity of “let’s see what this is about”

Well, I doubt that a majority comes here with such mindset. Those who are active are aware that Viki is full of community issues. Not to forget that every language community has their own struggles. Viki is full of these stories, and usually our own community’s stories are already tiring enough.
So you start to wonder why you should even take part in this matter and if you feel like playing the part that has been assigned to you… but I guess I just like to have some sort of third opinion about some matters:

First, our language community has no NSSA yet, but the stories I heard from others didn’t really convince me either. The idea itself isn’t a bad one, and I guess most of us will agree to this. But all the posts make me think that there are not a lot of external standards that even guarantee its value, and it’s doubtful that anyone feels obliged to seriously question these old structures. In the worst case, one person decides how to teach translation to a couple of contributors despite the fact that there are tons of aspects that can be considered. Just like your proposal (@irmar) shows right away that you focus on Korean shows. Even though these are rare these days and most of our contributors rather work on Chinese or Japanese shows over the last year. The amount of Thai shows increased as well. I would even guess that many contributors never even participate in Korean shows nowadays. So cultural aspects should either be explained equally or based on personal interest in my opinion.

Anyway, I doubt that evaluation based on NSSA only can be easily transferred to other language communities. All of them have individual structures by now, and it’s rather difficult to change those. Some sort of quality assurance and evaluation for every program would be recommended in my opinion. This would offer the chance as well to get away from the whole “It’s not my language, I don’t care what they do” and paves the way for a truly international community.

[irmar]

Sorry, sorry, I had just woken up I wrote the two first letters wrong and autocomplete made me screw up!
I corrected it, so you can delete your message and I will delete this one.

[irmar]

@Kirara_chan

Ti hanno risposto in parecchi con modi civili e garbati,
(Many of our members have answered there, civilly and politely)

Sono davvero senza parole. La tua definizione di civile e garbato è proprio agli antipodi della mia. Direi che in questo momento è difficile trovarci d’accordo in qualcosa tranne il fatto che la pensiamo diversamente. Io le mie risposte le ho date, sia nel gruppo che - ampiamente sviluppate - nella proposta stessa, quindi non ha molto senso ripetere le nostre opinioni che già conosciamo.

Ha ha… Sorry, I am at loss of words. It’s a pity that people who are reading this cannot see some examples of those civil and polite things that were written there. It was as if they were only waiting for a chance. As if someone had given a signal “Hunting season is open”.
It seems that your and my definition of the terms “civil and polite” is diametrically different.
About the rest of your comment. I have already replied to all of this, albeit briefly, in the group, but most of the answers are in my proposal itself.
I think we can agree to disagree and leave it there, at least for now, as there is no positive energy in the air and nothing good will come of further exchange of the same and same words, since we already know well enough each other’s opinion on the matter.

[irmar]

@bozoli

The program seems a bit too intense for a mere position of a subber. In my opinion it’s much more suited for Editor/Moderator training. I’m just thinking that motivation is important for newbies. Everything takes ages in the beginning - first ten contributions feel like a hundred. And the younger generations tend to be on the impatient side, wanting to contribute sooner, rather than later.

See, I wanted the description of each level to be brief, so I didn’t expand much. But since I have this experience of four years doing a similar course for subbers, we don’t go into much depth for each subject, as you would, for instance, in a university course, which specializes. Here it’s rather a gathering of all the things that, over the years, I’ve seen that crop up most frequently while working on dramas. And it’s not done only as a boring lecture, or having to read long texts devoting many hours. It’s much less serious than that! For instance, in one meeting, apart from a translation exercise, there might be an assignment for each participant to watch a 15-20 minute video and read a short news article on a subject (for instance, one on the SAT exams, one on how exhausting is the life of school students, one on the position of women, one on chaebol families and how they rule Corea, one on the sampo generation). Then, each one presents to all of us their assigned subject. Instead of me talking all the time. And watching YT videos is much more fun that listening to a lecture, isn’t it?
This is just an example. We raise awareness of issues that appear in dramas and that explain what we encounter in them, but we don’t delve into them. If someone finds it interesting and wants to go deeper and learn more, I provide resources to do so.
See what I mean? Same for editing. We do editing exercises, but that’s because each subber must be their own “editor”, when reading again their work before submitting it. Knowing what to look for, so that the eye is ready to spot problematic areas more quickly and easily. But that doesn’t mean that that is enough to become an editor! This said, most editors naturally evolve from the pool of subbers, so let’s say that this opens the eyes of the participant to the issues, so if one has the talent and inclination, they may focus more on that on their own and slowly gravitate towards that role.

I know that new subbers are eager to start. But the course not being compulsory, there’s nothing stopping them. On the contrary, getting some hands-on experience on existing dramas will enable them to have a contributor profile page (that now, with the very recent development, nobody has if they haven’t done at least a few contributions) and be seen.
Another idea is to say that whoever wants can stop after the basic and the two first levels (level 1 English comprehension and common mistakes and level 2 Target language style). And give a “basic badge” for this (just as the existing Italian Subbing Academy does). Whoever wants to continue with the Korean, Chinese and Practice/Lyrics/Specialist lingo levels, they can, and this will lead to the full subber badge. A little like what is done in university with bachelor degree (2 years) and Masters’ degree (another 3 years). In Italy, we didn’t have all this. It was just 5 years, in my time. You either did 5 years or didn’t get any piece of paper. At some point, they split the 5 years based on the English model, for “impatient young people”. So we could do the same here, why not?

@xylune

your proposal (@irmar) shows right away that you focus on Korean shows. Even though these are rare these days and most of our contributors rather work on Chinese or Japanese shows over the last year. The amount of Thai shows increased as well.

You are saying that because I delve into the “Korean word order” issue and because I gave the Korean culture and language two weeks, but Chinese-Japanese only one week?
Well, that word order issue 1) is a serious problem, sometimes you can’t even understand what the subtitle is trying to say, let alone how to translate it and 2) does not exist in the same way for Chinese-English translations because from what I understand Chinese does not have the S.O.V. (subject-object-verb) structure.
Of course there are still problems specific to the Chinese, some idiomatic expressions difficult to translate, which can be tackled by the sensei of the relevant level.
Yes, the Chinese level can easily be made of 2 weeks as well. No problem with that!
I just thought that much of what we call Korean culture is taken from Chinese culture anyway, during the long years of cultural influence: for example Neo-Confucianism, the patriarchy, the government system, levels and ranks, the position of women, even science, mathematics, the calendar-lunar year, astrology and so on. Even the alphabet was the same until recently. Therefore, once learned one, it is sufficient to note that these things are common and just point out the different directions they have taken throughout the centuries. But if it is argued that Chinese-Japanese also needs 2 weeks, then why not? The contents of that level should be discussed with people who have deeper knowledge on Chinese-related subjects than I do, and I welcome any ideas, because yes, that’s not my expertise.

UPDATE: After the helpful suggestions, I changed the Chinese/Japanese level to 2 weeks, and I also inserted a “mid-way” badge after the first two levels.

[rewind95]

@irmar

Ha ha… Sorry, I am at loss of words. It’s a pity that people who are reading this cannot see some examples of those civil and polite things that were written there

I’m saddened to read your statement because, in my opinion, no one in the ISA was disrespectful towards you.

In the spirit of transparency, I’ll share the translation of my post from our Face-book group where I tagged you.

I apologize if I came across as a bit brusque in my comment about other communities. I tend to be straightforward, and while I appreciate every feedback from other communities, I still believe that each Subtitling Academy should have autonomy and shouldn’t interfere with each other.

As usual, I’m a little bit late, but I still wanted to share my point of view. I’ll keep it brief because I’ve read many opinions that perfectly reflect mine, so there’s no need to go on at length.

First of all, I found the post in Discussion to be disrespectful towards NSSA members, not just towards the Sensei but also towards the subbers. You tagged some Sensei from other Academies to get their feedback, but you didn’t tag anyone from ISA. Why? And furthermore… why should they have the right to dictate how our Academy should or shouldn’t operate? You have every right to complain if you believe something isn’t working - and indeed I think you did well to write to Robert privately - but I don’t understand the logic of tagging members from other communities.

That said, I’ve read some comments both here on Face-book and especially on Discussion that I’d like to address. We talk a lot about transparency… but it’s easier said than done. From what I’ve seen, some things have been forcefully interpreted in your favor at the expense of ISA.

-No one was ever forced to leave; it was their decision.

- No subber was rejected from projects because they’re not part of NSSA. It’s true that the searching posts are made here on Face-book, so when and if they write on VIKI, it’s very likely that the team would be already complete. But this doesn’t exclude anyone from being free to choose whoever they want for their teams. And I was one of those who “made myself be heard” when the proposal to only take a certain number of non-NSSA subbers in their projects was put forward. (Although the majority decided against it, and it wasn’t implemented)
- You claimed that a Sensei was promoted without going through the whole process or lacking qualifications, despite being very “hard-working”. Who? Because, from what I could observe from the outside, no one was promoted to Sensei out of nowhere. There was a transition from Jr Sensei to Senior Sensei, but both individuals in question went through their evaluation process.

---

Come al solito, arrivo tardi, ma volevo comunque condividere il mio punto di vista. Sarò breve perché ho letto molte opinioni che rispecchiano perfettamente la mia, quindi non ha senso dilungarsi troppo.

Innanzitutto, ho trovato il post in Discussion una mancanza di rispetto nei confronti dei membri della NSSA, non solo Sensei ma anche subber. Hai taggato Sensei di altre Accademy per avere un loro riscontro, ma non hai taggato nessuna della ISA. Perché? E inoltre… perché dovrebbero aver il diritto di sindacare su come la nostra Accademy dovrebbe o non dovrebbe funzionare? Hai tutto il diritto di lamentarti se credi che una cosa non funzioni - e infatti ritengo che hai fatto bene a scrivere a Robert in privato - ma non capisco il senso di taggare membri di altre community.

Detto questo, ho letto alcuni commenti sia qui su Face-book, ma soprattutto su Discussion su cui vorrei soffermarmi. Parliamo tanto di trasparenza… ma è facile a dirsi, difficile a farsi. Da quanto ho potuto constatare, alcune cose sono state forzatamente interpretate a tuo favore a discapito della ISA.

• Nessuno è mai stato obbligato ad andarsene, è stata una loro decisione.

• Nessun subber è stato rifiutato nei progetti perché non è parte della NSSA. È vero che i post vengono fatti qui, quindi quando e se scrivono su VIKI è molto facile che il team sia al completo. Ma ciò non esclude che chiunque sia libero di prendere chi vuole nei propri team. E io sono stata una di quelle che “ha alzato” la voce quando è stata avanzata la proposta di prendere solo un tot di subber non NSSA nei propri progetti.

• Hai detto che una sensei è stata promossa senza aver fatto il percorso o senza le qualifiche, pur essendo molto “hard-working”. Chi? Perché, almeno da quanto ho potuto osservare dall’esterno, nessuno è stato promosso a Sensei dal nulla. C’è stato un passaggio da Jr Sensei a Senior Sensei, ma entrambe le persone in questione hanno fatto il proprio percorso.

[irmar]

@rewind95

You tagged some Sensei from other Academies to get their feedback, but you didn’t tag anyone from ISA. Why? And furthermore… why should they have the right to dictate how our Academy should or shouldn’t operate?

You know we have the right to tag only a maximum of 10 people in Discussions posts.
Before the post here, I had sent the proposal to the four NSSA chiefs as directed by the NSSA post about submissions for new academies. I knew that Robert from the NSSA would immediately tell the Italian senseis (since the matter involved them), and I was 100% sure that they would get to know it quick as the wind. But it was important to me to get feedback from other senior people who have tackled the same subjects over the years, to get their opinions. I never said “dictate”. I said “share opinions and feedback”. It’s interesting how my words and meanings get twisted into something they are not.

No subber is refused because of not having a badge? Are you serious? Even I, in 2016, when I wrote to one of the Italian moderators to apply for a project, was immediately directed to the FB group and to the Academy test. That conversation must still be at the beginning of my Viki inbox. I could find it and quote, but, you know, privacy issues…
And I’ve heard countless subbers who have told me the same story, again and again. (Not to mention the fact that it’s even difficult to get to know about new projects unless you’re in the NSSA FB group.)
Yes, it’s not “compulsory”, technically speaking. There are ways that are very “convincing” without compulsion. When the Muslims took over other countries, in the Middle Ages or a bit later, they had a rule that whoever didn’t convert to Islam couldn’t take any higher government job and also couldn’t bequeath his property to his children after death, it would all go to the state. Otherwise, converting was not compulsory or “forced”

About becoming senior sensei. Is there a path for becoming that as there is a path for other levels? A way to get upgraded from junior to senior, either through training or through tests or through doing specific jobs in specific projects? Not that I know of, and none is mentioned in the guides or on the website. Case closed.
Do I think that the one recenty promoted was worth it? 100%. I think she’s really good and I fully applaud that promotion! But what I’m saying is that it did not happen through a path open to anyone who also wishes to.

[bailong]

I see you put a lot of effort into this, but I think this is way overkill. I don’t think to be a good translator, you have to pass on exams from korean/chinese culture, mythology and have to know medical, business, law etc. terms. These are separate professions. Also, many people only will do a specific genre. So this is unnecessary. This proposal would be “ok” if you want to select the more knowledgeable people from the crowd, and mark them with something. But again, it will raise questions. This method might work within the Italians, but I know, if we would do the same in my country, cheaters would appear, and the questions with the answers would be on the net very quickly. Also, volunteers come here out of their passion, because of a sudden feeling, that they want to do this. Like this, you will just scare away the potentially good ones, as I cant see that many volunteers gonna go through a 2-3 months program, just to be able to work for free.

For newbies it would be more necessary to test their translator skills, as you mentioned in the first point. I would give them randomly a test video to sub, then check if their language knowledge is sufficient, and has enough grammar knowledge in the goal language, and even know enough synonyms. (My language is famous about that, we have 100s of words for everything…) If someone get through this, I would make the person first collaborate on modern dramas. A helper should monitor the work, and slowly teach the specific things. If someone good, you don’t have to test the person for months. If someone not worth it, you will find out very quickly. So I would try to check/ensure someones quality, rather than teaching every possible drama’s background.

[irmar]

@bailong

I think this is way overkill. I don’t think to be a good translator, you have to pass on exams from korean/chinese culture, mythology

To be a good translator in general, no. I am a professional translator in real life and I can tell you that most of us eventually specialize in some things. Because if you don’t, the amount of work spent in research is overwhelming and not worth it.
For instance, I have an expertise in music and the arts. But it so happens that it’s mostly in classical music. So when they entrusted me a book about a 20th century composer, I had to buy and study books on atonal music, serial music etc. and I really got a headache (also, I hate that music). And while translating, I had to stop at every line to look up a word. It was a chore, took me lots of time. Fortunately it was well-paid, but I didn’t enjoy doing it at all.
Here at Viki, we do specialize in Asian drama. So it makes sense to have a basic sprinkling of all the things you routinely encounter while tackling projects, so that you don’t have to look it up, so that you won’t ignore it or misunderstand it. But it’s only the basics, the most frequently found stuff, not an in-depth study. After all, a couple of weeks wouldn’t be enough for an in-depth study anyway! See my reply to bozoli on that.

@bailong

if we would do the same in my country, cheaters would appear, and the questions with the answers would be on the net very quickly. Also, volunteers come here out of their passion, because of a sudden feeling, that they want to do this. Like this, you will just scare away the potentially good ones, as I cant see that many volunteers gonna go through a 2-3 months program, just to be able to work for free.

That’s why, if you look at the final test, I stress that the answers should be personal opinions and not something which can be found in the reference material. Also, answers to questions are not the only criterion the senseis would consider in their final decision. It’s about the whole general impression the person has made throughout the course: their involvement, their responses in live interactions, their translation skills of course, how they present assignments etc. Some people will still find ways to cheat? Probably. So what? After all it’s not as if this badge means some material gain or gives them any special priviledge. It’s not meant for that. And, you know what? Even if you search and find the answers online, it’s still learning about the subject, isn’t it? When we translate, we do have dictionaries and other resources open in our browser window. It’s not a question of remembering everything by heart but of where to find what you’re looking for.

AGAIN: This thing is not compulsory, it’s not a prerequisite for working. Anyone can start working right away, can start working while doing the course, can also work successfully without ever taking it. What made you think they are a requirement?
I personally think that the rewards are much more than being able to contribute to Viki. I think it is enriching to learn more about the English language, about your own, about other cultures etc. So let’s say that this course is for those who also think like that. The others can just not take it. Or take only the basic and the first two levels and then leave it. You make it seem much stricter than it’s intended to be.

[mas4]

I like level 1 (English comprehension) and level 2 (Fluency and style).
For me, these are the basics and a badge could be awarded after passing these two levels.

However, the following levels should be optional. I find the course too long. I’m afraid this will discourage newcomers and lead to many dropouts, as they’re often impatient to start contributing.

[irmar]

Yes, why not? I am not adverse to this. A medium-level badge and a full badge. No problem.

[crimac]

Dear Irmar,
here are my thoughts about your proposal:

• Personally, I would streamline the courses following the Segging Academy model (which worked very well for me and was very efficient), so as to finish them in 4-6 months

• The course/project you proposed (which is similar to the one I attended with you years ago) has interesting insights that could be helpful for everyone, both old and new volunteers, regardless of whatever “new model” of course is decided on (if any)

• In principal, I agree that every community should periodically elect its own representatives via a majority vote by its members

• I think that your project should be developed/implemented independently from any existing group, either alone or in collaboration with anyone who wants to participate.

Personally, I appreciate your enthusiasm and your contribution in trying to help the Italian community. Thank you for that. Cristina

[irmar]

@crimac

I would streamline the courses following the Segging Academy model (which worked very well for me and was very efficient), so as to finish them in 4-6 months

My goal is MUCH less than that. Three months at the most!
And yes, my course was indeed modelled on the time-proven format of the Segging Academy course, which I also deeply appreciated and thoroughy enjoyed: the five levels with different senseis, the fact that you have to pass one level before moving to the next, the fact that you can stop at some point if you wish…

[mirjam_465]

@irmar

the fact that you can stop at some point if you wish…

But then you never graduate and for segmenters, this means never getting to work on a project. Or are you talking about a temporary break?

[irmar]

@mirjam_465

But then you never graduate and for segmenters, this means never getting to work on a project.

For segmenters yes, it means no work, because nobody can know segmenting without the course. For translation it’s not the same thing. Some people have skills or talent even before coming to Viki.