Viki

[Viki Community Team] French Machine Translations


#44

@camiille

That’s good news for the French community. Please remove Sassy Girl from the bot list. That team was active and you know we only recently where able to sub it in English due all the problems. So the French team waited for so long to sub it and now this happened. It’s not fair to them.
Also filled in the form.


#45

How about putting a human between the machine and the subbing team. You could simply contact the CM and the Mod of the affected language beforehand and wait for an answer. Perhaps you need to have correspondence with them. As you have seen in other posts, there can be several reasons for inactivity, of which the bot can not know of.

In general I share the opinion of Irmar about a better project finder. If there was a better one who guides newcomers and doesn’t sent them without info about teams directly into on-air dramas, and one that allows subbers to find old projects.
The only reason why I’m subbing an old drama now and then is because I have already seen it and with the wish to re-watch it, I look for it on viki and realize it wasn’t subbed to german. I wouldn’t find them otherwise.


#46

Thank you!

If I could give some feedback:

To implement a tool to detect inactivity, the process of volunteering is the following:

Identifying the process and the different steps with its participants.
Knowing the process, V can find weaknesses and hence finding solutions.

Where in this chartflow the process of subbing in other languages could be blocked?
Knowing that we can’t skip steps and they have to be done in the order like a cooking recipe: we can’t add white eggs whisk if we haven’t whisked them.

Step 4 English subbing and editing
Some teams are blocked at step 4 that we could cut in 2 sub-steps:
Asking the Wwwh questions (where, what, who, how):

Step 4.1 translating in English
Who? English subbers in the team
Pre-requisite: visibility (subber sees the channel without having to search for a long time), no restricted access (Viki pass? Region?), recruitment from the people in charge of that and their visibility (I am a recruiter, I am looking for subbers for this drama, in this website, where can I find them and make them know that I am looking for them?), being recruited (ex: actively answering to recruitment PM)

Step 4.2 editing in English
Who? English editors in the team
Pre-requisite: almost the same than for English subbers

We can’t skip to Step 5 if step 4 is not completed.

Step 5 other languages subbing and editing

Step 5.1: translating in other languages
Same idea globally
Pre-requisite: English edition is completed (to have something clean and understandable in our own language, we need to start from something clean)

Step 5.2: editing in other languages

I would add step 3 that comes before step 4.
Step 3 segmenting
Who? Segmenters
Pre-requisite: same than before + Graduation in nssa
How? If we are correcting pre-segged dramas, we spend more time than doing it ourselves.

Limit to every actiivity:
We have a limited time to volunteering.
If we have 3 hours for ex;
1 hour to segment
1 hour to sub
1 hour to edit

If we have to spend more time in checking segments for a part or episode or editing Viki bot or pre-subbed, we don’t have more time for volunteering.
We have to give up one activity (subbing for ex) or do it another day or participate in less dramas.


#47

This is great for the French community and we are happy. However!

  • We do not want vikibot (translation + segmentation) on any channel, in any language.
  • We now want to discuss with vikistaff members in order to propose ideas to prevent this from happening again (the ideas were mentioned by Irmar)…
  • We also want more communication between you and us.

I think, Camille, you said “yes for that, but…” So the problem is not solved. We know you are inclined to listen now because we have your attention. It is therefore time for us to make ourselves heard, and our proposals. We hope you will make choices on these proposals.

The question is: where do we communicate with you? Should we post these recommendations in “help center”? Any proposal (DEAR CONTRIBUTORS)?

  • We want an answer about our recommandations. ANSWER FROM VIKI!
  • Otherwise, we know that you will do it again.

#48

I have a small suggestion that although is less effective but it still better than nothing.
I am aware that Viki is restricting QCs now because of legal issues and such (The lack of license for QCs I mean)
I don’t think it could be legally wrong to open the Bulk translation for QCs even for dramas not licensed for the region. I know it wouldn’t deliver the best subs but I think that even if all subbers use it, one editor with the license can edit out all the mistakes resulting from not being able to see the video.
I don’t think there is any legal issues there. The English subs belong to us afterall.


#49

You know, I want to believe that at the end was all a misunderstanding. Such a good thing to hear from Camille and such wonderful suggestions are being posted in honour of improvement here!

As I understand now, Viki staff tried to implement a tool that hasn’t been that helpful, but sure they’re working on it. Now I feel a little bad for what I wrote along the signing against vikibot, I didn’t cross-checked the information, assuming that all was carless and intentional. So I shall apologize for being judgemental and impulsive.

All united can make viki.com a better place, a better service for everybody.

So, fighting!


#50

There is something I would like to propose to add to the Marketplace. In order to find the best candidate, some form of assessment needs to be made.

  1. Volunteer statistics. (Quantitative assessment) Number of active projects, number of finished projects, number of projects with a role (moderator/CM) with little to no contribution.

  2. Grade based on experience from other team members. (Qualitative assessment) For example, CMs would be anonymously graded by their team members, mostly moderators and seggers. Seggers would be graded by CM and moderators. Moderators would be graded by CM and subbers. Subbers would be graded by moderators and CMs.

The grade would be split into several parts:

  • Ability to form a team and delegate work
  • Ability to work in a team, reliability and efficiency
  • Friendliness, helpfulness, support and communication
  • Segmenting/Language proficiency

Also, a special mark should be placed just above Newbies’ names. Shiny big letters, to spot them as soon as possible and take them into a team :blush:


#51

I think the grade could be great especially for CMs who don’t necessarily know the language so they can have more informations to choose the moderators and seggers they need for their team.


#52

What did you write? You can still change what you wrote?


#53

Unfortunately, the biggest problem arises when a drama is locked for the region with the highest number of translators to English. This is usually the US. If a drama is locked for the US, CM will have a really hard time finding a Kor-Eng or Chin-Eng translator available elsewhere.

Not to mention the obvious - having access to more dramas as a QC would be a nice bait for new volunteers.

Additionally, to compensate further for the region-free access for QCs, I suggest the number of mandatory contributions every six months be raised from the current 500 to 2.000 contributions.


#54

The thing is:

We suppose people do it in all honesty.
If you meet people with bad intentions or who don’t have good relationships, they might be biased.

I could put I only have 3 active projects.
I finished 20.
I could create other accounts to vote a main account…

And it could hurt people… as it could make them happy. It would be like judging them in public and allowed by Viki. Ethics problems.
We could have people who complain after on the “grade” they received from others…


#55

You can check it in the following link. Look for my nickname near the final signings. Nothing bad or offensive, but implies lack of faith in viki: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZzH0pF3dmQNeVWQrE-uHABb1JJariEkaHbzT6MgonN4/edit#gid=0

I cannot change it, because it’s locked by the moderator. I tried to ask for editing, but Chloé was inactive.

Edit: Regarding the last Bozoli’s suggestion, I agree with Piranna too much surveillance, one of the best things it’s that the community is build upon trust and passion for dramas and languages.


#56

This would be great for volunteer finders
I have another suggestion for the Project Finder:

  • The shows should be sorted according to the number of missing subs (ascending or descending according to the user’s will given that those less that 50 for example don’t show (because these 98% subbed episodes are already done) and the moderator and CM must have the right to remove their project from it.

*there should be filters based on what one wants to do (moderation, subbing, maybe range of number of episodes one may want on a show because some people don’t like working on long shows, etc…), filters according to Country and genre,etc…
But there has to be some place that shows older dramas that are missing subs. I tried to do this manually and it was extremely tiring, time consuming, and of course not practical at all given the number of shows Viki has.
So please get us an efficient Project finder other than that one that’s only good for finding a channel to manage…


#57

I’m unlocking it if you wish to modify some things, just have to let me know. I lock to be sure nobody will delete messages since it happened when we started.


#58

so why viki don’t allow one accound by IP’s adress ?


#60

The human-made grade is always biased, but what is good about this solution is…

  1. that it goes both ways
  2. that moderators are always outnumbered by subbers, so the one in a more “powerful” position is de facto outnumbered.

There will always be trolls. Luckily, they are a few in comparison to others.

I think interpersonal conflict hurts people much more than a set of numbers from 1-5. Or, rather, words hurt more than numbers. Conflicts we experience on Viki especially shoo away newer volunteers. And they make the project sometimes a living hell for you, for the person you are in conflict with and for your CM.

Additionally, the more voters a person has, the better is the estimate, since the average after 50 people voted is a more honest grade than after two people voted, with or without the trolls. Trolls’ votes would get suffocated in the majority’s vote.

The grading must be anonymous. There is no other way.

Additionally, the grading should be something you as a user must approve for yourself. You should get an option whether you wish to be graded or not, and still be able to use the Marketplace freely.


#61

I am confused? The most lack we have is original language to English, or am I wrong?
Without hearing how can there subtitles created?
Don’t we need a base on which a bulk translation would be possible or are you thinking of only the “lifted access” for other language subber?

All subs belong to Viki, the moment you save them.


#62

It’s a good idea when people are respecting the idea.

Some volunteers might like to have a list of subbers they could pick and just pick “the best”.
If the list is a lie, we won’t be able to benefit from the pros of the “grades”.
And I could create 10 accounts to grade 1 being another of mine and I would approve.
Or I could disapprove all bad ratings whereas people who rated had a basis to put this rate.

I don’t know.
For me, it touches something sensitive when it’s alluding to judging (people? Competences? Honesty?)

I thought about it too first, but then I thought it would be too complicated to manage. Subjective, people feelings involved… complicated.

And giving more place to new volunteers. If people just want the best and not new because it asks time to make them “operational” on viki.
Someone can improve.
If sb put a bad grade, it could be demotivating whereas it’s someone who just wants to progress.

I don’t know.


#63

I meant other languages.
I notice that although Korean-English or Chinese-English maybe slow but I think in comparison to other languages they almost always get the job done in less than a couple of days whereas other languages may spend years so maybe this option could be of help to some.


#64

I made this to help raise awareness and make a point about how bad machine translations can be. Feel free to share!


Machine translation from Viki