Indeed and it would be a pity unless Rakuten decides to create an improved streaming site with series from other regions too.We love Asian content but we are just a few in comparison to what people usually prefer to watch. For instance, I’m the only and exclusive one who enjoys Asian dramas amongst plenty of people I know.
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The reason they add [text] is not because they want to tell you what to add, but because for a while there was a misunderstanding between Viki and the segmenters that the segmenters should not create empty segments. As a result, the segment has been filled with what it was created for.
Some segmenters and CS have retained this. Others add other placeholders and still others leave the segment empty.
But what they all do is stick to what they have learned. Create the segment when it is needed, create the segment even if you are not sure that it is needed. This also means that they create a segment multiple times. They are only segmenters and do not decide which of the segments can be omitted from their point of view. This is done by the editors.
However, what I find very unfortunate is that recently, easily readable, directly displayed texts that are relevant to the plot have been deleted.
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Think about others, not only your own language!
Your language (English, Italian or other) may be fine within the limits, but if languages with longer words such as German and Greek are to stay within them, then the English must never surpass 88-90 characters.
Again one of the many examples from my experiments yesterday:
EN: So are they telling us to form a sisterhood with their organization? (68 characters)
GERM: Also sagen sie uns, dass wir mit ihrer Organisation gemeinsam eine Schwesternschaft gründen sollen? (99 characters)
Ignoring this reality is VERY SELFISH. Only worthyromance has taken it into account when she wrote that there should be a different limit for other languages. I don’t know how easy this is to implement, though.
However, you who like creating shorter subtitles, think of this:
If there is no limit, you (as a moderator/editor) are completely free to shorten them as much as you like. You have a choice. For instance, I know crimac has always shortened them, that is her preference, and it’s perfectly okay - her dramas, her decisions.
If things stay as they are, nothing will change for you.
However, those who want to preserve as much information as possible (while still being readable, of course), now will have no choice, this freedom is taken from them.
Ignoring other language communities is not cool.
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I agree with you. They should take into consideration other languages if they keep the 100 character limit.
For me there are two ways of seeing this.
1. Originality
Viki is known for the quality of their subtitles. I’ve been a regular user on MDL for a few years now and the topic of subtitles is something that comes up often enough. Most users there prefer Viki subtitles exactly because they are different comparing to other mainstream platforms, simply because they offer more info to the viewers -be it notes, song translations or mainly the ability to NOT omit things from the original-.
By implementing a limit -in general-, Viki will lose it’s originality and probably many subscribers, since people will simply be able to watch series from other platforms and they will have nothing to gain from Viki. And yes, there are people that subscribe to Viki because of their subs, and I’m sure they are aware of that.
For example, let’s take someone who has two subscriptions; a Viki and a W…TV subsciption to watch C-dramas (I’m not sure if we can mention other platforms, so I’ll be writing it like that).
The only pro Viki has in this case is the subtitles. So why should a person that has both subsciptions keep the Viki one when they provide nothing new? Or why should a person that has more than one subscription watch a series from Viki and not from another platform when they pay for both? Of course, there are many pros Viki has -they have dramas form different countries and platforms-, but there are people that subscribe to the platform for specific type of dramas that they can also find elsewhere.
And a personal example. When I wanted to watch Word of Honor, it was available on multiple platforms and I decided to watch on Viki simply because the subtitles were much better and I could tell how many subs they “cut” from other platforms like N…x when I tried to watch it there.
2. Correct implementation
I’ve mentioned this on discord too, but I want to write about it here as well. I personally don’t mind if they implement a character-limit and they decide to lose what makes them unique (which is their subtitles) BUT they should do it correctly.
What does that mean?
-
They should take segmenting into account.
I’m sorry to say, but it is a bit idiotic to have the same character limit when a subtitle lasts 2’’ and when it lasts 10’'.
Other big platforms take segmenting into account when it comes to the limit. It is impossible to have a 100 character limit in all cases. -
If they truly decide to implement the 100 character limit, htmls shouldn’t be calculated, simply because they are not even visible in some cases. Why should we lose 3 characters for a < br > and 6 for italics?
Same for songs! We will lose 8 characters for inputing notes. That means that many will either not add notes or simply won’t translate the songs if it is impossible to do within the limit -which again will make Viki exactly like other platforms-. -
If they keep a 100 character limit they should take into account other languages.
For some, like us in the Greek community, it is almost impossible at times to stay within the limit especially in varieties or period dramas. Why? Let’s take the word “trust” for example that gets translated as “εμπιστοσύνη” in Greek. The english word has 5 characters and the equivalent Greek word has 11 characters. And in this case we may be able to write it otherwise, but there are other scenarions where that is not possible.
In other words, I’m fine if Viki wants to lose its originality and turn into other mainstream platforms, but if they want to implement a character limit they should take segmentation into account and not just put a 100 character limit in all languages without taking into consideration that there are languages like the Greek or the German one that a 100 character limit may not even let them write the meaning of a subtitle. Like, imagine not being able to save a subtitle, because it has 101 characters instead of 100.
That aside, will it just be a soft limit like @lucie_kristina_g wrote or not? If it’s a soft limit, it will be fine. Subs will be saved and subbers will just take a second look to make sure that subtitles are readable.
But that is the optimistic point of view. It’s fine if they implement a character limit with series and movies that will soon be available in the platform, but what if they decide to implement the character limit in older series and “delete” subtitles? That will be a disaster for us and for them. Most of their series will become incomplete.
To summarize, I’m fine if Viki wants to have a character limit. But it should be done right like in all other mainstream platforms and not sloppy by just implementing a 100 character limit and not taking into consideration anything else.
9 Likes
I understand that… but these aren’t empty segments. There is an English subtitle, and then they add “text” to the subtitle. This is an entirely different situation that bothers me.
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I can explain that to you too. If the segment is cut for text and dialog and the English edit does not add what is missing, the segment can be cut incorrectly afterwards. The other way round too. If the segment is only cut for dialog and the edit adds OST or text (because it considers it important), the segment is also cut incorrectly. This is one way of communicating with the edit.
I’ll add an explanation to make it clearer.
We have two short segments with presubs. The segmenter combines them and transfers the presub to the other segment. The same thing happens here. There is a segment with presub and a newly created segment for text, dialog or OST. If these two segments are now combined, the segmenter signals this by adding what the segment was created for.
As you say yourself, you understand why this is added to an empty segment.
So the segmenter is not doing anything wrong. You just haven’t recognized why the segmenter does this.
You can therefore find the following combinations:
Presub < br> [text]
(this signals that an empty segment for text has been combined with a presub segment)
-Presub < br> -
(this indicates that an empty segment for dialog has been combined with a presub segment)
Presub < br> ♫ ♫
(this indicates that an empty segment for OST has been combined with a presub segment)
So the segmenter is just doing his/her job and, to be precise, he/she is doing a very good job when he/she does it.
3 Likes
I understand your approach and it’s true, this doesn’t sound too bad. Having 100 subs without a warning but still being able to translate more if necessary. This would “force” the subttilers/editors to think about their sentence and possibly shorten it if possible.
It just depends on the project. e.g. Variety Shows or some historical dramas will show in almost every segment the warning which makes it quite annoying to work on them. It limits the fun for such projects.
As a German moderator, I definitely prefer the 255 characters or maybe at least 150-200 segments. 100 is really a very low number. I really hope Viki will hear our comments and suggestions and considers them in their final decision.
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As additional comment:
What I’m annoyed about the most is that - again - we had to stumble accross this fact/testing without any information, instead of talking to the concerned people/contributors properly beforehand. Checking pros and cons with us (e.g. maybe with up to 20 experienced moderators/editors), before acting. I’m more than happy to hear the reasoning of Viki, they are welcome to explain themselves, but no, they waited - again - until everything has boiled over and everyone is just pissed off. They make it difficult for themselves 
11 Likes
I tried to shorten them a bit:
Anyway, it’s for certain that there are some issues in case of…
- dramas with long (complicated) sentences
- on-screen text
- explanations
For example, I found this one in School 2021:
but I’ll go to this university for this major, so I know I’ll get bonus points at the interview. (96)
aber ich gehe für das Hauptfach an die Universität und weiß, dass ich Bonuspunkte beim Interview bekomme. (105)
(originally 127 characters in German)
The only way to shorten this would be moving part of it into the segment with the first part of the sentence… Well, basically, it’s not uncommon for this to happen if the English is close to the limit. It’s quite rare that German is actually shorter than English.
At the same time, in none of my recent parts in dramas I had “normal dialogue” above a hundred characters per segment. Just on-screen text, credits and Jdrama previews.
Once I researched older dramas, I found some longer sentences, e.g., in “The Sword and the Brocade” from 2021:
I caught you two here alone with disheveled clothes. And you said I misunderstood you? (86)
Ich traf euch beide hier allein mit unordentlicher Kleidung an. Und du sagst, ich hätte euch missverstanden? (108)
Ich traf euch hier allein mit unordentlicher Kleidung an. Und du sagst, ich missverstehe euch? (94)
Messes a bit with the used tense, but the tense isn’t as important in German. 
Anyway, there are quite a few longer sentences compared to recent dramas. However, I can’t really judge usual Chinese histories as I usually work on contemporary dramas or “Republic of China” dramas if anything.
So in general, I think it’s often possible to get closer to the English amount of characters in German in many cases. But English would have to stick to a maximum of approx. 80-90 characters given the examples. 
Like I mentioned somewhere before we can use more “Präteritum” tense instead of “Perfekt”, it sounds a bit off, but it’s common on other well-known streaming services. I’d rather avoid it, but it’s a fact too, that some tend to overuse “Perfekt” in their translations right now. Having both is a better solution.
7 Likes
No, we should all have a say.
I don’t know how “off” it is in German, but in Dutch, it’s debatable in some cases and plain wrong in others. Choosing the tense should not depend on how much writing space you have. It should just be correct.
All streaming services and other areas do it wrong nowadays because of the influence of English (and maybe also partly because of limiting rules). In English, past is past so they can’t use the present perfect when they are clearly talking about the past. Dutch has different rules.
It is things like this that make our languages deteriorate. All subtitles and other text will have English grammar, people will get used to it or even grow up with it and in the end, it will be officially considered correct and all languages will be a grammar clone of English.
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Exactly!
I think that is one of the main problems all of us have. They should have warned us and personally I think they should have made a statement to the entire Viki community. Even if it’s still in the testing phase, a simple announcement about the upcoming changes would be enough and would show respect to the contributors.
What’s annoying me most is that this is a “method” they are using all the time. We are the ones that always end up discovering something new by chance and if we are lucky maybe we get a survey after all this.
For the time being, I’ll be waiting for an official statement that will address any doubts and questions I may have and I’ll be hoping for the best…
9 Likes
Oh man, oh man…
The longest word in German consists of 63 letters, and in another version, 79. You’ll probably never find this word in the subtitles, but we have a lot of long words, and then you’re supposed to shorten them somehow, especially in historical dramas?
Absolutely not? That’s not possible and our viewers don’t want this!!! Also the English terms for specific material arts and so are longer in German.
Whoever thought that was a brilliant idea, should be…
whoever thought so, should translate into our languages and try not just to think in English.
Please give us more space for other languages!
Some words that we certainly don’t find often in subs, but that do exist for our language:
Schifffahrt,
Verdauungsproblem,
Autovermietung,
Aufmerksamkeitsdefizit,
Haftpflichtversicherung,
Finanzdienstleistungsunternehmen,
Rechtschreibung,
Auseinandersetzung,
Auffahrunfall,
Fahrerflucht,
Diebstahlsicherung,
Weiterentwicklung,
etc…
So well… 
Having fun while translating looks different
6 Likes
As much has already been said, I will briefly add some of my thoughts:
I think we, at least once in our journey as editor, came across translators who write long sentences when it could be more concise. In that way, the reduction of characters limit is not a bad idea.
BUT 100 characters is way too little, 180-200 would be more appropriate if we consider counting italics, breaks, etc. Plus, TWO breaks by subtitle would be more reasonable since there might be two characters speaking with text below, or as mentioned, three short sentences in one segment.
As a contributor who volunteered on dramas such as One The Woman, Life and Mouse (just to name a few ones) where dialogues are compact and fast, one thing is clear: it would have been impossible to preserve the true meaning of the dialogues if this limitation had taken place at that time.
So yes, with a 100 characters limit the subtitles will only look like any other plateforms ones. And here I speak as a viewer myself, Viki is losing its authenticity. Other platforms may have shorter subs, but they still lack accuracy and people complain about it! What’s the point of watching a show when understanding only a half of the plot? The ones who used to pick Viki as their first choice to watch dramas because of the accuracy and authenticity of the subtitles will slowly but surely go somewhere else since there will be no difference anymore.
@vikicommunity Being able to join the contributor community was a great surprise when I discovered this website. Many changes occurred in 10 years and I learned to accommodate myself to it, but it becomes more difficult at each update you decide to implement without notice. These changes make our work more laborious when it might be easier if you didn’t do things unilaterally. I don’t think it’s too much to ask for being notified of possible changes impacting the tools we use on daily basis.
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La mia era solo una constatazione… L’italiano si presta alla sintetizzazione, punto. L’italiano è la mia lingua… Se viki mette un limite ai caratteri io mi adeguo. Non mi paga nessuno per fare questo servizio, ci impiego tempo e sudore, sinceramente fare una questione anche per quanti caratteri usare e discutere con lo staff non mi sembra il caso. Per me possono metterne anche di meno o di più, non mi cambia niente. Lo faccio per divertirmi non è un obbligo… Sugli altri siti nessuno si lamenta di come sono fatti i sub, e pagano per vedere i programmi. A nessuno interessa leggere note infinite… Non tutti sono così appassionati e fidati… gli appassionati cercano da soli le informazioni che vogliono. Io se scelgo di vedere un drama, voglio poter leggere i sub senza sforzi e velocemente… Non mi va di stoppare ogni cinque secondi perché è troppo lungo e non riesco a leggere quello che c’è scritto…
E comunque, io sono come Cristina. Anche a me piace accorciare i sub per renderli scorrevoli… Tu la pensi diversamente e va bene… ci mancherebbe…
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L’ho già scritto - ma forse non sono stata chiara?
Chi vuole accorciare, lo fa anche ora. Per voi dunque, limite o non limite, non cambia nulla. Mentre chi vuole fare diversamente, o chi non può sempre accorciare perché la sua lingua ha le parole lunghe, si trova davanti a seri problemi.
Quindi perché vi fa piacere che si implementi una cosa che a voi non aggiunge né toglie nulla, mentre mette gli altri in difficoltà?
Engels, graag.
Quando e dove ho scritto che mi fa piacere? Ho solo detto che non capisco perché agitarsi tanto visto che la nostra lingua si presta anche a questo…
I agree that the limit is too limited for languages like German and Greek and more like @irmar said. I believe a solution could be to have different limits for different languages. Not many volunteers have the time, knowledge and willing to give the effort necessary to think how to write more concise. Most of the time they prefer to translate exactly what it is being said in English. The only thing we try so many years to do is not to have more than two lines. I believe two lines even big are acceptable and readable in most cases. And of course we can’t have html characters count in the limit. They shouldn’t be counted. As for the break line problem that could be fixed by segmenters. They shouldn’t cut one segment for more that two people talking to each other. Totally agree with people saying that viki will lose its originality and advantage to other platforms if we limit too much our subs. As a viewer myself I hate watching other platforms subs if the same show is available here I will watch it here. A lot of times I find myself criticize other platforms and tv channels offline for the same reason. I hate it when a lot of content isn’t translated or mistranslated in my opinion to fit in the limit they have. Once in the past I tried out a test of one professional subbing company and a reason I didn’t pass it was because there were two lines I couldn’t cut something more to fit their limit. In my opinion it couldn’t make sense if I cut something more from the translation. So I gave up. I believe the meaning should be prioritized instead of the segment characters.
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Too literal, probably…
Segmenters already do it that way, but there are cases where we simply have no choice.
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After thinking about what I wrote above, I want to make a correction. Recently from covid and after a lot of our new and old Greek subbers do a great work at subtitling. They don’t translate too literal. It was unfair to say that they translate exactly what is wriiten.I am very happy with their work. However, still the 100 character limit is too much for our language.
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