Sorry if I’m being too negative. But I’ve been involved since the ViiKii days and I’m concerned about its future. Being in San Francisco, I’ve seen countless startups being acquired, then mismanaged by the buyer, and then finally abandoned/closed with a tax write off for a bad investment. I really don’t want that to happen to Viki.
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So I was under the impression that, despite the sale, the creators of Viki were still more or less in control of the content and site. Like, Rakuten could supply a platform for more content and features, but ultimately it comes down to how Viki pushes it…? (I mean, like, Viki creators are still in charge of the site, though they don’t necessarily own it.) Is that not how it works?
I don’t know much about business and the like, so maybe my view on it is too optimistically skewed.
I think that all business has it’s risks. I understand why you’re worried and I admit I wasn’t so happy when I heard the news, but I think it’s too soon to be already talking about how viki might end. I’ve also heard good things about Rakuten, so maybe they can do it right. Who knows? It’s an investment. I didn’t like some of viki changes, but I enjoyed others. The world keeps changing everyday and we can’t expect everything will be the same forever.
I do understand you, I do. Actually, I like the fact that you talked about this subject here. I think that’s something we all should discuss about. But I agree with @miliefleurie, too. Let’s wait and see. And yes, let’s talk about it.
In my opinion it’s really important to read as many points of view as possible about such a thing, since this is so important to all of us 
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Maybe at the beginning, the creators will continue to run Viki. But Rakuten is a huge Japanese e-commerce company like Amazon and they didn’t buy Viki because they just happened to like dramas. Rakuten is into making money from advertising and e-commerce sales of goods and services. Just google and learn more.
Thanks for your comments. I agree that sometimes I can be too cranky and pessimistic. Maybe Rakuten will be a good manager of its investment and Viki will thrive by taking good care of its volunteers (and maybe even share in the future a little of the wealth) and provide wonderful content to viewers around the world. I think I’m most upset with the way Viki insiders “communicated” this deal to the Viki community: releasing the news in the middle of a 3-day holiday in the US so that many still don’t know about the sale, misleading spins on where the money is going, lack of transparency on details of the sale, and most importantly, absolute lack of appreciation or reward for all of the volunteers who created the value that the insiders are now cashing in on.
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I understand your worries. The first thing I thought when I saw the news was “oh gosh, will the staff be ok? Will they be kicked out?” After asking, I was told that no, they will not be kicked out, they will not reduce the team, they will make it bigger.
I will believe that good things will come, I want viki to stay and to grow a lot more. I really love this community and that’s why I want to cheer you, but people worries are understandable!
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Of course it’s good to talk about it, and thank you for talking about it! If nobody talked about this matter, I would have never heard about it!
okay how are you doing ?
I am happy to have replies here as transparency about the viki processing is what’s lacking. Nothing I’ve said is new to the viki volunteers.
2. The TW dramas have been lost but also we didn’t get the rights to some dramas I think. After subbing was done. One being Summer Fever.
3. Yes you can’t tell us while negotiations are in progress- but the agreements are coming in during the week before airing. Which is surprising because there are not many companies providing subtitles for K drama besides DF, viki, MBC America, KBS world. So seeing DF and viki provide the biggest number of airing dramas license- and if fans knows about the dramas at least 5-6 months before, it’s really difficult to plan a team when we only know 1 week or hours before the drama airs. Or nowadays, we get backdated episodes anything from 2-10 episodes all uploaded onto viki at once. My suggestions- keep the channel managers updated at least 1 month before. Because the negotiation team would know best what obstacles are preventing the content provider from signing the agreement. Whether multiple dramas are being negotiated at once. Or another Asian country has brought the rights to air it already. Sungkyunkwan Scandal has one of the most restricted language for subbing still on viki. So it’s not as I am not used to the variable conditions within a licensed drama on viki.
On viki, the biggest issue has always been communication with your QCs. Because yes we are not paid, but it doesn’t mean viki doesn’t get professional quality work that equates to dollars for the work we do. Even if we are not paid, our time and effort should not be ignored. There are not that many airing Korean or TW dramas airing each week. And the pool of CM on viki for those countries are pretty small. I would say we number less than 15 of us even with all the currently airing KD and TW.
I am not ignoring the other language and other country channel managers but the KD/TW bring in huge volume of people for us to answer to. And it hampers us when we don’t get answers from viki. It’s like a Call Center that does not receive feedback from the company. About the latest company changes.
So let’s say the old answer is that the viki staff received 500 pms a day. I would be generous and say 1500-200 a day now? But then the CM can get 100+ emails themselves from team members to viewers per week, that we have to answer. So please, communication will go a long way for us.
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I agree with you that the channel manager needs to have more informations way before the new drama begins. Since there is a lot to do before a drama, it’s not to be picky, or asking too much. Just taking Good Doctor as an example, it’s a big job to prepare since it’s a hard work to do with all the special terms.
I totally agree that the managers should have all the informations that are related to the drama, as soon as they are updated.
Communication are one of the most important thing between everyone, it includes staff and moderators (=^•^=)
Hi ck1,
Can I get your opinion on something? How many man-hours do you estimate it takes to sub a typical 16 episode kdrama from Korean to English? Factor in all the seggers, subbers, editors, moderator and manager time for just subbing into English. I know that moderators and managers typically deal with multiple simultaneous language subbing, but just try to estimate the hours for the English side. I would like to get a sense of the dollar value of the Viki volunteers. Thanks for your help.
Maybe… For experimented teams like ck’s…
Segs 3 hours (total)
Subs about… 5-6 hours
Editing about 3-4 hours (3 pers. / 1 hour minimum)
The fastest I saw on my team on french channels
Subbing 3-4 hours (minimum)
Editing 3-4 hours (for easy dramas)
I used to spend more than 5 hours on only one episode of 1 hour (just for edition). And my subbers are good. It’s only that sometimes it’s not easy!!!
I am curious to see the ck’s answer, she will be a lot more accurate than me since I only see the english team from the side, while waiting my turn
are those hours per episode?
Yes, those sound like they’re per episode.
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Yes, for one episode. And I took the time for a really fast team. So, it’s the minimum a team needs to sub one episode.
Many variables can affect these numbers. Bugs, level of difficulty…
And they are numbers for all members gathered. So, if it’s 6 segs, it’s 30 minutes each one. If all goes well, without any bug. If something, even little, happens, that 30 minutes can become an hour, an hour and a half… Each person.
So, if you want to get a larger picture, this number is for a really quick one.
@miliefleurie and @ james94131
Personally, it takes me about 2 hours per episode for translation editing as I go through every single line to check and correct.
For subbing, it takes anywhere between 3-6 hours to sub an entire episode if I had to do it all by myself.
Typically, I spend about 2 hours of subbing/editing time per episode since there are other subbers around to help out with an episode.
There are a few who can sub a lot faster but that’s rare. I know a lot of subbers who spend a lot more time per part (there are 5-6 parts in each episode). I’ve once heard from another subber that she spent 3 hours on a particularly difficult medical procedure part (about 10 minutes of viewing time) to bring it to completion! The fastest subber that I know (who no longer subs) takes about 20-30 minutes per part (2-3 hours per episode) consistently. I am only talking about subbers who can fully translate the part/episode, not those who can only sub simple lines and leave the harder part for others to fill in. Obviously, it takes less time to sub simple lines.
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I also think above all else the communication between Viki and QC’s/volunteers should improve.
Let’s take last monday as an example. I had 2 projects to seg on that day (Good Doctor, Who Are You). There was trouble with the cutting tool but before Viki cared to let us know it was hours later and in the mean time also tweets of QC’s where ignored when we asked Viki for help/info. Which made me really angry, that Viki didn’t even seem to care to give us a proper update on the situation. We waited hours for nothing, because you should know seggers wait till the parts are cut before we start segging.
Why couldn’t Viki tell us right away like “sorry team we have problems with this and that, it can take a few hours but we keep you updated.” then I would be understanding and not be so angry because I know sometimes technology doesn’t do what it should do.
Wednesday a mod posted a comment right away when Viki had problems and I advice Viki to keep doing so and not let us wait with no info at all.
It must be a coincidence that the problems started on the day it was announced that Viki was bought or whatever by Rakuten, it does make you kind of wonder if it’s related to each other.
@miliefleurie and @ajumma2,
Thanks so much for your input. I think I have enough to begin a very rough estimate.
For a typical episode of a kdrama, to sub from Korean into English:
seggers 4 man-hours
subbers 8 man-hours
editors 4 man-hours
CM 2 man-hours (can’t forget this important role and I’m totally making up the number
total: 18 man-hours at $50 per hour (this is very skilled professional work) = $900, round up to $1,000 per episode
Then, we have subbing from English into other languages. No more segging hours needed, so this would reduce the hours to 14 man-hours. At $50 per hour, this would = $700 per episode per language. Shall we say that Viki needs to provide 10 different fully subbed languages besides English to maintain world-wide interest? So, the 10 languages would cost $700 x 10 = $7,000 per episode.
Now, the total per episode would be $1,000 + $7,000 = $8,000, and for a 16 episode kdrama show, the subbing value of free labor to Viki would be 16 x $8,000 = $128,000.
This doesn’t even factor in the value of the moderators who monitor the unique advantage of Viki in the fan comments on the screen during the playback. Their hours are open ended, as well as the channel manager’s time devoted to this end of the operation. I would be curious as to any guesstimates on this.
So, if Viki is getting $128,000 of free labor per kdrama show and Viki works on 20 kdramas per year, now we have 20 x $128,000 = $2,560,000 of free labor per year just for kdramas.
Add in content from other countries around the world that volunteers provide free subbing services, and you begin to understand the financial model behind this sale.
The majority of Viki users seem to be in North America, but even worldwide I am not sure how far Rakuten can go pushing only it’s own products. I looked up what they are involved in, and a lot of it is only available in a few countries - mainly Japan. Possible that they are looking at Viki as a way to move more into the North and South America markets.
But if you look at their shopping site, most of the prices are ridiculously high for most markets outside of Japan. I looked up a few random items on their site compared to places like Amazon and Asia Imports, and with shipping the prices were around 200% to 500% higher. There is a local large Asian grocer near me, and Rakuten prices with shipping were in one case 900% higher. Not to mention that most of the translations on their shopping site totally suck. Also some items that they sell in Japan are already licensed in other countries (like Hello Kitty), so could not be sold.
So at this point I am not really sure what their plans are, and am not too sure that their purchase was a good idea.
I understand what you said, but we are not professionnal translaters.
To translate one episode in french, if it were from a pro, it would take 2-3 hours, and probably would not need editor, or just a quick review.
In english, you can double the time, since there’s subbing.
Pay amount are high in your example. We will barely or never get to be payed that much as an experimented subber, at least where I live, so for beginners like us… we can cut in and half, and half…
I think it’s not that unfair, since viki is paying a big amount for licencing the dramas, and since we are seeing it free on the website. Here, if we want to see something on the tv, we have to pay a monthly fee. Also, they have employees to pay, and probably lot of things like insurances, offices, things like that. And of course, since all companys are like that, they need to make some extra money that they can put to upgrade the company and pay themself too The only thing is, the balance is fair? We can’t tell What is fairness?
I don’t say our work are meaningless, I just say that we must stay rationnal in our way of seeing things. I don’t know about the other countries, but I know that everything we want, we must pay for. And that’s why I’m so happy to hear that QCs will have a VIP pass to be able to see the videos ads free and HD without paying a fee. I would have been upset if it was not the case but I think it’s a very good thing to have it.
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