Thoughts on abusive activity

[irmar]

[justine_desmoulins]
Question of the day:
Are moderators who only copy and paste OST considered abusers?

Of course not.
Usually I take care of all the OST. Because I had made the first translation, then the English changes (maybe because the OST has been released, or maybe because there isn’t an editor to check consistency, and each subber translates them as she wishes) and I have to change in the previous episodes, but sometimes I like the previous version better etc… Anyway, it’s a heck of a job, and I couldn’t expect any subber to do it.
I copy paste the OST before giving the green light to the subbers, so that they find it ready. At any rate, in my method of “continuous translation”, if they want to do more than one part, or two parts, or three, they are welcome. So it’s not that I deprive them from the chance to gain some subs.

Now of course, in my case, I also do the editing. Your question was about moderators who don’t edit, they just insert the lyrics. But my answer is the same. They cannot be considered abusers, since it is within their right.
I’ve seen some segmenters who also insert subtitles here and there, and OST lyrics. Maybe so that the others know which is the right place for them to be. They are not abusers either.
I once had a CM who knew a little Korean, so she inserted a translation every now and then, a simple sentence like “Are you okay” or “I love you” or “What do you mean?” etc. You know, the little things we all know by now. It was a bit funny, a translated sentence in the middle of nowhere, that the subber had to skip when she came to translate. Maybe the subbers were a bit annoyed, I don’t know… But since it gave this CM pleasure to ascertain the degree of progress she was making in Korean, that was no biggie for us.

[piranna]

Vague guidelines
+copying ost only is OK (no helping in subbing and/or editing = do the minimum)
+environment (= we lack subbers (subbing desert), we lack editors (it asks time to edit), we have more and more Viki pass obstructions so finding newborn is like finding…, we have not less dramas)
+no sanction (except last time: Viki bot)

= mix everything and you obtain…
The perfect recipe for:
Hoarding, unfinished subs, bot (and volunteers?)

It is impossible in French right now with the environment on Viki to have a moderator who doesn’t “have to” help = subbing and/or editing.
Why? Because of the speed and complains. One day or another, you lack subbers in the middle/end of the drama.
You normally moderate and/or manage more than one drama (and or segmenting, editing, subbing on dramas you do moderate or manage or don’t moderate or manage)

Except if you ask/beg for massive help on your drama as a moderator
Which leads to:
→ being a moderator in name only and the job is done by subbers and editors and one of them becomes the moderator (behind)
→ and the same mods continue to ask for it…

Creating this hole is an opening to hoarding.

Better to ask French teams.

PS:
The guidelines indicates max 4 on-air/mod:

If the moderator only fills OST, recruits… the number 4 is questionable.
Copying-pasting: it takes 5 min / ep in general.
With 4 on-air : 20 min for all of them / a day.
Translating and editing one: 20-30 min (and it’s only once).

How can we say it’s actively participating in a drama for a moderator with 20 min a day to fill OST.
Anyone can do it… no need to know the language.

If it only takes this amount of time; why limiting to 4 on-air.
For me, the limit of 4 has another meaning to a moderator activity on a drama.

[anna79_9]

to check consistency

I do not know if it is abuse but I would like to add one thing. I think you’re right for Korean dramas. It is important to check consistency of OSTs, because it is a real mess. HOWEVER, you should know that in Chinese dramas, Beginning / Final OSTs are always the same. They are identical. Which means that: usually the moderator / editor translates and edits both OSTs for the first episode and add them. Then, OSTs are still the same, just copy / paste for 60 episodes. A task that everyone can do. Personally, I let translators do that. Being a translator myself, I greatly appreciate copying / pasting the OST after hard translating a part for a while. Is it a reward or respect? I think I like listening to the OST too.

I remember a drama where I translated more than 20 episodes by myself, I had never heard the OST. No joke. But, that’s ok. Because the main thing is that viewers can watch the drama.

[irmar]

in Chinese dramas, Beginning / Final OSTs are always the same. They are identical.

Yes, you’re right, I didn’t take those into consideration. Because the very few times when I watch a Chinese drama I always skip them, LOL.
But even in Korean dramas they have beginning and ending credits songs. Especially the ending (the ending rock and roll/ rockabilly song in Melting Me Softly is making me crazy, I am not able to find it anywhere!)
The problem is that before the song is released, every subber gives her own version.
That’s why cgwm808 usually doesn’t sub songs before they are released. She releases the episode at 98% and then, when the official lyrics come out, she goes back and fills them in. They are easier to find if they are blank than if they were with a tentative, most often wrong, translation. Song lyrics often don’t make sense anyway even if you have the whole version in front of your eyes, so how to make sense of little snippets out of context that you catch by ear? Especially the English ones, with their grammar mistakes, can drive you crazy. Like “I want live I want love” from I Wanna Hear Your Song, or “The feeling of adore, oh take me on to you” from Encounter or… the list is endless)
In Chinese dramas, you get the official lyrics right away or do you have to wait for a couple of weeks like in Korean ones?

[anna79_9]

For Chinese dramas, most of the time, OST lyrics appear on the screen. If this is not the case, we usually have the official translations, or sometimes English team don’t wait for official translation. Generally, main OSTs (there can sometimes have only two OST for a drama of 60 episodes), are translated in the first episodes. It can happen that new OSTs appear as along the drama, they are then translated automatically and edited for everyone, all language, after released.

I’m not part of the English team, so they will speak better than me about that, but it’s better organized for Chinese dramas. Generally, it is organized from the beginning. Then it never changes (it’s always the same thing).

I know it’s very different with the Koreans dramas, though. And each team has its own way of managing things. But overall, I would say that all Chinese dramas don’t have the same problems with OSTs as Koreans dramas. Which makes things very easy for contributors on chinese dramas. This brings us back to the question: If OSTs are the same for 60 episodes, if they are translated and edited in English but also in the other language, that everyone can do it since there is just only to copy / paste… So that’s the question justine asking (Maybe not? I think that’s it).

Personally, for me it is not an “abuse” in the meaning of abusing/abuser. But it is an abuse in the meaning of respect. On a Chinese drama, there are usually 4 parts per episode, and we can have from 100 to 250 segments for a part. If the translators work hard to translate all this and, that arrived at the end, the moderator has only copy / paste the OST for the episode… One wonders what is the motivation of this act from moderator because it changes nothing that this is the translator who does it or not. This is only my opinion. Everyone does what he wants.

-> Maybe these persons have different opinions and reasons. Please, explain more your argumentation so.

[rose_shn]

I think it’s not an abuse if the team AND the mod also copy/paste the OST.

Like my case, i translate the OST and a co-mod will edit it after it. And in each ep everyone will get a different part so everyone, subbers and mod’s, will get the opening or ending ost.
Every german team works like that and every subber loves to copy/paste the OST because this will take some work of them if you translate a heavy & historic cdrama, you know what i am talking about

[piranna]

The question is not:

• Can the mod fill OST segments on episodes?
  Is he allowed to?

The question is:

• Can the mod only fill OST segments?
  Could he only do this task?
  Keyword: Only
  Synonym = Exclusively. He does this and only this as a moderator.

To be sure about what Justine meant:

Question 1:

So my question is, are those moderator who are ONLY copying and pasting OST abusing their authority, and should they be considered as abuser.

Well, just like feyfayer said, if they are ignoring their duties (for example leaving the drama unsubbed or unedited) and just doing that then yes. This is abuse.

Question 2:

I’m of course, talking about the first case.
Since it could be considered as abuse, what can be done to ensure that this case doesn’t occur?
When someone is abusing a drama, while subtitling and such, we do report them. In that case, what should we be doing? Because that’s a particular kind of abuse.

Answers suggestions:

Question 1:

• Read the Viki guidelines as a mod’s role.
  Actively participates: if 20 min a day only filling OST segments = actively participating as a moderator. I wonder what “moderate” or “moderator” not on Viki but everywhere means.
  4 on-air dramas max: for a good reason. I don’t understand this rule of 4 max with only filling OST.
  Incompatible between real activity and the reason of this rule existence…

• Hoarding:
  If it’s so easy, only fill OST and you won’t be considered a hoarder.

• What is not written on Viki guidelines = allowed?
  I don’t think so. It’s interpretation and common sense.
  If as a moderator you think it is okay only to fill OST subs, then let’s add it into Viki guidelines.

What will moderators and new moderators think it’s okay to do and will do?

• only filling OST subs
• telling that the 4 max is not compatible so put the limit higher.

And we will make it legit? LOL
Welcoming hoarding
We have not learnt from the bot

If all French moderators worked like that and we made it “okay”, we’d be in deep sea.
It would be impossible to finish many dramas or to edit without the mods who are editing their own dramas.
It would be impossible to have some quality.
It would be impossible to have the number of French subscribers we have today.

The job of a moderator is not the same than a subber, but it can’t be less than a subber in responsibility or in tasks to do.

Let’s be honest or realist, if it was the best of the world, we would have no hoarding matter, no report matters, subs would be there

As a moderator, who will only fill OST segments? It’s a task anyone can do, and it’s exactly because of this, that if a mod only does this: it is not fine. Why is he a mod if he only fills OST? Nonsense. What’s the use then to create a moderator role, what’s the use of a moderator if he doesn’t seek for the completion and quality (really seaking in action)? As a CM, you can count on whom?

And as a subber, who will only fill OST segments or credits?
As a moderator, if you see an Asian/Other language-English subber (a real one, not segmenter) copying pasting only OST segments in each episode: ?
Hello?

I will never teach to a new moderator: you can only fill OST and it’s fine.
And he will do it again and again… thinking it’s fine.
If as a mod, you don’t learn anything in this role or don’t want to: miss the whole point.

Question 2:
Report (Viki will see) and ask for a call with Viki (they said they’d try to do it).