I am not sure if this is the right place to ask but I was wondering if there is a general agreement among editors for Korean dramas as to how to sub Korean names. For example, the name 이민호, I’ve seen it written as Lee Min Ho, Lee Minho, Lee Min-Ho, or Lee Min-ho. Also, if there is a discrepancy between the way the names are written on the Synopsis (About page) and in the Team Notes, which should the subbers follow?
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I remember reading somewhere that there once was a questionnaire held here in which Vikians voted for the spelling rules and so the new rules were born. Doesn’t seem like everyone follows them, though. Even within one episode a name is sometimes written in 2 different ways!
I think the spelling in the Synopsis comes from outside, while the spelling in the subs is decided upon within the teams.
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I’m curious; the way you write the name means something different? They are all Lee Min Ho why adding a dash make a difference in the name? When they add the dash ( - )I never write it in bc I go as we respectfully must write names in Spanish. First letter in the name must be Capital letter and we don’t use a dash for names.
Most Korean names have three characters, last name (Kim, Lee, Park, etc.) plus the given name, which usually have two characters (for example, 민호). Unlike American names, the two characters do not mean that the first one is the first name and the other is the middle name. Instead, the combination of the two is the full given name. So, the hyphen is not there to connect a first and middle name but rather to help non-Koreans with the pronunciation and to denote the two characters. In other words, as far as I know, the various ways of romanizing Korean names are simply personal choices.
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If it’s new subbers, showing them just what is necessary, like screens of the subtitle editor and shortcuts can save an editor from many bothersome events.
A subber in my language knows it’s not possible to subtitle in the bulk translation, because we can’t see or hear who talk to who for formal/casual or how to deal with feminine or masculine.
If it does happen, the editor will see it and give a warning and ask the subtitler to review his part or else will stop the relationship with the subber.
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It depends whether the subber has just been recruited or not, is he new or not?
I find it risky to recruit subbers around 2/3 or around the end because it asks more efforts than beginning a drama from scratch.
If you know the subtitler is serious and will watch the beginning or will look at the document, there is no problem.
Otherwise…
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Who is who
In addition to the pictures of actors, using a logical and general pattern will help to memorize for all dramas for subbers. They will likely use their logic to deduce it.
Formal:
Ending part (yo, nida…)
Titles (Miss, Sir, Master, Ahjussi…)
Younger people to older people**
Subordinates to superiors, chiefs**
Servants to masters, nobility, royalty**
Inferior titles to superior titles (king is above everyone)**
Younger to older relatives*
New encounters
*only in some historical dramas or old dramas: respect to elders
**Rank > Age
…
Informal: the rest and the contrary
Ending part (ya…)
No titles or Oppa
Between relatives***
Between friends, children
Familiar with each other to joke around, kiss (not always)
…
***except in some historical or old dramas to show respect to elders
There will be characters it will be more difficult to know from a few interactions and a few exceptions, yeah.
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Although using some convention to separate the given name from the surname (either with the hyphen between the two syllables of the given name, Min-ho or by joining them as one, Minho) makes it easier for the viewers and it’s the way most people actually write their names, it was decided on Viki many years ago among the volunteers that the names would be written without hyphens, because apparently subbers thought adding this hyphen was too much of an extra job (LOL!). Therefore you don’t see hyphens in subtitles nowadays.
In case of discrepancy, everyone follows the guidelines of the Chief Editor.
For a long time now, I have been waging a campaign for using RR (Revised Fomanization), for all Korean words in our subtitles, including names. You know, the official spelling of Hangul which is a state law in Korea since 2000. Because the old spelling was just something that made sense to English speakers, and not so much for the rest of the world. Like “oo” instead of “u” and “u” instead of “eo” (a very open ò). Why should we write hyung instead of the correct hyeong and noona instead of nuna?
Same for names. Yes, private individuals still have a choice on how to romanize their names in Korea, they weren’t obliged to change them, although it’s warmly encouraged.
Usually we make an exception for five very common names, which we keep in their usual anglicised form:
Kim (김, normally Gim) As of the South Korean census of 2015, there were 10,689,959 people by this name in South Korea or 21.5% of the population.
Lee (이, normally I or Yi - but Joseon kings are written Yi). the second-most-common surname in Korea. As of the South Korean census of 2015, there were 7,306,828 people by this name in South Korea or 14.7% of the population. Though the official Revised Romanization spelling of this surname is I, South Korea’s National Institute of the Korean Language noted in 2001 that one-letter surnames were quite rare in English and other foreign languages and could cause difficulties when traveling abroad. However, the NIKL still hoped to promote systemic transcriptions for use in passports, and thus recommended that people who bore this surname should spell it Yi in the Roman alphabet. However, the majority of South Koreans with this surname continue to spell it as Lee, because conditions for changing passport name is strict.
Park (normally Bak)
Kang (강, normally Gang) Sixth more popular Korean surname.
Choi ( 최, normally Choe)
More on this here:
Again, follow what your moderator/editor wishes.
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Thank you!
thats not what i meant. I mean watch wnough to know the setting and plot. i watch dramas in original language all the time first… even if not subbed. I speak and can read and write in 5 languages but translating eithout understanding the basics is likely to have you miss the cultural cues. like you can write brother but if your audiende doesnt get the context they may not know the real meaning unless you point it out. this is just sn observation and my opinion. feel free to do it your own way
There are many ways to reach the same result, if you’re fine with the way you do, then it’s totally fine.
If other people do differently and reach the same result, then it is totally fine too.
It would be weird to tell everyone to watch dramas without subs to be able to translate, but if you can do it, I see no problem.
Depending on the drama:
I think a lot of us can subtitle without needing much context.
In subtitling academies, some parts are given to translate in the middle of the drama and their results are good or not bad. There might be a few sentences where it is not correct because they needed the previous background, but for the purpose of training and the role they are in (translators), it is correct.
We test their adaptability, their logical skills and their understanding. Can they understand just this part from what they see?
From my point of view and from having done it:
It depends on the drama and the ability of someone to understand without needing much context or they are acquainted with that type of context and the cultural gap or language differences or the experience with dramas.
People capitalize and gain experience from translating the same type of dramas.
We also meet the same terms, same expressions.
It’s case by case.
If people translate but don’t understand, they will probably look on the internet, watch what happens next or what was before to understand or they will ask the team or let the editor come help.
So either they watch before to understand, either while translating they take a look, either they translate first and then look after… I am not picky with how people manage to do it, but if in the end it’s correct, that’s the most important.
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Like I said, that was my own method. I have been translating on the go in real life, not on here… so ur experiences are probably more relevant in this setting. I just started to do 1 show because I wanted to watch it with someone that couldnt keep up with the english subs.
Hey! I am bumping this topic up right now.
I just started my work as an editor and would like to get suggestions from everyone.
I had a healthy debate with my teammates and I absolutely loved talking with everyone. I’d like to know quite a few things in general (not pinpointed to anyone or to any language).
- What do you do when you don’t agree on a topic with your team?
- What if a teammate says they don’t want to change their way of working because they have always worked like that (even though, changing here means improving)?
- Is it necessary for the team to choose the decision of majority even though the minority also has a strong say for their school of thought?
- How do other languages choose their formalities of Korean language (~ibnida, ~yo)?
- What do you do to persuade the minority?
- Should someone’s work be judged on the basis of their contribution count?
- How do you deal with a newbie who has lots of questions and isn’t ready to change their way of working/learn?
- Should you make the subs more welcoming to your target audience and make the audience feel as the story of drama was revolving around them or should you be stiff and go with word - to - word translation?
P.S. These questions aren’t interrelated, so it would be great if I could get the answers from the perspective of a single question.
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Never go with word to word translation. We are not google translate. We are better and aspire to be better. I had to say goodbye to one new subber because they were using internet translations and didn’t even bother with correcting it. Their knowledge about our native language was poor. If I have to correct 90% of someone’s subs, I’d rather do them myself.
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In German I take it as a hint for formal speech. However, I wouldn’t necessarily use a formal ‘you’ for every Miss XY considering that languages such as Korean, Chinese and Japanese express formality differently compared to us in Germany. We highly rely on surnames / first names, but that doesn’t necessarily work in other languages unfortunately.
Never. During the time being an editor I met people where I have to edit every second sentence for different reasons (orthography, grammar, expressions used etc.) and they sometimes easily contributed more than I did. Well, they might be lazy, less experienced, whatever. There can be tons of reasons and you can’t judge someone by their contributions. I’m aware that we still rely on those to determine if someone is reliable in general or if someone gained experience e.g. as a moderator, but I’m not able to decide if someone has a high level in a language I don’t know for example. As a CM that’s unfortunate… but coming back to editing I have to state as well that I think I’m proficient in English. I have been using English for 20+ years now on a daily basis - but I wouldn’t be confident to edit anything in English here I guess, because it still can’t be compared to a native speaker that simply knows a lot of more expressions and idioms in the end.
It’s similar in German. Knowing the language on a native level doesn’t mean that someone is a good editor. Furthermore, there are various questions with no right or wrong answer such as “how much editing is appropriate?”, “how close should it be to the original language in regard to expressions, suffixes etc?”
According to my personal experience, exact translations don’t sound good at all. The English translations tend to add extra words though they’re not in the original, but it’s not necessarily good for the “other language” either. Moreover the viewer usually has no time/interest to think a lot about rather weird idioms - so I usually wouldn’t translate everything if there’s an appropriate saying in my language that fits.
I’m not sure if translating can be taught easily. I think it takes time, experience, lots of reading and probably some basic talent as well. I know people that like to translate and try hard to follow the ‘rules’, but they may have flaws in grammar or tend to write too informal. Generally speaking it’s rather difficult. The Viki community tends to be very friendly and giving advice can easily be misunderstood. Therefore, it seems that some people rather not give advice at all, or they consider whether it’s better to have more translators or a higher quality before the edit.
If I want to do an excellent job I’d watch the drama directly and consider every sentence carefully. In the end we edit the drama or movie for the audience, so they can watch (and enjoy!) it in their respective language without nonstop-thinking “wth was that?”
Most difficult for me is though how to address someone accordingly. In English stuff like “young master” sounds ok to me, but in German it’s really weird. Same goes for job titles. Here everything is “Mr/Ms” and not “Director, President etc.” - but I’m reluctant to simply cut it down to Mr./Ms. either. It’s a difficult decision.
I’m keen on using eo instead of u as well (and simply adjust it if I translate Korean dramas). Maybe I should be even stricter in the future - on the other hand it will take years of correction until then I suppose. 
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[quote=“shraddhasingh, post:31, topic:32146”]
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What do you do when you don’t agree on a topic with your team?
You are the editor, you are the team leader. The team has to follow your guidelines. -
What if a teammate says they don’t want to change their way of working because they have always worked like that (even though, changing here means improving)?
He won’t get another invitation to one of your projects. Simple. -
Is it necessary for the team to choose the decision of majority even though the minority also has a strong say for their school of thought?
The structure is like this: moderator, who chooses the editor and gives him/her the responsibility. Sometimes (most of the time) the moderator is the editor. Thus the person responsible has the last word. If you are in a position of responsibility, you put your name as responsible for the end result, so you should be able to explain your decisions, but other people ultimately have to follow them, even if they don’t agree. -
How do other languages choose their formalities of Korean language (~ibnida, ~yo)?
Korean has three discernible levels (seven, in reality, but let’s simplify it here) whereas most European languages have only two, casual and formal. Casual is simple, you translate it as casual (“tu” in Italian and in French, “du” in German etc.). Super-formal -mnida is also simple, you always translate it as formal in your language (“voi” in Italian, “vous” in French, “Sie” in German etc.). The big headache is the middle one, the -yo.
You sometimes have to translate it as casual (classmates, reasonably friendly office colleagues, children to parents) and sometimes as formal (people who have just met, office colleagues who are more distant acquaintances). There is no hard and fast rule, you go with context. -
What do you do to persuade the minority?
See above. You explain as best you can, you provide links to grammar sites, dictionary sites and whatever else you have. But you assume they have to follow even if they are not persuaded. -
Should someone’s work be judged on the basis of their contribution count?
Of course not. That’s nonsense! My suitcase has been to Paris a number of times, but this doesn’t mean that it knows how to speak French. -
How do you deal with a newbie who has lots of questions and isn’t ready to change their way of working/learn?
I have made a document to guide newbies, another with Subbing Guidelines, and I expect them to follow. If not, bye-bye. It’s easier and quicker to translate myself than have to edit the same stupid mistakes again and again. -
Should you make the subs more welcoming to your target audience and make the audience feel as the story of drama was revolving around them or should you be stiff and go with word - to - word translation?
What you call welcoming to your target audience can have two meanings.
- Complete naturalization, making names and customs seem as if they are those of your own country. Say the person’s name instead of ajussi, oppa etc, call mandu “ravioli” and kimtchi “sauerkraut”, make people speak as though they belonged to your country.
I don’t like this at all. This is what NF and other platforms do, for people who are not interested in other countries’ cultures. - It can also mean that the language is flowing naturally and makes the meaning readily understandable. This is something I always want. And of course I never condone stiff word-by-word translation. Especially since Korean and English have very different syntax than European languages and for the translation to make sense you have to completely change the sentence.
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Haha, that is so true. Guilty as charged! lol
This is why I typically sign up as a translation editor, not a general editor.
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I also feel reluctant while using these titles, they make the sentence sound too awkward and give a feeling as if someone from centuries ago is speaking. I also would like to use “Mr/Ms/Mrs” in my subtitles from now on.
Yes, this is one of the most confusing things I find while translating. I’ve to reconsider over and over again before settling with one form for a character and then the character keeps changing their formality with characters, so it adds more to the dilemma. Sometimes, I even miss what formality I was supposed to use and use another one instead. I have to go and recheck twice or thrice to find the mistakes I did.
I burst out of laughter reading this. 
I’ve been looking at English guidelines but didn’t find one for mine. After I gain some more experience, I guess, I’ll write one for my language too.
This is what defines “welcoming” for me too. As long as the reader can understand what is going on in the show, I guess welcoming nature of the subtitles is preserved.
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Have you checked my reply, on this thread, dated Nov. 20th, 2020, with detailed instructions on how to recognize them easily?
You have to train your ear, and try to recognize them while watching dramas. Soon you will have no problem. And yes, they can switch while in prey of emotions like anger or intense intimacy, or if they want to be dismissive and offensive, and then switch back.
How do other languages choose their formalities of Korean language (~ibnida, ~yo)?
A few weeks ago I saw a comment on Youtube about formal language in Dutch. It said there are 5 reasons to speak formally:
- Because you’re in a situation where you have to be polite.
- Because the person has a higher status than you.
- Because the person is older than you (at least 15-20 years older, not just a few years)
- Because you are strangers (and are not becoming friends, i.e. in business situations)
- Because you dislike the person. (this might be difficult to understand, but it basically means you don’t want to become close to him/her and you keep your distance by keeping your language formal.
I don’t know how formality works in your language, but maybe you could use these guidelines to decide when you use which register.
Another example about choosing which register to use:
I was a subber for Defendant. It’s a drama about a prosecutor who wakes up in prison one day and can’t remember anything that happened. There are two instances where I choose informal language even though he used formal language.
- To the prison doctor, because she believed he was innocent and tried to support him.
- To his enemy whose fault it was he was in prison. He already had nothing to fear from him anymore and his enemy already knew a lot about him, so there was no reason to be polite
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I’ll be using your guidelines effectively.
I did look at the guidelines from Nov 20, 2021 and will be using that one to identify.
Those indicators are really good Oriya. In my language too, we use formal in these situations.
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Romanization of Korean names
One important question - which you don’t specifically mention but I think is relevant - is whether to use Revised Romanisatio or not. It is a thorny question and there is no consensus on that here on Viki - as you will probably have noticed.
As you know, I’m a fervent proponent of RR. Not only it is the officially recognized one in Korea since 2000, but it makes much more sense for all other world languages…except English, of course.
You may say “ok, but for English subs, why not use the old English-centric one, since English-speaking people read them?” And it’s a legitimate question to which I have given serious thought. But then I decided against it, for the following two reasons:
ONE. It’s time English people stop being so coddled. We don’t write “saree” anymore, we write “sari”, because there must be a romanization which is the same for everybody.
TWO The people who read the English subs on Viki are not all English. I don’t have numbers, but I know for a fact that a great lot of people of other nationalities and languages prefer to watch shows in English (I’m one of them, LOL). Either because it’s not available in their language (yet, or will never be if it’s a rare one) or because the translations in their language suck.
Real-life people (not drama characters)
As for real-life names… You can see on the celebrity pages here on Viki that there are very often two or three different spellings. The Korean government, when the RR was put into place, clearly said that everybody had the right to choose how their name should be romanized. They were encouraged to change their passports etc. to the new style but it wasn’t compulsory. And it seems that almost no Lee changed to I, no Kim changed to Gim and no Park changed to Bak. That’s why, even when we use RR in subtitles, we make an exception for Lee, Park, Kim, Kang and Choi. People everywhere are too used to reading it like this. And we also usually keep the well-known romanization of real-life celebrities. For instance in “Bossam”, the beginning credits have the female lead as Yoori, not Yu Ri, because everyone knows her like that. It’s a compromise, I know, but I suppose that in the first years we have to compromise until people get used to the “new” style.
Romanization of other terms
Of course other Korean words also have to be romanized. Geographical names, food etc. It usually goes without problems. With the exception of well-known family appellatives.
When I am Chief Editor, I also write hyeong and nuna, to be consistent with the RR of everything else, but if I’m only General Editor and the CE doesn’t agree, I have to comply with hyung and noona.
First name form
Now, your question of the first name form: Minho, Min Ho, Min-Ho or Min-ho?
There is a consensus on that, it’s usually Min Ho. Veteran contributor cgwm808 once made a poll among subbers and they thought the hyphen added to their work, so they opted for no hyphen. That was a long time before I came to Viki, but I’ve heard it from her.
Synopsis or Team Notes spelling?
We editors have no longer access and editing power on the synopsis in the About page. Which is unfortunate, because it sometimes states things that are plain wrong! Maybe the drama took a different turn than what was initially planning, or the person who wrote it hasn’t seen it or whatever. Very upsetting…
The only thing we have control on are the subs. So yes, the Team Notes are to be followed.
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