Viki's New LEARN MODE (BETA)

Language Discussions Language Learning
21

Clearly, this is going to need to be rephrased…and I have already accepted your above “challenge”…sigh. That’s how I AM learning, by the way, as I right now have NO time to enlist in a more elementary and more conventional method!

I see what you are saying, and yes, I am hearing you, BUT, consider please someone who is trying to correctly learn a language. The US State Department happens to tell us that Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Arabic EACH take on the order of 2500 classroom hours for fluency…for an English-speaking person.

Not everyone is going to be able to distinguish correct language or they might already be learning WITHOUT this feature.

(sigh). Harsh as your words are - yes, some people DO need spoon feeding as they are truly infants in languages you are very fluent in. I would not expect someone to take up English from well…Shakespeare.

And that…is EXACTLY what we are asking with a historical/costume drama. Picture taking a citizenship test…if all you are given is archaic English? Visiting a food vendor and trying to order? Telling a cabbie where you need to go?

With all due respect, IMHO it will require a professional and thorough edit, and limit to certain modern dramas. Two reasons for this suggestion: One - the above problem with learning the archaic as opposed to a modern and usable language generally. While some of you might be amused/bemused if we “thee and thou” about in your native tongue, it is not as useful and we might be highly entertained were the shoe…truly on the other foot. :slight_smile: Rather than a subject for your entertainment, I want to be truly educated.

The second reason, AGAIN laid out above, is the problem of server space, and what happens if everyone decides to use this in unison? Without a really effective IT plan laid out, this would bring the entirety of vikiworld to a halt - watching, volunteering, and playing with the new toy would all cease. Failure of the IT variety at vikiworld would also impact other sites who indeed feast at the table set by the volunteers, and benefit viki/rakuten directly.

I do not think this new feature should be universal - far from it. I believe the wisest choice would be to select a couple from each category - PROFESSIONALLY spend the money and yes TIME to be sure the meanings ARE correct, as the example above shows this not to be the case…and ensure the usefulness to those who are not rocket scientists nor aspire to be, but wish to learn at their own pace and pleasantly to effectively speak a bit of your language.

moonandstars, you are the clear exception to rules most people on this planet do not readily evade. (deep breath). Anyone who has tried to teach English to a new person from anywhere on the globe may attest that it is an uphill climb. Not all are mountain climbers, and if this is to a truly useful tool to those who are NOT wanting to learn Shakespeare :slight_smile: we must gentle the road and be sure it is properly paved. A gentle slope encourages folks to climb it for the view. With all apologies, I believe your proposal makes it the intimidating and nearly unscalable K2. (and here we have it even in English, even this discussion box has wrongly highlighted “unscalable” - which is indeed, proper English!).

Warmest Regards and pardon my candor, but humanity cannot readily soar with eagles if they are not given pilots and airplanes. You appear to be asking them to dance where angels fear to tread, on nothing but the clouds above… :slight_smile:

I will say that I truly envy your ability to use both languages effortlessly. :slight_smile: I will likely not meet your standard before my lifespan ends and I throw off this mortal coil…! And if I do achieve a decent standard of Mandarin style Chinese…well…(grin) you will have to get rid of my success on any bell curve measure you employ. Because it’s possible that being a student first of rocket science - and atomic/subatomic physics may give me a slight edge in well, learning by right and wrong examples mixed together. :slight_smile: If we were to agree to limit attempts of K2 to elite mountaineers, we may enjoy far more success. :slight_smile: and less frustrating and tragic failure.

Linda/Crouching Dieter, Hidden Donut

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22

I adore sageuks and the equivalents in both Chinese and Japanese, but would I want to speak that way were I to visit that country? Most certainly not!

Shakespeare has admirers for centuries around the world. Would they want to learn that English and then go on vacation and try to make it through without difficulty…?

Those who truly love the archaic possibly also have more intelligence with which to pick up the phrases and learn without the pretty toy. They also might be the sort to look up the actual history and discern the differences from fact when presented with popular “faction” dramas as well.

Again, not all want to study Shakespeare nor speak as the Bard did. :slight_smile:

And for those who might say, “What does Shakespeare have to do with this?” Plenty. For the very ancient forms of English are no friend to the new foreign student any more than they are to those whose mater lingua is English from the cradle. The historical and costume dramas are not going to be the best investment of time and resources for this project, for in the end…there likely is a financial aspect looming just outside of our peripheral and centrally focused vision of this project…

Warmest Regards,

Crouching Dieter, Hidden Donut
ok…or…Latin? My mentor’s motto: Per Ferrum, Ad Astra

23

I mostly agree with the server and the editing issues, but I disagree on the choice of content.

Beginners who can’t tell elementary mistakes shouldn’t rely on this method of learning. It is not advisable. If learners use it as an audio-visual phrasebook, they won’t go far. I think it’s best suited for intonation, pronunciation and recurring phrases.

Also, I believe that, although archaic content is not very useful in modern situations, it is part of the language and a person can’t advance without it, let alone understand cultural references in everyday conversations.

About making sure that the translations are correct and that the viki server won’t die mid-episode, I agree. It’s one of the buggiest Viki features.

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24

Are not MOST people on this globe outside of China actual beginners in CHINESE?

(After examining the general trend in USA network tv offerings, I would swear the majority in USA are beginners in English…and not exactly improving their overall English skills by watching TV?)

The fluent ones do not need this tool!

The audience, whether we are writing, speaking or working on a project is of paramount importance.

If you are looking to train more Mandarin subbers who can do historical - great. The same tool is not sufficient for the vast majority of folks trying to learn a difficult language.

I for one do not want to spend time trying to explain the use of the phrase 'Nine Yin Bone Crushing Skull Technique" to someone…sigh.

Will I be able to watch NIF provided I have the time without a lag that makes me CRY? :frowning:

CD, HD.
Oh…and where is all this extra time to spend with the new toy coming for us volunteers? is there a new segmenting tool that will do all of that? super subber 2017 that will put the subs in for us and edit it all? if you enjoy all those lovely “where’s the subs” postings…maybe you and I will get sooo many more…and not so polite if the toy isn’t ready when they want to use it? “well how come I can’t get the new language thing in MY language for YOUR drama YESTERDAY??” We really do have a bit of a current shortfall of both types of help…? Wait…I could be spending this time eating and sleeping…and it might be more realistic, as vikigods of rakuten shall do what THEY consider right…so I am probably wasting virtual breath. wo bu zhi dao…? gao ci. (sigh)

25

Probably. Therefore, this tool is only to train their ears and to help them read simple characters by repetition.

I think this tool is for intermediate learners, not beginners. Fluent learners don’t need it, either.

Edit: by the way, I hope someone is correcting the english subs and that they don’t use the autotranslate ones many dramas seem to offer.

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26

Ahh. I see what the issue is. I think we are starting from different perspectives.

For you, you’re seeing the Learn Mode as something that can allow you to learn language from scratch, but for me, I’m viewing Learn Mode as a supplementary tool for people who already have their basics in place. And currently, from what I can see, Learn Mode is useful only for these 3 aspects: widen one’s vocabulary, familiarise you with the various grammatical structures, and for listening. That’s all. It cannot help you with speaking, it only familiarises you with spoken forms of TV Chinese, not necessarily everyday spoken, and definitely not written. It can only allow for rote memorisation and will not explain the whys.

No, I would not recommend historicals for any newbie picking up the language, in fact, I wouldn’t even recommend modern dramas to them.

Would you get someone with no knowledge of English to start learning by simply watching Friends, albeit with subtitles? Only the truly hardworking and determined ones will ever get anywhere on it. And even so, they sometimes speak weird TV English that doesn’t normally get used in normal life. For total beginners, you start with kids programmes and cartoons (aka Nihao, Kailan? That’s what I’m told the Chinese version of Dora the Explorer is). You only start with modern dramas after you know the basics or depending how basic your level is, intermediate. And you only start with historicals or specialised dramas (e.g. legal/medical) when you reach advanced.

Also, speaking from my experience learning Thai through dramas, it’s fun and interesting to learn a language through dramas. But it requires A LOT of work. If you want spoonfeeding, then the fastest and easiest way is still regular language classes. Seriously. I learned a whole lot more and was able to learn from dramas after picking up the basics in the classroom. Before that, I was grabbing random phrases I heard and guessing what was the verb, the noun, etc. And half the time, I wasn’t guessing right what the pronunciation of the word was.

The Learn Mode is still an automatic spoon. It will try to spoonfeed you, but the spoon is at a certain height, and feeds you at a certain pace. If you’re not tall enough for your mouth to be at it’s level, or it feeds too fast, too bad, the food will just splatter.

Don’t get me wrong. I’d LOVE for the Learn Mode to be programmed to become a more comprehensive language learning tool. There’ll be new lessons to learn for every episode, new vocab to learn, new grammar structures that you can learn. That’d be a dream come true. But it’s current features do not offer that.

Although it definitely seems doable to have them categorize the Learn Mode dramas into Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced.

And that’s not true. There’s lots of Chinese diaspora who know some Chinese but aren’t actually good at it, and would like to improve.

Also, these beginners in Chinese DO improve (if they don’t, they obviously aren’t learning) so there needs to be different levels to cater to people at different stages of learning.

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27

Ok. At this point, it appears to be a determined belief that more people are beyond beginner than I have stated. Fine. I will give you this: Asian diaspora - I will say sure, it is possible that there are a number of folks OUTSIDE actual “China” current or previous country that have some base in Mandarin. Within China - aren’t there also Cantonese speakers who might not be fluent in Mandarin?

The world presently has around 7 billion humans. NATIVE: 873 million 2nd: 178 million TOTAL: 1.051 billion THAT Is the figure for ALL speakers of Mandarin Chinese world-wide. that also GENEROUSLY includes people who embrace it as a “second language” or learned tongue.

MY point…which apparently still isn’t embraced - is that this leaves a really large number without sufficient base for a learning tool that does NOT spoon feed them to a point where a more “thinking” mode of learning can be engaged. That is roundly, 6 billion people.

Say I was the mother ship at viki/rakuten. What would my motive be in building this, and who is it for.

Will it profit me to build it, and why. How. And do I have the infrastructure - to support and make it correct.

Questions rather than answers, and I shall not hold my breath. I would suggest the approximately 6 million true BEGINNERS in this language also use it with care, as the above examples show it has a lot of work to reach a point where they too can use it.

And now - although I have enjoyed this discussion - I do not see a further purpose in it - I do want to improve my Mandarin. What I am doing right now is helping, but I also may be considerably different from “average” in both my way of learning and capacity as I am no college student. :slight_smile:

Warmest Regards, and the discussion has been very interesting. Will the lords of viki/rakuten hear and take into account the intelligent discussion and information here? Those who have discussed with me also should recognize I am not an adversary, but as with all new things, new ideas, there must be a person asking the questions to improve the new thing, rather than merely accept it without questions. Would I welcome a truly well-made, and really great way to improve my Mandarin? Of course!

All of this remains to be seen and it is clearly outside of our own control. :slight_smile:

CD,HD

3 Likes
28

Agreed. It is not for beginners, and even so - with a discerning ear - you would need to have enough knowledge to get past variations in translation…which may or may not help you “perfect” your language skills.

Another limited, by the way, is English skills. I would guess that using an English-Chinese translation tool is a challenge to a segment of the population here in USA to begin with…! The success of this relies on more than just the ability to learn, it requires a good base in your mother tongue as well. Hate to keep using poor Will, but yes…:slight_smile:

Anyway - it is interesting no one wanted to argue against my IT question…a considerable hurdle here.:slight_smile:

And you also have suggested professional vetting of the subs to be SURE the ones they use are as correct as they can be - again though, I have found you can have significantly different and still “correct” ways to see the same characters…in the same drama, same scene. Anyway…the challenge of Chinese to English is considerable and back to the work of trying to bring those dramas to the world.

Personally I’m up for the climb to see what I can see from up there…but want the safety ropes to be sure I don’t fall. :slight_smile:

29

OMG!! This is awesome!! I can’t wait to get the Korean-English dual subtitles!! Viki is awesome!

2 Likes
30

coucou

Mon ordi portable était indisponible quelque temps recuperer ce mardi 15 ( avec le mini ordi ne peut visionner)

Decouvre ce Mardi 15 nov… HTLM5 en beta
et quelque soit mes 3 Navigateurs Mozilla Opera et Safari PROBLEME de LECTURE video

Mozilla 50.0 et Opera 36.0.2130.80 aucune fluidité ca stagne stagne et au final la video ne se lance pas
Safari le son oui l’image non

comment y remedier ? aucune idée

attends et cherche patiemment toute infos :slight_smile:

31

a user from sweden created the patch for chrome already. Look her up.

32

Thank you!! :grinning::grinning:

1 Like
33

Hello,

The Learn Beta Mode is working partially: when I stop the video to click on a Chinese character, I don’t have the dictionary window showing, nor the characters highlighted.
This morning, it was working but the sound of the dictionary window didn’t work after 10 minutes using the Learn Beta Mode. I was waiting a few hours to see if it would work again.
And now, it’s the whole dictionnary window that doesn’t appear anymore.

Furthermore, I don’t know which dramas are available with the Learn Beta Mode, is it possible to have a few titles or a list of titles where you implemented this Learn Beta Mode, because I’m just clicking on any Chinese shows to see if they have the Learn Beta Mode. I don’t know where to look to find these shows.

Thank you

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34

The Viki page mentions:

My Sunshine (Director’s Cut) 何以笙箫默
The Lost Tomb 盗墓笔记
My Best Ex-Boyfriend 最佳前男友

You could find others by manually checking for chinese captions close to 100%. I don’t do that, I’m not happy we have to do it manually.

2 Likes
35

Oh I see! Thanks :grinning:
Maybe, they can make a new genre “Learn Beta Mode” or a Viki collection “Learn Beta Mode”?

Some Chinese dramas are not available yet with the Learn Beta Mode but they have raw subtitles, just thinking that they have Chinese + English but they can’t show them altogether, it’s just a pity :sob:

Edit: I found out a new website where it looks like the Learn Beta Mode but with non Asian series and movies and it’s only for learning English Fleex tv

2 Likes
36

Correction:
The Lost Tomb is going down. It won’t be available on Viki any longer.

Hm, not many dramas left to promote the Learning Mode. I wonder how many people are doing manual searches for chinese captions. Most dramas I’ve seen don’t even have 50% subtitled in chinese.

37

if you search double subtitles a norwegian vikian created a chrome patch for this last year. You just need to modify the code to set to Chinese.

The post is in discussions.

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38

Hey Folks!

I am glad to announce that Viki has updated the new Learn Mode feature to improve it based on the feedback from a lot of you. You can now use learn mode to support your language learning endeavours for both Chinese & KOREAN! The feature still includes favorites like dual subtitles and segment navigation.

In addition though this new update includes the following:

  • Learn mode is now available for any subtitle language with more than 50% subtitles for a video. This means that you can now learn Korean or Chinese even if you are not an English speaker. This opens a lot of interesting language combinations such Korean-Spanish or Chinese-French & many more!

  • The UI has now been revamped to make the text more readable & easy to understand.

For more information on using learn mode please refer to: https://support.viki.com/hc/en-us/articles/231829048-How-to-use-Learn-Mode-

Here are a few titles for which learn mode is available, so get started today!

From Korea:

Boys Over Flowers

The Legend of the Blue Sea

My Love from the Star

Moonlight Drawn by Clouds

Kill me, Heal me

From China:

My Sunshine (Director’s Cut) 何以笙箫默

The Lost Tomb 盗墓笔记

My Best Ex-Boyfriend 最佳前男友

39

Hey Folks!

I am glad to announce that Viki has updated the new Learn Mode feature to improve it based on the feedback from a lot of you. You can now use learn mode to support your language learning endeavours for both Chinese & KOREAN! The feature still includes favorites like dual subtitles and segment navigation.

In addition though this new update includes the following:

  • Learn mode is now available for any subtitle language with more than 50% subtitles for a video. This means that you can now learn Korean or Chinese even if you are not an English speaker. This opens a lot of interesting language combinations such Korean-Spanish or Chinese-French & many more!

  • The UI has now been revamped to make the text more readable & easy to understand.

For more information on using learn mode please refer to: https://support.viki.com/hc/en-us/articles/231829048-How-to-use-Learn-Mode-

Here are a few titles for which learn mode is available, so get started today!

From Korea:

Boys Over Flowers

The Legend of the Blue Sea

My Love from the Star

Moonlight Drawn by Clouds

Kill me, Heal me

From China:

My Sunshine (Director’s Cut) 何以笙箫默

The Lost Tomb 盗墓笔记

My Best Ex-Boyfriend 最佳前男友

2 Likes
40

Hi,

the Lost Tomb will be taken down soon, Viki announced.

I think the Beta button doesn’t work correctly. Sometimes, there are chinese subtitles at 50% but no active Learn Mode button. I tried Chrome and Opera.

Is there an easy way to define subtitles percentage for a show, instead of doing it manually for each episode? What I’m currently doing is filtering chinese shows by subtitles, but I get many dramas that have a dozen subtitles and that’s all.

When it works, the Learn Mode is very useful, thank you all for this feature :slight_smile:

1 Like