Yes, I do that, I like to edit my own projects. But I know many people who assign others as editors. If there are enough subbers to cover all the needs for translation and there’s also a designated editor, then the moderator doesn’t need to put her hands in the dough, so to speak. In Italian dramas, sometimes there are two editors, 1st editor and 2nd editor. Who may be different than the moderator.
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In such teams the Moderator is then superfluous. One of the “editors” might as well take the rest of the tasks the Moderator needs to do then. Which is initial gathering and organizing the team. Compared to translating and editing, that part is usually very small. Not worthy of getting it’s own role.
Unlike the channel manager, who is a designated person for everything that happens on that channel for an eternity, so to speak, a Moderator usually finishes their duties when the translation of that language ends. Which is another reason why a Moderator should never be considered as only the manager of a team.
Teams where there are enough people in the team that the Moderator can afford not to do anything asides from gathering the team, only happen in a handful of really big languages.
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This is news to me, and I wonder if different language teams are creating now different rules? I think some rules created here at RViki are a laugh since they often contradict themselves.
Like I said to @thaly1209 I wasn’t talking about any OL since I was just mentioning some moderators in the Spanish teams that ‘‘hog’’ the subtitles; when they have plenty of subbers to do them, and oftentimes subbers are denied of getting a part in a drama/movie/shows etc. because of some of these moderator’s ‘‘greediness.’’
In the Spanish teams (and from what I read also in the Portuguese team), there are no conflict regarding short amount of subbers, (if they become sick or absent for whatever reason) since there are plenty of them to cover the absentee or sick subber’s ‘‘spot.’’
I don’t know if in your group/team of German subbers, you reach the 100 subbers mark, but I’m guessing you don’t because if the contribution of the moderator in the German team is a must it has to be because there are not enough subbers in the team to cover up the empty spot. In that case, it must be so stressful since the role of Moderators carry a lot of weight, especially if they are working on 5 projects (limit now) at the same time. In my personal opinion, they are not lazy at all, but that they just have too much on their plate.‘’
Not in every case this may apply to. The moderators I feel have no need to be writing subtitles are those that are not proficient enough in the English language, and their subtitles are done with 100% use of a translation tool, so that means quality from those moderators will go down the drain (I do my research before I accuse anyone and also save the evidence). When it comes to the Spanish language any translation tool is not our best allies, if anything, our worst enemy…
Now, your statement regarding that the moderators doing editing work is to ensure there is quality in the subtitles, makes absolutely no sense to me. Plenty of Editors are there in the team for that specific task; ‘‘to make sure there is QUALITY’’ in the subtitles that are written by the subbers in the team. If a moderator in a team has to step in for an Editor, then that Editor does not deserve to be editing that drama/movie/show etc. Also, what is the CE doing all this time that the moderator has to do her/his task?
Exactly my point, too. I was writing about the Spanish team that we all know like a broken record by now that they have 100’s of subbers in their team. I think I was clearly enough in my writing that I wasn’t including OL since I can’t say anything about a language I know nothing about. I believe your native language is Croatian, so I know as a moderator you will have plenty on your plate to be dealing with, especially in the case where GT does a better job than those subbers in your team who claim to know the Croatian language.
No matter what I/we/all write, think or say, when it comes to business making money, is what motivates the investors to spend and risk their money, and in all honesty rare language brings no profit here at RViki because paying subscribers are so few (if there’s any). I have never seen in the years I’ve been here; anyone in the comments requesting Croatian subtitles. Now, when it comes to those big giant companies with billions of paying subscribers all over the world, we know these rare language can really bring big profits, and there is no risk in investing their money.
I’m an active German Moderator since 2015 and this rule with 500 subs/segments was already valid when I started here.
German teams are not that big, in average between 8-16 subbers, depending on the weekly release and the number of episodes. And we are working different than Spanish teams. Each subber gets a designated part per week and for every week we got a deadline. This is not a must, but most teams are working with that condition. A few teams are working without a deadline and some teams don’t work with designated parts, mostly for older dramas with lots of episodes.
When you’re used to moderate this way, it’s not that stressful. Before the 5 projects limit quite a number of moderators had between 5 and 10 projects with good quality subtitles. We have a huge lack of good editors and such, who complete a drama. Many underestimate the workload, when you’re editing thoroughly. So it’s not the question, if an editor deserves its position, but to find just one editor altogether.
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It might be the case since I never heard about this rule in the Spanish community. If I think about it, every moderator within the Spanish community works differently and has their own set of rules. For example, I know a moderator who doesn’t add their editors as “editors” but rather as “subbers,” and they lock and unlock the episodes for their editors to work. Others don’t edit in their projects but you might find them as editors in other projects. In my case, I sometimes don’t sub in my own projects because I’d rather give those segments to my subbers. The Spanish community is large, so finding a project can be hard. I, however, sometimes do take parts here and there and step up when parts are not completed. The fact that I don’t regularly sub in my own projects does not mean I don’t take the time to read the subs and do quality checks before and after the editors work on said parts. Even if I don’t take part as an editor, most of the time I am the first person who goes through the episode to set up the new characters and their treatments (formal & informal) and add anything missing to the vocabulary. When I work with my co-mod, she takes charge of the editing, and I focus on having the document ready for each episode. But then again, I am speaking for myself and the rules within my teams. As I said, every Spanish team has its own dynamics, so labeling moderators who don’t edit as “lazy” is unfair in my opinion since you don’t know how their teams work.
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thaly1209
so labeling moderators who don’t edit as “lazy” is unfair in my opinion since you don’t know how their teams work.
You DO KNOW that didn’t come from me, but from @somejuwels; so in my opinion when you added this last sentence here you should have mentioned it in the proper way by addressing it to @somejuwels, and not like it was pointed as me saying that statement bc I didn’t do so. In case you missed that I will added in here.
somejuwels
Is this a rule for the Spanish teams? In the German community moderators usually are part of the subtitler team, at least as a substitute subtitler or are editors. Often our moderators have to jump in, when a subtitler is absent or sick. A German moderator, who doesn’t help with the subtitles or the edits, is called lazy.
I was going to give you a like just like @mirjam_465 did to your comment, but that would be like I was admitting that the last sentence was my opinion, and not someone else. So I wanted to make things very clear to you and @mirjam_465; you know… in case she missed that, too. Here it goes…
angelight313_941
Moderators carry a lot of weight, especially if they are working on 5 projects (limit now) at the same time. In my personal opinion, they are not lazy at all, but that they just have too much on their plate.‘’
,
Since the way you work in your Spanish team is how I feel moderators should do, I encourage you continue doing that, and I hope you don’t change like so many end up doing in here. I know you have gone through some not so pleasant experiences here with other moderators (team members), but I understand you stay quiet so it doesn’t affect you working here as a volunteer bc they someway/somehow will block you, just like several other volunteers told me the other day that they can’t speak out bc that would affect finding projects here to do. I experienced that myself here, but it won’t stop me from speaking out through my writings in the hopes the CEO/Owners/ Investors takes notice, investigate, and stop what I consider is a form of bullying behavior that has existed here for so many, many years, and it needs to stop so that this site can see the progress in big steps. All that negative behavior bring bad vibes that hinder the progress of any Business ,and this actions need to be eradicated from here. I also know they have plenty of tools and means to make sure that every 100% of volunteers in here, in the right way, do the right thing, in a very fair and positive manner for the benefit of this site that brings joy to so many viewers paying or not paying. Money is not the only source of motivation for any business to create this sites bc if all they wanted was money they would have already done this site all the dramas/movies etc. with pre sub, pre- segged, and at this point, I hope very much they do so.
I agree with you that translation tools used for writing subtitles in any language can be the cause of very bad translations, and in the process, they lose so much QUALITY work in them. Thank you so much for this information coming from someone with so much experience in the subject. I respect all OL, and refrain myself from giving opinion whether if they are doing things right or wrong bc it’s not my place. Since my native language is Spanish I talk freely about certain subjects that I feel needs attention in the Spanish teams only. Funny thing that you mentioned Brazilian Portuguese bc a long, long time ago, I was a moderator in a drama and worked with a Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese subber and it was a pleasure to work with both because when I translated their subtitles with google translate their subtitles were very clear to understand, although I used a translation tool to make sure they were legits when writing subs in that language.
cerejacult
In the end of the day, Viki needs to chose the best way for them and to keep earning money to keep this platform and don’t become the next one to go down.
I share the same sentiment with you, and in my opinion the main culprits if this site goes down comes from the few STRONG controlling groups we have here for years and years, that were allowed to do so damage from all their wrongdoings by them at this site. I have seen here many jewels of volunteers; that their work were/was excellent in Quality and Quantity, but they were driven out by these controlling hogging groups. It’s simply ridiculous to see the owners of this site allowing these behavior to continue here year after year when they saw the declining effect in the subtitles when it came to Quality. These controlling groups want to blame the owners of this site wanting QUANTITY over Quality, but even if that was the case, that never gave them the right to want to hog everything for themselves, and get rid of the volunteers that could provide the quality they couldn’t offer because they didn’t know the language. For example, I once had a FRENCH moderator correcting my Spanish subtitles/Grammar and complaining about my work! That was the most ridiculous situation I went through here, but it wasn’t the only time since I had similar experience with someone who was Italian and claimed my subs were wrong but you saw her stealing my Spanish subs and getting them on her name like she had done them when all she did was add a period and make the sub her contribution count (I read that has changed now and no longer happens here). Justice finally done? not too sure since more things need to change here in order to eliminate the control groups/hoggers, from stealing other volunteer’s hard work. So far RViki site is doing the right things bc eliminating the VPN was the best thing they have done so far, but I know that by now they must know how to completely eliminate them from these ever forming/existing controlling groups to exist/work in here. I hope I get to see more positive changes in the near future bc that would make me so happy that the bullies here finally got their very well deserved punishment, and this site didn’t go down like so many other site have.
somejuwels
I’m an active German Moderator since 2015 and this rule with 500 subs/segments was already valid when I started here.
I never forget you bc you did German subtitles in several projects I had back then. I loved the quality work you gave in them, and I appreciate your honesty since you followed my instructions without complaining or hesitation. I always remember you gave me a timeline when you would finish your work (that was a lot for one person alone), and true to your word, you kept the date and fully finished everything as promised. That’s what makes a great volunteer here at this site, worthy of holding on to, and making sure they are appreciated and rewarded bc it’s all very well deserved. Too bad all those projects were completely removed from here… 
@somejuwels
I loved those Japanese documentations and still remember the lovely landscapes and the wonderful Onsen and fruit farms!
I was the Spanish moderator and you started first working on the Chinese movie based on a real life story Chinese/kung Fu fighting method; it was hilariously funny and I loved the ending too! Then, later on I asked you if you can do the German subs for all the 4 Japanese Documentaries I was assigned as a Spanish Moderator.
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The three basic roles of a Moderator are to:
- Complete a project
- Ensure subs of good quality
- Find a team (if any)
Other roles of a Moderator are to:
- Moderate comments and timed comments in their language
- Ask and/or give feedback to the CE if something in the English language is unclear.
I don’t want to go into the details of how any individual language functions. Or the fact that an OL Editor was an invention of Viki staff when most of the volunteers were asking themselves what the heck is that. And I certainly don’t want to talk about abusers or people who take upon themselves a role of a Moderator when in fact they are incapable of quality editing of their own language.
But Moderators have to contribute to their project by subs or editing.
Otherwise the workload of their job is more-less insignificant and has in the past lead to hoarding, ego-tripping and exclusion, especially in the (very few) big-language communities.
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Basically, the moderator is responsible for the project and has to make sure it gets completed with good-quality subtitles. Of course, in our languages that automatically means we take on a big part or even all of the job ourselves. But ever since the invention of the editor role, moderators with big enough teams can delegate everything. To Viki, that doesn’t matter. All they want is that the job gets done.
You might be underestimating the workload of a big-language moderator here… 
They may not have to sub or even edit, but they have a huge team to take care of.
I hadn’t heard of that 500-sub rule, either, until recently. All languages indeed have their own (lack of) rules. For Dutch, we don’t assign parts. We don’t have strict rules about who does what, except that the subbers are not allowed to edit. Editing is done by either the moderator or an editor (or both). Moderators do sub, not because of some rule, but because there usually aren’t enough people in the team or we are on our own. Also, many Dutch subbers tend to run off after a few episodes and then the moderator still has to do all the rest alone.
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I also follow a system that most Italian moderators don’t. It’s something inspired by the English and the Spanish teams. Parts are not assigned, the subbers choose them, and in order. This means that you won’t find, for example, part 1 done, part 2 undone (because that subber has woken up late or is at work right now), part 3 and 4 done, part 5 undone, part 6 done.
Each subber comes whenever she’s available to translate right away, writes her name on the next empty part to claim it and starts. If she only has little time, she stops before finishing the part, and writes the exit percentage on the Status table. If she has more time that day, she may continue doing a second part, or even a third.
And I do have more subbers than parts, if possible: at least 15 for 2 six-part episodes weekly (in Italian teams 12 + 1-2 spares is the norm). Because if someone cannot come for this week, it’s okay, provided they do a significant amount of parts totally (maybe next week they may do 2 parts). If they cannot come for more than 1 week, they have to say so in advance. And it is the responsibility of all subbers to keep an eye on the status page of the Google sheet, so if too many hours pass, the end of the day is near and an episode is not ready, they may jump in again briefly and do some more work. Otherwise, of course, the moderator jumps in. This happens routinely during the holidays, for example!
It’s good that there’s flexibility in the workflow of different moderators - it would be stifling having to follow one set of rules devised by someone else. Provided that the work gets done in a timely manner, and it is quality work, who cares what the method is?
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I know it didn’t come from you. Hence, why I agree with your reply and your opinion about moderators.
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What I said about lazy moderators was only for the German community. And of course moderators are preparing a spreadsheed with all the characters, terms and names, formal and informal speech as well. We usually work with google docs and the moderators watch the episodes and update the doc before releasing it to their teams 
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I loved those Japanese documentations and still remember the lovely landscapes and the wonderful Onsen and fruit farms!
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Well, if the mod is not editing, then they are not (or at least shouldn’t be) making that document either.
Indeed, I might be. But it is precisely the Moderator who decides on the size of their team. And if because of that they neglect their other duty, mainly editing, which we are discussing here, then it’s not the editing they should drop from their workload.
If they watch the drama and understand all the nuances, I don’t see a reason why not?
I don’t think the fact that a moderator leaves the editing to someone else or shares it is necessary a bad thing? Or that it’s neglecting the duty.
If the subtitles turn out great, there are no mistakes in the translation, what is the problem? I think the main goal is to give people good subs in a timely manner, the way it’s done is less important imo.
But I’d like to note, that it’s more difficult to find a good editor in a smaller/medium languages (which I think we both are a part of) and the in reality almost all moderators there should edit, because noone else will do it.
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You and I are in teams where we don’t have the choice to delegate that much. Big languages don’t have a realistic choice to work on their own or with very few people. They have lots of people begging them to be in their teams. Should they disappoint the fast majority just to do more themselves?
Exactly. Moderators have to make things happen, either by doing them themselves or making sure others do them. The end result is the responibilty of the moderators, how they get there is (as long as they don’t break any rules) their choice (or their faith, since the kind of community they’re in determines a lot).
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Not share. I’m talking about not editing at all.
Watching a drama and editing it is two very different things. We miss out on a lot just by watching. Especially with regards to consistency and nuance.
I think a CM must have faith in one person, the Mod, because of a very practical reason - they don’t know the language themselves. But they can’t have faith in a whole chain of people, especially if they don’t know who these people are for each language.
The Mod is the main responsible person for the quality of their language. If they don’t put their fingers in the dough, they can’t know that this is true. They can guarantee it by having full faith in their Editor, but they can’t know. And therefore that guarantee is not very meaningful.
To put it in other words, if this has become a stale practice for some languages, I think chief editors of those language should also be added as language moderators.
I’m not sure I understand this argument. Because you’re not taking anything away from a subber if you’re editing their work. Or… did I misunderstand something?