Do you think there’s any chance that is part of a licensing agreement, or is it really just because Viki doesn’t want to deal with the time it takes to get episodes released?
I can’t fathom any business reason why the producer of a movie or drama would specify that the English subtitles not be edited, just as I don’t understand why the producer would want to keep secret what regions the movie or drama can be seen.
I want to screeeeeeaaaaaam!
The same happened for taxi driver 1. The show is subtitled and edited solely by staff…
I don’t see any good in forbidding us to translate into any language except for the chosen few either, yet it’s the new normal for movies.
If that really is the reason, they don’t have to bother with those video samples for Spanish and Portuguese rookies anymore either. Who wants quality anyway?
At least as OL mod, you could make sure that your subtitles are great. English natives with any knowledge of Croatian might prefer watching your subs over the crappy ones in their mothertongue.
Of course, it would be an extra challenge for you, but at least on this side, you still have some influence on the quality.
And everyone who doesn’t, is automatically excluded for no reason whatsoever. And it doesn’t even make things go faster since it’s just more work for one person.
Not “maybe,” but “definitely.”
If Season 2 is the sequel to Season 1, I’d prefer to know what happened in Season 1 first, but in that case, it’s Viki’s fault that they release both at the same time. If the seasons have nothing to do with each other, it shouldn’t matter and each season could have its own team.
Sadly, those are the people who are valued by Viki more than anything else in the world. Their wish is the volunteers’ command.
If I watch a show, no matter on what platform, and the subtitles irritate me (even though I still understand them), I prefer to switch to subtitles in another language, even if my only alternative options are languages I don’t understand for the full 100%.
But I’m not an average viewer. I’ve heard that there are indeed people on this planet who prefer fast but terrible subs. Whether they form the majority? Please don’t let me know the answer…
If I had to pick between ‘‘viki’’ subtitle and @worthyromance I would definitely pick [viki] since it makes more sense with less needless wording in them.
I have never heard you can ‘‘produce a job’’ but you can ‘‘produce a product’’. In my opinion @worthyromance subtitle has some mistakes in them.
It makes absolutely no sense to me that @worthyromance wrote that she’s a teacher (unless I’m confusing her with someone else) ANY teacher would no that writing in a sentence ‘‘to produce a better job’’ not only sounds wrong, it is wrong.
THERE WAS absolutely no need to EDIT this sentence. that Viki staff wrote.
Viki Staff | Feb 9
“What do I need to do to do a better job and attract more fans?”
Now, I understand why they don’t want to wait for ENGLISH EDITING, if the editing was not needed in the first place. All those extra words will affect the new method of segmenting they are using in dramas/movies etc. because the shorter the segment the less words need to be in them, and guess what? Sometimes less, is more. Like in this case where the viewers will get better quality in their subtitles before the editing got done.
In this case, I will debate only that maybe a second person did say: “Ok” (I know is YES not Okay). But since I don’t know if this is the same drama I worked on which so happens they DID needed reinforcement because a rescue team was already there, but they needed a specialist to be able to rescue a trapped person in a dangerous mountain hill. So if this is the same drama; the Lieutenant in the rescue team instruct them to get more reinforcement (also at one point requested a specialist in rescuing people in dangerous mountain hills).
TE | Feb 11
- Send a rescue team.
viki | Feb 10
-Tell them to send reinforcements.
I had two CMs specifically ask me to edit the subs to fit the timing of the segments .
How adding more words in a subtitle benefit the timing of a segment? Is that something new here? I don’t think so though because even back in 2013 the CM would emphasize we wrote in Spanish shorter sentence/subtitles to fit in the segments.
I hope the CEO is reading this, and makes necessary evaluation going on in here because in my opinion a PAID SUBBER meets all the qualifications to make a good QUALITY subtitle, and no one should be doing any editing in them in the first place. If RakutenViki is paying these subbers is because they did their research and know they are worth paying them.
The situation changes if the editing is done by regular subbers/translators, who are proficient in the Original language like KOREAN/CHINESE/JAPANESE etc, but may not be proficient enough in the English language, and their subtitles do or might need correct editing work done in them.
Viki needs a much better solution than Spanish and Portuguese going before origin language translators!
WHO are we to tell the CEO/Investors who goes first than who? Before viki staff makes any decision they must/have to consult with the higher ups. It’s ridiculous how some people here thought all this time they ‘‘run this show’’ in here, and now that many great/fair changes are happening for the BENEFIT of paying viewers/subscribers since they can get now what they need/deserve as paying subscribers (not to be waiting around for subtitles) that could be in dramas in a faster amount of time, with also quality in them.
I have analyzed a lot of edited work some EDITORS have done in here in dramas/movies, and no offense but in my opinion they don’t qualify to be doing any kind of EDITING work in English because they don’t know the Grammar rules to follow or are proficient enough in the English language, but declare they do.
If the CEO/Investors are willing to give the Spanish and Portuguese groups priority; they must have their own good reason to do so because ppl. get it through your heads already, nothing here goes on without the seal of approval of the investors/ owners/ boss. ALTHOUGH I hope they do get rid of some rotten apples they have in the Spanish teams, and I can provide plenty of evidence why.
@worthyromance PLEASE take care of your health because that should be your #1 priority in life (if is true you recently had a stroke) by the intense stressful vibes I feel in your writings; you are putting your health at risk, on a hanging thread, and that makes absolutely no sense to me. We only have one life, and we can’t add years to our life, if we are killing ourselves by adding unnecessary stress in our body.
c(1): something that has to be done : task
was given the job of delivering the bad news
(2): an undertaking requiring unusual exertion
it was a real job to talk over that noise
2a**:** a piece of work
doing odd jobs around the house
Repairing the roof was a big job.
especially : a small miscellaneous piece of work undertaken on order at a stated rate
a car that needs a brake job
b**:** the object or material on which work is being done
c**:** something produced by or as if by work
did a nice job
d**:** an example of a usually specified type : item
the limousine was a long white job
3a : something done for private advantage
the whole incident was a put-up job
b**:** a criminal enterprise
specifically : robbery
There comes a time in everyone’s life when you need a lawyer. And I’m not implying that you’re going to hold up a liquor store or pull a bank job anytime soon. —
c**:** a damaging or destructive bit of work
did a job on him
4 chiefly British : state of affairs
—usually used with bad or good
it was a good job you didn’t hit the old man—
E. L. Thomas
5**:** plastic surgery for cosmetic purposes
an eye job
see [nose job](Nose Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster job)
A rescue team saves people who were shot in the scene.
Reinforcements are more soldiers to fight in the war.
Of course, you are welcome to disagree with me.
How can I improve and attract more fans?
How can I improve to attract more fans?
How can I improve in order to attract more fans?
This one depends on the context of the previous sentences. If this is the current rescue team, then “Tell them to send reinforcements.” is fine left alone.
Left the way you wrote your sentence; these are all incomplete sentence in the sense the person wants to know what changes he/she needs to do in his/her job performance in order to attract more fans. There was no need to change it into what @worthyromance change it to, and you too since they are all incomplete sentence since you omitted an important part of the first sentence that connects the second part you wrote above.
Mirjam, I’m not gifted in other languages as you are. If a romance is available on Netflix, iQiyi or Viki, I watch it on Viki. I like that most Viki editors include all the signs which are relevant and they edit the pre-subs to make sense! I watched a romance on another platform when it first came out. The dating contract was not subbed so I had no idea it was a contract relationship, because the translated dialogue was below par! I very rarely watch dramas twice, but when I watched it on Viki, I understood things properly. What a joy!
I’m currently watching “Adventurous Romance” (12 episodes) on another platform, and I am confused by the subs to understand the plot, although I’m halfway through the drama. If it came to Viki, viewers would comment about the bad subs! Some of my Viki friends are willing to wait until all the subs are edited. But that may mean 6 weeks to 6 months depending on the CE.
When I watch a drama on Viki, I can usually tell at which episode the CE has finished editing, and when it’s still just pre-subs. There are some dramas where I get to the end and see all final team credits, yet half the subs still didn’t appear edited. I don’t go looking at the subtitle team to determine if I will watch a drama. Some editing teams produce a better job. ( I just had to be ironic with a tongue-in-cheek reference.)
The subs on Viki have the sweat and hard work of volunteers who go the second mile to create better subs. A GE remarked about a scene, after I edited it, that the emotional impact touched her. I edit for the viewers.
It’s directly from Merriam Webster Dictionary, which all English editors use. I should have added the link, but I know that other editors would see the MW links and understand it’s the dictionary. Job Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
I’m sorry you were unable to understand it’s from the dictionary.
I left out some words so viewers could fill in the holes themselves. The sentence might be incoherent out of context, but it’s not incomplete. The second one “How can I improve to attract more fans?”
is grammatically incorrect. looks odd to me. I’m assuming the context of a workplace is already there.
How can I improve my performance and attract more fans?
The to do to do repetition was bothersome. Your brain might just skip over the second to do, then it makes little sense.
This is so funny I’ve been cracking up.
Anyway, I was working with what was offered in front of me by the viki staff sub, and it would have helped us more if we had the title and time of scene where the subtitle was written, but even then, we really need to know the original language the sentence came from in order to make a better assessment of the subtitle in question here. I still feel there was nothing wrong in the viki staff subtitle that merits the changes. I wish the CEO owners of this site would give us his opinion on this subject since is very important to maintain quality in the subtitles and it clearly needs more attention.
This sentence is also not grammatically incorrect in and of itself. It’s a full and complete sentence on its own. Just like all of your other suggestions are not actually incomplete sentences. That’s an incorrect analysis of them. It’s hard to make judgments about individual subtitles because they will always be taken out of context. There is no way for us to know if the relevant and necessary information can be found in preceding or subsequent segments.
I agree about the repetitive use of “to do to do” in @worthyromance’s original post. This would never be approved by an English teacher. That type of repetitiveness is something to be avoided in good writing, so that subtitle would need to be changed, regardless.
Also, my math might be wrong, but @worthyromance’s edited version actually has one less word than the original, even if it has more characters. Sometimes a word with more characters or even extra syllables fits better in the flow of the sentence, making it easier and faster to read and thus more desirable as a subtitle.
IMO, worthyromance is an excellent editor. I may not always agree with her choices, but I trust that she has the viewers’ best interests in mind when she makes edits. But now we’ve gotten way off track in this thread. It suddenly became a lesson in good editing. Oops.
I left out some words so viewers could fill in the holes themselves.
We just need to let the viewers become mind readers, and fill in the holes. I rest my case.
But you don’t know that for sure. Without knowing what was said before or after, you can’t tell if the audience is missing anything. That was one of the points I was trying to make. One sub on its own does not tell a whole story. I won’t judge it without knowing the rest of the context.
Edited to add: In the case of subtitles, we also have visual clues to draw from. Some things are easily inferred from what is happening onscreen.
I get you now. Both subtitles definitely have mistakes in them, but in my opinion and since I had no choice but to choose between those two; is why I added that I preferred the paid subber’s subtitle since it made more sense to me (never heard such thing as ‘‘produce a job’’). I don’t want to offend @worthyromance in any which way, shape or form, but as a Teacher she should have known that part in the sub she wrote; was wrong. We are in a way teaching those viewers who want to learn and improve their English (which is harder for some ppl.compared to others), and if we make mistakes like that one, we are doing no favor to those that come here to better themselves in the English language. Like I always say: No one here is perfect, but we must always strive to give the best we can give to the viewers, and that didn’t cut it for me.
I’m a person who aims for solutions. I thank everyone for their feedback, positive or negative. Here is the message I just sent to the team.
"This is how our English Team will work with everyone: As soon as the episode is segmented, the other language subbers are allowed to start translating off the pre-subs, as decided by Viki. I will also edit and format each episode to make work easier for everyone involved. Then our TEs will check each episode as soon as they can and fill in any blanks left. I will format their edits, and then the OL Mods can do final edit of the episode.
Depending if it’s my daytime in Canada, I will start each episode as soon as the segments have QC. I am giving this drama first priority! OL subbers can wait for my GE edit or proceed. But I ask OL Moderators to please wait on your final edit until after the TEs have checked the episode, and I have formatted their edits as CE.
This is our first time trying this exact method. We don’t want to pressure anyone, since we value all your volunteer contributions! I am willing to try this because our CM has kindly asked me to help. If this works for airing dramas, that is fine. If we find it’s too complicated for OL Teams, and you are unhappy about it, please let us and Viki know.
This is a Viki Original, and we don’t want to sacrifice quality for speed. Our English Team will do our best to prevent plot holes, inconsistencies, and provide correct edits with the proper emotional impact."
That is what I sent to the team. I pondered this because I know how much it will impact other CEs and English Teams. It really isn’t a precedent that I want to set! I’m a firm believer that rushing creates the likelihood of more mistakes.
I understand the dilemma of CMs who are now put in this unfair position by Viki. I supported one CM to tell Viki that we can release only four episodes per week for that airing drama, and the OL Teams wait for us.
I’m willing to try this new method one time, but it will take a toll on my energy. I don’t recommend it to other editors who care about the quality of their work.
If Viki chooses to phase out volunteers, using only paid subs, the quality of subs will decline to be like all other Asian drama websites. I will still struggle to understand the Asian drama subs, without decent editing, because I love the romance, settings, culture, actors and story lines. In that case, I would choose other Asian drama websites with mostly romances. The whole reason I am on Viki is for the quality of the subs.
Sorry I am late to this discussion, but I wanted to share my thoughts on this issue.
First, I thought a major reason why Viki has English Editing Teams is to make things easier for the OL Teams by providing subs that are free of grammar and spelling errors, formatted correctly, and contain translations that are correct, make sense, and flow well.
If OL Teams have to use the Pre-subs then it will be much more difficult for the OL Teams since they will need to deal with all of these issues and also have to back over the subs multiple times for editing process. OL Teams and OL viewers will have to deal with varying quality of subtitles.
The Reason for this Change by Viki:
- To get subtitled episodes/films to viewers in their language as soon as possible. Other platforms release content fully edited and ready to watch in multiple languages. If it is on the platform viewers can watch instantly. This is the predominant model and viewers expect it here at Viki as well. Viki wants to stay competitive.
- With the new Moderator/Manager channel limits of 3-5 projects, moderators and managers want to finish projects as soon as possible so they can accept new projects. It would be great if all English Editing Teams could work and release 2-4 episodes a week, but sadly that does not always happen. Weeks and sometimes even months can go by with no episodes being released to OL mods, tying up their project limits and preventing them from taking on other popular projects that viewers in their languages want to watch. So viewers lose out again and Viki loses some competitive edge as well.
So the solution for Viki is to release content to OL mods as soon as it is segmented. That way they do not have to wait and viewers get content in their languages that much sooner. Quality may suffer, but speed improves. (But does speed really improve if OL subbers are dealing with all of the difficult pre-subs issues?)
This new rule sounds like more stress on everybody who volunteers, which distresses me. I am also very troubled by the information shared here about Viki forbidding English language Editing Teams, Subtitlers, and even Segmenters on projects. I understand that Viki wants to get content out as soon as possible, but what Is the harm in letting English Editing Teams go through and edit the episodes/films after they are released? Viewers are not prevented from watching content as soon as possible. Why forbid volunteers from improving content?
If Viki allowed the formation of large Teams on these projects instead of 1 person, then episodes/films could be Edited and Released quickly. Many hands make light work. I do not understand why they are preventing people.
For sure, Viki has the reputation of having the highest quality subs of all platforms. This is entirely due to the Volunteers. Viki uses this reputation to market itself and gain subscribers. I do not understand why Viki wants to destroy that by not letting Volunteers at least work on episodes/films after they are released.
Do people care about the quality of the subtitles? Yes, they do. I have seen on other forums numerous complaints about the quality of the subs on various platforms. I have seen countless times the question " Are the subs good quality?" for a particular drama or film. I have also seen the statement “Viki has the best subs.” over and over again, as well as " I hope drama title X gets picked up by Viki so we can have good quality subs." If Viki loses that distinction, then why would viewers pay for Viki membership? They can watch the same quality for less money other places.
Right now, as an English-language viewer, I have the choice to watch content as soon as it is uploaded or to wait until it is edited. I choose to wait until the content is edited. So much Viki content these days comes not from Volunteer subbers but from outside providers. Many times I will wait until all episodes are edited so that I can just binge or watch everything at my own pace without having to worry if any episodes are unedited. That can sometimes mean me waiting many months before I watch a drama, which can be very frustrating, But that is my choice. I choose to wait for Edited content because it provides me with the best viewing experience when subs make sense, flow well, and are free of grammar and spelling errors.
If this new rule at Viki means that OL viewers have the same choice, then I can understand where Viki is coming from, even if I don’t fully agree with the decision. But if this rule means eliminating the English Editing Teams, or forbidding projects from having TE, GE, and CE members, or preventing Viki Volunteers as a whole from working on projects, then I do not support it al all.
Oh, I have been doing this for a while now.
For instance in Lovers of the Red Sky last summer.
It came pre-subbed. I dived in just after the segmenters to correct all the basic things such as repeat subs from flashbacks (I kept all the subs in our Google sheet for that purpose), italics, remove square brackets and cosmetic breaks, remove instances of “okay” and other modern slang as it was a historical (fantasy, but historical nonetheless), streamline uppercase/lowercase, people’s titles, in short all the things that don’t relate to meaning. And of course invert Korean word order. This was done very quickly, and the OL team had the understanding that they could start translating if they wished to, leaving the editing for later.
We did have a TE back then, and a good one too! At that time Viki didn’t dare suggest that we skip this very important person! So when she had finished her checking the meaning and filling in blanks, I went back again (because sometimes Korean TEs might introduce less than perfect English), but looking only at the parts she had changed (with CTRL+F and her name) and then our CE. I often went back once more after her, too, to spot any eventual typos or inconsistency with titles (we’re human, and things may slip through the net, a second set of eyes is always good).
The OL teams knew exactly how much of the editing was done before the final release, so it was their choice at what stage they wanted to start subbing.
Oh, in that particular drama, after release, Viki changed the videos and put others that had on-screen explanations. We had to go and add those (in most cases it was redundant, because it was already explained in the sub, or just repeated some person’s title). So everyone had to go yet another time through the whole thing. Ugh!
It was lucky that it was a good and interesting drama. Imagine having to do this for a boring and lame one! And it was even more lucky that the anonymous paid subber was an excellent one. Not only that, but she closely monitored Team Discussions, so whenever we decided a change, she immediately implemented it. I was really impressed because this is more than the average Ko-En volunteer subbers do (some do it, most don’t). Sadly, this wasn’t the case in many other projects, where the paid subbers constantly made childish mistakes and were much worse than our own volunteers.