"Segment Editor" role for A&C, perhaps?

Contributing Segmenting
1

Hi everyone and @vikicommunity :blush:

So… there’s something I have been thinking about for quite some time now, ever since I joined NSSA to somehow grasp how segmenting works. To be honest, never before did I think about how much time and precision is needed to create beautiful segments. Perhaps because when they are well-done, we as viewers/subbers/editors don’t even “see” them, so to speak, as they fit nicely with the dialogs. What we usually focus on is translation, I think, unless segments are off :sweat_smile:

During NSSA, I have come to realize that segmenting is such a time-consuming task! :flushed: To me, segmenters are now heros behind the scenes, honestly. And then, I learned that when they do A&C on presubbed shows, they do not receive any contribution count for it :flushed::flushed::flushed: which I never knew before. This is why I have been thinking… Would it be possible for these hard-working people, who are always super fast (I still don’t know how they do it - it takes me ages to do a 10-minute part, and it’s far from perfect :joy:) and who show such excellent teamwork, to be rewarded for their work, @vikicommunity? I have no clue what limitations the system has, of course, or perhaps I am missing something, but it might be something to consider. I’m sure a lot of contributors would be happy to see such a change :blush:

I have been thinking about it and even when a drama comes presubbed, our contributions as editors do count whenever subtitles are edited, and when segmenters perform A&C, I think we could say that they become “segment editors,” so to speak. Perhaps it would be possible to create this type of a role for them (“segment editor” or something like that), so that they can also be rewarded for their work, and feel appreciated. It does not really apply to me, because I contribute as a subber/editor, and this will probably always be my main focus, but now that most/a lot of dramas and movies come presubbed, I can imagine it may be difficult for some segmenters to keep their VikiPass, even though they do spend a considerable amount of time contributing here, but the system just does not recognize it at the moment. Would it be possible to show a bit more appreciation to them, perhaps?

Perhaps this could be something to consider.
Before I wrote it, I did a quick search here on Discussions, and I haven’t seen a similar topic on A&C, so if someone already suggested/mentioned this before, and I just haven’t found it, forgive me :sunflower:

17 Likes
2

Thank you for this topic.
Being myself a segmenter, working on many A&C dramas, I think it would be complicated to have a role just for A&C but I agree segmenters should be more rewarded for their work.
People always think “Subs… subs…” but most of them don’t even know, without segments there’s no sub.
Maybe, something like combining segments would be like creating one segment on presubbed dramas?
I don’t think just adjusting a timing could count, it would be complicated. But combining segments, maybe could.
I don’t know, it’s an idea.

But more than creating a role for A&C, what I think should be considered is creating the chief segmenter role.
Why would English editors have chief editor role created and not chief segmenter for segmenters, when chief segmenter is one of the most important roles?
They are recruiting the segmenters, helping in the channel to adjust segments (or segment when it’s not A&C) too, then Quality Checking the segments once the segmenters are done with all parts and coming back on the channel to adjust things when English editors ask them.
Doing so much, but they don’t have a role and have to be added as all languages moderator when they could have their own role?
Sure, we’ve been doing like that for years, but why would chief editor have their role and not chief segmenter?

12 Likes
3

This I’m not so certain is impossible. Why would editing a text be possible to track, but editing a length of a segment impossible? Of course it is possible, given that Viki has good programers.

3 Likes
4

The problem wouldn’t be if it’s possible or not to count when we just adjust the timing, but if it would count a segment every time we’re doing it on the same segment. That’s why for me counting it when it’s combining would be easier. But I’m not a programmer, so I can’t say for sure.

1 Like
5

Chief editors don’t have their own role, either.

1 Like
6

Editors yes, though. Maybe chief segmenter could be added as editor as well?

1 Like
7

Then they would’t have access to the segment timer, unless a completely new role would be created for them. As it is now, the “editor” role is too limited for the CE and useless for segmenters.

2 Likes
8

It is said in a help center article chief editor role will be created.

IMG_20230218_075823
IMG_20230218_0758231080×1681 147 KB

2 Likes
9

It would be useless, because the reason why chief segmenter needs to be added as all languages moderator is when other languages lock their languages, segmenters can’t delete segments in which there are subs, so can’t combine segments properly.
Plus, chief segmenter needs to be able to add segmenters in the team.
So being added as editor wouldn’t help. That’s why a chief segmenter role would help more. Plus, it would be great if the chief segmenter could modify the timing of parts, to be sure they can adjust all segments properly, instead of asking CM who sometimes aren’t even actives or just don’t know how to do it.
Also, even if there’s not a lot of segmenters doing that, since there’s no chief segmenter role, segmenters sending messages through project finder send them to the CM, when it should be sent to chief segmenter.

8 Likes
10

Now I suspect them to want to get rid of the all language moderator role altogether so that no one can abuse that position anymore and in that case, the CS role will probably come too sooner or later.

Editors can lock and unlock, too. The problem is that they don’t have access to the segment timer.

I suggest an option for the CM to give someone else the ability to cut the parts, a role as “part cutter” or something. That way, they don’t lose total control, but they still can get someone else to do it if they themselves aren’t willing or able.

2 Likes
11

Then this person should be added as CM since there’s no other role being able to cut parts…
And for me, it’s not a good idea. Would be better just to let the CS do it.

3 Likes
12

I think you are on the right track here! You all should systematically try to list permissions necessary for the role of chief segmenter and chief English editor. And by permissions, I mean functional needs of each of the positions. Also, it might be good to think how to efficiently counteract abusing in segmenting (ie. what if someone creates thousands of half-second segments). It’s better that you do it now, than that Viki does it later and messes things up.

For example, what does CS need?

  • access to the Segment Timer
  • adding segmenters in a team
  • (un)locking segments for the episode
  • (un)locking all languages for the episode
  • deleting/modifying other’s subtitles
  • modify splitting of episode into parts (?)
  • global segment delete for the episode (?)
  • anything more?

What does CE need?

  • access to the Subtitle Editor and Bulk
  • adding English editors to the team
  • (un)locking English language for the episode
  • deleting/modifying other’s subtitles
  • anything more?

I understand you. I’m saying that it is possible that modifying the position or length of an existing segment counts as one contribution. Merging, however, would probably result in one count, instead of two.

1 Like
13

They can unlock only their languages. When you’re working on an old drama with 20+ languages to fix segments, would you add the CS as editor in all languages? Would be too much and useless.

1 Like
14

Most of the segmenters nowadays are graduated from NSSA or Seg101, I didn’t see any abuse in segmenting since years now since most channels don’t accept segmenters who aren’t graduated from these academies.
Plus, a student who spent months in NSSA would have no reason to mess with segments. I guess there can be some exceptions, but saw none until now.
It’s only on old dramas segmenters who weren’t graduated from NSSA nor Seg101 messing with segments.

2 Likes
15

Because they are added for a certain language. If there actually would be an “editor” role for segmenters, it would automatically include all languages.

16

If it counts as one, it’s already better than nothing.

2 Likes
17

I’m not talking about another CM, but about a new role as “part cutter,” to be given to someone else in the team. This might be the CS or anyone else who is capable of the job. My point is not to take the option away from the CM if they actually are willing and able to do it themselves, yet give them a way out if they aren’t.

2 Likes
18

That’s why I’m saying we need a chief segmenter role, not an editor role for chief segmenters. Why bother with an editor role for chief segmenters if we can have a chief segmenter role?

1 Like
19

CM and CS can both have the same permission: cutting the episode in parts. A separate role of a “cutter”, as you say, for that permission alone might not be necessary.

3 Likes
20

The thing is lots of people don’t know how to cut parts, so why create a new role just for it and not just include it in chief segmenter role?
Especially since segmenters know well timings.
Once I even had to create a video so a CM could understand how to create parts, and since I created that video, I sent it so several CM who struggled doing it. So I know well lots CM don’t know how to create parts properly.

1 Like