I’m hoping the technical department can work it out so the subbers in the team can’t edit another subber’s work/subtitles. I was never an ‘‘abuser’’ just a newbie that tried to edit another subber’s work, and when I pressed the “SAVE” button, my edit didn’t go through, and I read a message that said: Only Editors can edit subtitles. I learned from that not to try to make edits anymore, and instead informed the moderator to fix what I felt was a wrong translation. This happened back in 2013. I honestly can’t understand why subbers now can touch/edit the work of another subber when in the past that wasn’t possible.
EDITING SIMPLY BASED ON PERSONAL PREFERENCE
I agree on this one with you, and I hope it stops because some of these ‘‘preference’’ are incorrectly done. Like when a moderator instructed a subber to add the period inside the bracket [the sky is blue.] when [the period always go outside the bracket]. I see it all over now in the subtitles, and it annoys me so much.
choitrio @ajumma2, I agree with you that sometimes being fluent in Korean can be a handicap as an English editor. This is one of the reasons why I never volunteer to work as a TE.
I personally think that you can be a great TE because you will be able to balance the knowledge you have in both language, and you will do a great job when editing the subtitles.
When you have the time, and if you want to (I understand if you don’t want to do so; so don’t worry)
But I am so dying of curiosity to know; why you think being fluent in Korean can be a handicap as an English Editor.
You see, in my mind if I was fluent enough in Korean, I always thought I could be a great English Editor. But to me, just being proficient enough in the English language is not enough to edit a sentence/subtitle (since I never know if the translation in Korean was done correctly).
I would appreciate if you could give us some example because I love learning things from (you) ppl. I feel are very knowledgeable on the subject.
This is a formatting rule, not an English rule. Some teams prefer to keep subs formal and in lowercase while others prefer to show that a person is shouting using uppercase letters. I think they do that for the benefit of deaf viewers… (is he just surprised or is he yelling his head off? that kind of thing) My trainer said we shouldn’t use it so I have never done it myself, but some CMs might want it.
But if the CM goes with the uppercase, it should be uniform and used throughout the entire length of the drama
All caps should never be used in translation, unless they are abbreviations.
And actually, the exclamation mark is too often used on Viki. It should only be used if someone raises their voice. I’ve seen some translations where most of the sentences end in exclamation marks and it’s not an action scene, nobody’s arguing or calling anyone. They were all just talking. Perhaps the subbers/editors were excited
I found this today, and was shocked because it has answered some of my questions. I want to share this here from @irmar that she posted back in 2019.
1)… a major skill to develop is to understand Korean sentence structure. Why? Because then you will be able to understand some sentences that apparently make no sense. You will know it’s literal translation, you will go back to the Korean style of saying things (no, you don’t need to actually learn the language!) and understand the meaning, so that you know how to change it. Become used to finding sentences with the verb at the very end and develop strategies to deal with them.
Inverting them is the simplest solution but it doesn’t work all the time, because sometimes you have to match the surprise factor and the actors’ reactions.
Matching the style to the speaker and situation. Learning to recognize formality levels (again, you don’t need to learn Korean for that - and I’m only mentioning Korean because that’s what I have experience in)
Not sure if this is a good example but I came across a dilemma today.
The phrase that can be deceiving, “I want to hit on you” or any context that contains, “hitting on” someone. It sounds normal in English because it’s sort of slang. My concern is, how does it translate in OL. Like, would there be a confusion with the physical “hitting on” someone or does it mean the same thing as the English phrase.
I try to change it to, “I want to court you” or “I’m courting him/her” since the meaning is more direct, less confusing.
Am I thinking too much? I try to keep OL in mind when I do TE.
I suppose what choice words you decide depends on the time period of the drama. “Courting” someone is an older terminology that could still exist in certain circumstances, but guessing from the phrase “hit on you,” I’m thinking it’s more modern. Perhaps the word date/dating might be more appropriate in this situation.
This is where the person doing the subbing for OL needs to have enough knowledge of English in order to translate it to the OL and have it make sense. You are so considerate as a TE and I see that you not only care about your project but those who will use them later as well.
When translating from one language to the next there’s always a chance the context gets lost. As a viewer myself, when I watch dramas that have excellent translations it makes a good experience in watching. So, applying this perception when I sub/TE, I try to choose my phrases carefully for OL so that they can translate without losing the original meaning. This ensures all viewers have a pleasant time watching. I would hate for viewers of OL to only get a piece of translation and be left out from the whole context.
As @aziana01_426 said, it always depends on the proficiency the subbers has in English.
Her someone might get hit, if translated wrongly and here
someone might end up before court in a trial.
Mistakes can happen everywhere. When I’m not sure if a phrase might be a proverb or something, I ask others and try to look it up online, but not everyone goes to that extent, and they just translate what thy think it might mean.
Also, with words that have a different meaning in British English and American English, it can happen that the subber chooses the wrong translation. I’ve seen that kind of mistake recently, now there is a reminder included in my notes for the team, that on Viki we use manly American English.
I’m a native English speaker and I don’t like this phrase all that much. In all honesty, I have never ever heard anyone say it to someone nor have I heard anyone say it when talking about someone they like. To my ears, it has a colloquial and unsophisticated ring to it. I first encountered this phrase in subtitles.
When I’m dealing with things like this, I clearly establish the concept that’s trying to be conveyed. In this case, the ideas I hear behind the phrase are something like those below…
I’d like you to get to know me better and maybe romance will grow.
I want to make advances toward you with the idea of romance growing.
Now they’re way too wordy for most subs. So, once I have the notion clearly in mind, I try shortening it. I do this in Word because being able to see the phrases and their changes as I play with them, helps me.
So some ideas that are springing to mind as I type are…
I’d like the chance to get to know you better.
I’d like to get to know you better. May I?
May I pursue you and get to know you better?
I’m going to do what I can so you’ll see me as boyfriend material.
Can you give me a chance to show you I’m boyfriend material?
I want to show you that I’m boyfriend material.
Let me show you I’m boyfriend material.
May I romantically pursue you?
I’d like us to become more than friends.
I’ll show you that I can be more than you think I am.
I want to show you my romantic side.
I want to get to know you more.
May I be romantic sometimes?
…etc.
Whether or not any of the above are appropriate will totally depend on the context. It might even turn out that “I want to hit on you” is the best choice for the context.
In English-editor training, I learned to avoid slang and anything else that might lead to confusion.
As Dutch subber/moderator, I either already know what it means or I look it up to make sure my translation is correct, but I’ve seen lots of people translating very literally so I think the clearer the English subs are, the better.
As for “hitting on,” in Dutch we call it “versieren,” which literally means “to decorate.”
“Hit on you” is slang. I would probably change it to “I want to flirt with you” - because “hitting on” usually isn’t used when the person has serious intentions/wants to have a serious relationship. “Court” is fine, but it sounds pretty old-fashioned and I expect the person doing to the courting to be… courteous. “Hitting on” a person gives me a very crass, careless feeling. It conjures up images of boys throwing pickup lines and “checking out” women, or a woman sliding next to a guy at a bar and flirting with him.
I don’t know why anyone would actually say they want to hit on someone to their face, but there are all sorts of people in the world LOL. So I think “flirt” would be a good alternative. @manganese’s “boyfriend material” sentences are also good alternatives to me… but the other sentences all sound too polite and nice. To me, “hitting on” someone does not carry the “I want to get to know you as a person” connotation. It’s more of a fling or a conquest.
@manganese Thank you so much! Your examples are very helpful. I shall reference some in the future. I also didn’t like how, “I want to hit on you” sounded. It doesn’t fit the sincerity of the message when the character is being sweet & kind.
@mirjam_465 I always wonder how some phrases will come across for OL. Very interesting that, “hitting on” translates to, “to decorate.” I’ll be keeping in mind to edit that phrase more often unless the context really calls for it
@vivi_1485 Agree with you. The phrase “hitting on” someone just sound so insincere. When I’m translating/editing, I know the character is conveying a sincere confession and that phrase just doesn’t fit sometimes.
Thank you all! I’m glad I was able to bring this up because it always bothered me. Now with more insight, I’ll have better references for smoother translations.
While I agree that it is best to minimize the use of slangs, I realize that certain slangs sometimes are the best interpretation of particular scene. A good subber/TE understands the origin language well enough to recognize the slangs and their meaning and is equally fluent in the target language to know the appropriate alternatives. Dutch translation of “hitting on” shows that incorrect/literal translation can result in a confusing or funny subtitle mistake. However, these innocent mistakes can sometimes change the entire mood of a particular scene. Not too long ago, a viewer made a post in the Community Discussion complaining about a translation mistake in a Korean BL drama. The phrase was 기분이 더러워 which had been translated as “I feel dirty.” (literal translation) when the appropriate translation for the scene was “I feel shitty.” While I know that it was an innocent mistake, I understood why the viewer was so upset.
This is very interesting. From the point of view of a GE who only speaks English. “I feel shitty” and “I feel dirty” could mean similar things or they could be quite different things. It would totally depend on the context provided by the scene.
For example:
If the scene involved a mood, then to say… “I’m in a shitty mood right now” or “I’m in a dirty mood right now” means the same thing to me because in Australia, “shitty” and “dirty” are colloquial synonyms for “foul”.
If, however, the context is one relating to wellbeing (such as having a headache or stomach ache, etc.), then “I feel shitty because my stomach hurts so much” is the only phrase that works. “I feel dirty because my stomach hurts so much” doesn’t make sense. In a wellbeing context, “shitty” can be descriptive of feeling ill, but “dirty” does not have this ability.
Should the context involve a state of cleanliness, “shitty” and “dirty” could both be used but their meanings would probably be a little different. The scene… a character has been playing football in the rain and is covered from head to toe in mud. If the character said either “I feel shitty and need a shower urgently” or “I feel dirty and need a shower urgently”, both work, but to me there’s a slight difference in meaning. “I feel shitty” is more a statement of how being covered in mud affects mental outlook whereas “I feel dirty” is a comment on physical appearance.
Given the above, it’s highly likely that if I came across “I feel dirty” in subs, and it’s clearly used with slang in mind, I’d check Google because English slang is often country-specific and can be confusing for English speakers from other countries. I’d then consult the TE for help with wording for the sub if it is clear that the present wording (a) could cause confusion or (b) poorly interprets the context.
Another example I came across yesterday, the pre-sub trans was: “it was so hard, I almost died!” The actual dialogue was, “it was so hard, the vein in my eyes almost popped!” (It’s a common Thai expression to emphasize how difficult something is)
I contemplated whether or not to change the trans because they really are two different phrases. It made me think, well if the veins in your eyes popped surely one would die, right? I ended up changing it to the literal trans because the actions of the character indicated he was pointing at his eyes. It made more sense in that context.
That’s a really good pick up! I always try to match action with an appropriate word in the subs. For example, if a character shakes their head, then the sub probably needs a negative word like no, never, not, nothing. On a similar train of thought, if a character points to something that that they’re not holding, or it’s not on them, then maybe “there” is needed.
If you don’t know the source language, you should not be editing to what you think might be appropriate.
In Korean the response of yes or no when a question is stated in the negative is very different from how yes and no are used in English.
Min Ho is asked “Didn’t you go to school yesterday?” when he, in fact, went to school. If Min Ho says “Yes” , it is an affirmation of "I did not go to school yesterday. So, in Korean, he should say “No” because it is a negation of the statement “I did not go to school yesterday.” The experienced subber will write, to avoid confusion, “I did go” but the editor who doesn’t know Korean, hearing the “No” will edit to “I didn’t go.” https://medium.com/story-of-eggbun-education/yes-i-cant-answering-negative-questions-in-korean-584936686b45#:~:text=In%20other%20words%2C%20if%20the,is%20the%20opposite%20of%20English.
The edit will be a classic example of an unnecessary edit which made a correct subtitle wrong.
I ended up changing it to the literal trans because the actions of the character indicated he was pointing at his eyes. It made more sense in that context.