Where is the "no breaks for same speaker" guideline from last March?

worthyromance · June 3, 2020, 2:38pm

American English is “esthetics” which makes sense phonetically /esˈTHediks/ as no one pronounces the “a.” I understand the British spelling . I tend to choose the correct spelling which will make sense to the majority of people.

@bozoli I use large font for ease of reading fan collections and for casting onto the TV. Electronic glare is hard enough on my eyes that I don’t want further difficulties with eye strain. I read the finished product on subtitle editor as it is easier to distinguish between the comma and a period with larger print.

Many subtitlers feel that it’s esthetic to place a break between sentences on a segment. This causes confusion for both a viewer and an editor. Here are some examples:

There are two males with similar voices in a segment. Neither of their mouths are visible, which is innovative for camera angles, but not for understanding subtitles. Did the break imply multiple speakers and the translator was sloppy, omitting the dashes? I’ve had to go over such segments up to five times. Do I have to consult the TE for all such unnecessary and ambiguous breaks?
A male is finishing speaking at the same time that a female starts speaking. Is one sentence what he says and the other sentence what she said? A speaker can change topic in the next sentence so it’s not always easy to distinguish. I do not fault the segmenter who did the best possible job in such a situation.
A person is talking on the phone. There is a medium sentence followed by a short sentence simply saying “Okay.” The intonation for “Okay” is ambiguous. Was the “Okay” an implied question from the visible speaker and requires a question mark? Was the “Okay” from the person on the other line and requires italics?

I tried to give simple, clear examples. Now imagine a viewer such as my hubby who has no ear for accents. I’ve explained to him that two lines is normally standard for multiple speakers. He struggles to keep up with reading subs, let alone watch the actors’ mouths. He asks me what just happened. I rewind it for him and press pause so he can look at their mouths, if their mouths are visible. He can’t distinguish between their voices. Suppose he was hearing impaired like two people I know.

I’ve been watching Asian dramas for eighteen years. My hubby just started a year ago. What is it like for other new viewers? I’ve read comments that they struggle to watch and read subs at the same time. Many subtitles with multiple speakers on old dramas have only one dash or no dash at all. So I do a double take with the many segments containing unnecessary breaks. I’m an old hand at reading subs, and I’m doing a double take.

We need consistency and predictability in subtitles for the sake of attracting an ever-expanding viewership.

People who understand the origin language don’t struggle with the chaos as regular English viewers do. I understand the confusion caused by unnecessary breaks as a general English editor. My task is to make English subs as clear as possible. Unnecessary breaks decrease my efficiency to edit in a timely, proficient manner. Evidence that it was an old problem is often seen in older dramas. Some people won’t even watch the older dramas, but they don’t realize what wonderful classics they’re missing.

What looks pleasing to one person is not pleasing to another person. Thus unnecessary breaks are a very personalized, subjective issue. A translator feels one way today and another way tomorrow. Do we subtitle by our feelings? If I edited by my feelings, there would be an uproar that we need to keep close to the original translation meaning yet be understood clearly by English viewers. Do we tell other language moderators that it’s okay to translate by their feelings?

We need to do what we instinctively know to be correct. Yes, we listen to our feelings, but we cannot be controlled by them, especially in writing subtitles which are read by 40 million monthly viewers worldwide. I believe structure breaks cannot be left to people’s feelings or their sense of esthetics/aesthetics.

bozoli · June 3, 2020, 3:58pm

Oh, no, I think you misunderstood. I had no intention of correcting you in any way. My computer used autocorrect for the word and the quotation marks referred to… well, I’m not certain anymore

With regards to standardisation, I think that must be language-dependent. As I said, I’m personally guided by Croatian televisions’ preferences. We grow up reading subtitles, so inherently what you see on the TV is what you find most pleasing.

It’s another thing when you grew up in the US, for example, and have watched minimum amount of subtitled shows growing up. Of course that then even the relatively easy subs are difficult to read while watching the show at the same time. I would like to say practice makes perfect, but Chinese subs on Viki tend to be freakishly long and evilly short, to the point that I had to develop a habit of pausing, reading, resuming, cycle repeat. Because I can’t read any faster than I normally do. I also understand that is just the nature of Chinese language, to be dense in meaning.

Your issue might not be the standardisation of breaks per se, but rather the hierarchy in the team and meddling into each others spheres of work. Our policy of working in the team is that the Moderator (in your case Chief Editor) is the ultimate quality control. Hence, this person also sets the particular rules and general standards. Naturally, within the scope of Viki’s guidelines. I have formatted subs in ways which are not natural to me, but it was the Moderator on the project who made the rules and I figured making concessions is a part of teamwork.

A Channel Manager is a channel manager. As you can see here:

…a CM has no duties nor authority over the quality of English language, asides from choosing the correct people for the English team and making sure things run smoothly within the team.

worthyromance · June 3, 2020, 4:26pm

Thank you for the link to the job description of a CM.

making sure the Community Guidelines are followed at all times.
To help make final decisions about discrepancies within the team.
You may create individual Channel rules, but those rules may not conflict with the Viki Terms of Use, Privacy Policy or Community Guidelines.
Actively participate in managing the channel.
The major decision makers who make sure the channel is being run smoothly.

Channel Team Names may not contain story spoiler information. Wow, I see that all the time!

“Being run smoothly” does not correlate with allowing chaos and confusion, in my opinion. If a Chief Editor promotes haphazard breaks, I believe the CM is the major decision maker.

Selecting moderators for your assigned channel.
Selecting editors for your assigned channel.
To help make final decisions about discrepancies within the team.

Most CMs are way too kind to “fire” an editor or moderator, though inactivity is reasonable grounds for removal. Thus we need to work together as teams, but abiding within clear guidelines, not those based on our feelings.