@miliefleurie: As usual, I agree with you. LOL
Besides, we also learn a lot from translating at Viki. I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve learned a lot here. Viki is a huge school for me and I’m thankful for that.
Thanks to viki I can improve my english/spanish and keep exercising them.
For me it’s a kind of symbiosis.
Yes, and as long this symbiosis will be balanced, it will be ok.
Because even if I think the numbers james wrote was incorrect, the fact that our work are worth something, I really think it’s true.
The biggest amount of happiness I received here was the moments I received congrats, or thanks, or when I took care of my first french team, or when I received my QC, or when I was named june’s featured QC… It’s not money, but these nights I sleeped as if I received a big reward!!
The actual numbers are clearly debatable, but what isn’t is that the volunteers add truly valuable service to Viki. I think your idea of balance is absolutely proper. In all of the press releases about the sale, I didn’t see any recognition of the valuable contribution made by the volunteers that built ViiKii from the ground up in the past 7 years. Since the volunteers couldn’t participate in stock options like most start-up employees, how cool would it have been if the Viki CEO had specifically recognized all of the past volunteer labor that was donated out of love by setting aside, say, 5% of the sale price into a trust fund that would pay for rewards for volunteers., What if you were a top segger or subber on Master’s Sun in Korea, and Viki arranged for you to have lunch with SJS and GHJ as a reward? Or if you worked on a movie and got a DVD box set of the movie as a reward? Or a tour of a novella studio production? It’s fine if you are just satisfied with free access or a chance to work on your bilingual skills. But, I think that those who reap the rewards of your labor should at a minimum recognize your contribution and at least offer to share in a balanced way.
Don’t worry - QCs will (always) receive the ads-free premium feature for free!
It’s sad. But it’s like that almost everywhere. Even in my everyday job, it’s like that. The president of my company, even if he sees me for 5 years every day and talks to me often, never remember my name. And we meet and talk for real.
But viki’s staff are there, they try their best with what they have, and even when the tornado of the switch between the old and the current viki was at is higher, I never had a mean reply (even if I am really grumpy when I’m mad… lolllll)
But we think the same way, anyway. I also need recognition, a lot!
Yup, I totally understand your point of view @james94131. We really need recognition somehow and I even remember when the community wall stopped being the main entry of a channel page. The whole community was mobilized to get back the community wall there, because that’s the place where we cherish our most beloved contributors.
You forgot about the page designers. They spend time creating beautiful channel pages.
But I agree with Milie that if Viki were to hire professional translators, they probably could translate each episode in about 3 hours or so…maybe a little longer for medical and/or legal dramas.
Also, they wouldn’t really need editors and moderators. Channel manager’s responsibility will be reduced as well since they won’t have to recruit and manage subbers.
Also, I have no idea how much drama translators make but $50/hour seems very high. When I did translation as a part time gig long long time ago, I think I made $10 to $20 per page. $10 one was a simpler text and $20 was for a legal paperwork. I was doing it as a favor for friends at that time so I really don’t know how much professional translators make.
If drama translators make $50/hr, maybe I need to quit my daytime job and be a professional drama translator! I’d much rather translate dramas than what I do in my real job! 
Hey, Viki, are you hiring?! 
That’s good to know. Thanks! 
Hahahaha hey, you stole my line lollllll
You’re right ajumma, there is more than the subbers and the seggers. Moderators, Editors, Managers, Page Designers, Game Moderators… We really have a wonderfull community here!!!
I agree with everything that was said here.
The whole process of translating a video on viki, whether it’s a drama or a movie, is made possible thanks to us, the viewers who put hours of writing and hours of enthusiasm in each and every video.
Yes, some would say that Viki would do just fine without volunteers, but we know that’s not true ^^
It’s a community, we love to bring these wonderful stories to other people, in our own languages.
What I don’t like isn’t the amount of money (or Rakuten or other administrative issues viki might or might not have), but the lack of communication in a public way, not by private messages. Viki should announce these problems or changes in a public manner in time, not after. I don’t know if any of you knew before about the sale, but I found out on the VIKIblog.
And one last question, if VIKI was sold for a small amount, would we still have had this discussion about money or just about the communication between VIKI and the Vikians?
Milie the segmenters takes 2hr. But the seggers on my team are all Seg101 instructors. Or grads there.
Subbers- remember the medical words. Each subber is taking about 1-2 hrs per part. 6 parts. I need about 12 to 15 subbers per week. Milie you cannot take the Kor Eng subbers for Good doctor as an example. They are some of the fastest and most accurate subbers currently on the Net. Not even on viki. Normal everyday non Korean subbers take 2hrs or more per part.
Also this team is different- they all have to read/write Hangul not all teams are like that. We have 3 translations checkers/editors per episode. They all take about 3 to 4 hrs per episode. Excluding me. I take about 3-5 hrs because I have to check back with the chief editor and the doctor helping me.
The manager who has to deal with all the pms? I estimate about 20hrs per week pm time on viki.
James you can’t calculate like me. For managers who just have subbers come and go- they sometimes aren’t able to control the quality of the subbing. I interview subbers before they are accepted into the team.
You need to ask people like cgwm808, Beccah, Bkiss and lazarini. Or AmyPun to ask how their teams work.cgwm if the subbers are bad on her team spends like 6hrs per episode trying to sort out the subs.
I also have to check the timed comments. That’s 3 English moderators checking about 3 times each per week for profanities in the Timed comments and answering viewers. Plus Mimmylin who spends hours on the design.
Add on I help out the Japanese, Vietnamese, Mandarin for Good doctor. Then still have to take care of completed dramas who have late comers subbing in their language.
A lot of time is also spent orientating subbers to the team or on viki- how to deal with problems. Their community wall instructions are insufficient.
Milie only the most experienced seggers take 30min per part. If you’re not you take longer. 30 min is not the average. For the power segmenters maybe. And if they don’t hit red segments or have to go back to check. They hit segmenting problems regularly like every couple of weeks. Plus they sometimes can’t hear the voice.
No ajumma they translators are paid more double of what you used to be paid. I know because some of them sub variety shows and are on Dramafever. DF says they have editors but have you seen the subs quality? They sub the gist not the complete translations.
Miliefleurie for your info I’ve worked with in the past and up to the current subbers- Korean translators who are professional translators. Korean to English. So they do come onto viki for various reasons.
James there are too many comments to reply. I may not continue. Because the main thing I wrote here was that viki maintains better lines of communication between the teams and the viki paid staff.
In my hours and years here- I’ve received 1 t-shirt, one set of headphones. One CD. That’s it. And you all know how many hours I spent on viki.
Also do not use me as an example ask the other channel managers, in my real job, I have about 50 staff in my dept and I usually liase with several other departments… so I am sort of used to working and directing a team. But when viki has software glitches, or things don’t work- if you get an inexperienced channel manager- that’s when things go pear shaped. So I might not be the best person to ask as generally I am used to managing crisis at work and delegating and interviewing people to see if they fit the team. Not only at work but on viki teams.
I’m a relatively new contributor to Viki although I registered as a user way back when Viki was ViiKii (I thought my memory was playing tricks on me when I didn’t see the double "i"s.)
Anyhow, since these estimates are based on ck1Oz’s most efficient and experienced teams, I thought I’d share what it looks like for someone less experienced. Although I’m a native Korean speaker, I’m not completely fluent since I didn’t use Korean extensively for at least a decade.
I sub anywhere between 80% - low 90% of any given 10 minute part. That can take anywhere between 30 min - 2 hrs for me. The most time-consuming are parts filled with professional jargon, regional dialects, too quick or poor enunciation. Then, I have to listen, re-listen, double check/confirm many dictionary entries (I always have two dictionaries at hand + google), and sometimes check against prior episodes’ subs for consistency’s sake.
I’ve also begun to edit. The drama I’m editing doesn’t contain much professional jargon (unlike Good Doctor or I Hear Your Voice), but it’s peppered liberally with regional dialect and too quick/poor enunciation (I’d like to send some actors to speech coaches). One episode takes me 4 - 8 hrs to edit, depending on the accuracy and completeness of the subs. There are times when I find I need to transcribe the dialogue into Korean before I edit the English. In each episode, there are a few lines for which I need the help of a subber with an ear for Korean that’s better than mine.
As for the Rakuten acquisition, it’s premature for me to form any solid opinions. I used to do M&A consulting, so I anticipate that there will be some bumps along the road. However, Rakuten would be doing itself disservice to cannibalize Viki, since Viki’s vitality depends on volunteer contribution. I’ve abandoned DramaFever completely in coming over to Viki. There is one other legal, free streaming site I use for any content Viki doesn’t have. If Rakuten’s Viki becomes incompatible with my needs/preferences, I won’t hesitate to leave and I suspect others won’t either. I’d presume Rakuten is aware of that possibility. Whether they care or have contingency plans lined up, that’s a different matter.
It’s my hope that Rakuten-Viki will mean mostly positive things for the Viki user community.
For me, the issue is about true respect and appreciation for the services donated by the Viki volunteers. In the recent past, especially after the Viki founders went after joint venture funding, the sense I got was that the volunteers were being cheered on by Viki insiders not out of appreciation, but rather to do more and better in order to increase business. When Viki’s business model depends 100% on volunteer services, one would think keeping volunteers happy is job 1. But look at the continuing complaints of lack of timely communication with volunteers and effective responses to volunteer suggestions and complaints that you and the other volunteers have written about here. This is daily evidence of the lack of true respect and appreciation of the volunteers services.
The actual sale just magnifies the lack of respect and appreciation for the volunteers and their exploitation by the VC vultures and Viki founders/insiders. If you read the Viki CEO’s blog letter of 9/1 about the sale, note that there’s nothing in there acknowledging the contribution of the volunteers for the past 7 years in building the value of the business that was just sold. And this attitude is inexcusable regardless of the sale amount.
This is sad, of course. I never really thought about the CEO’s opinion. My mind only stopped at the level of the staff, since they are the fellow we’re working with.
It’s true that if a website is based on the volunteer’s work, they should at least put one line for them. It’s kinda sad (•.•)
@ck1Oz, @miliefleurie, @ajumma2, @anaisanais, and everyone else who commented,
Thanks so much for your detailed comments on the time and work that goes into creating the subbed videos. We can all do our own math and estimated hours and rates, and I think I can safely assume that all of us will come up with volunteer contributed services to Viki in the millions of dollars annually now. Which, of course, directly translates into the business value of Viki that got sold to Rakuten for the benefit of just a few people.
If I ran Viki, I would have done my utmost to give appreciation to the volunteers. Like having a staff position to find little inexpensive but unique rewards for the volunteers. Like if a drama was shooting in Sydney or LA, maybe Viki could arrange with the production company to have volunteers in those areas appear as extras in crowd scenes or watch behind the scenes as rewards. Or having this staffer act as an ombudsman representing the interests of the volunteers inside Viki. Who knows? Maybe Rakuten will be a better HR manager.
I think I’ve probably beaten this subject into the ground by now, so I’ll take a break before I’m booted off.
Hi, everyone. I’d like to thank you all for your comments. In order to prevent further misinformation (@james94131 - please reply to my email from last week if you’d like to discuss in more detail) and to help address your concerns, please see my comments here and here. Please also feel free to write into the Help Center or PM me directly, too.