True, not to mention the responsibility…
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Thank you for sharing your perspective. 
I actually agree with you. As a viewer, I also prefer shorter subtitles because they are much easier to read, especially on a phone or when watching late at night.
The challenge I experience is slightly different because I translate into Catalan. Sometimes, what is a very short expression in English naturally becomes much longer in Catalan. Even a simple word like “my” often needs to become el meu, la meva, els meus or les meves, depending on the context. That is already several extra characters before the sentence has really started.
So I completely understand why shorter subtitles improve the viewing experience. At the same time, there are moments where fitting a natural translation into the character limit becomes quite challenging without losing small nuances of the dialogue.
It’s definitely a balance, and I think we’re all trying to find the best way to make subtitles both comfortable to read and faithful to the original story.
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Exactly. 
As a French subber first, then editor, and later moderator, I had to adapt.
At first, it was crazy challenging, especially on historical dramas, but I guess we’ve all eventually reached a certain balance. 
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These are also things the segmenters have to consider. If they need to combine 2 segments and the combined subtitles fit in all presub languages except for 1, the combining cannot take place. Subbers and editors can still be a bit creative and say things in a different way, but the segmenters are not supposed to change the subtitles so they can’t shorten them that way.
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I’m not defending Viki by any means of the imagination, but speaking as someone who has been here when Viikii (the original Viki) was developed… literally.
There were so many problems with getting TEs for the main sub languages on Viikii then, and Viki today: Korean, Chinese, Thai, Japanese. Chinese wasn’t too bad, as we had and still do have many fluent Chinese speakers on Viki.
Viikii changed hands several times and eventually became Viki.
The main complaints from viewers were always… “When is the next episode going to be subbed? Why are they so slow? Why is this language being subbed faster than that language?” etc… Viki is a volunteer-based organization, so of course, our translators could only sub when they had time. As time went on, we slowly started competing with a now-defunct drama website. When that happened, Viki started becoming more demanding, and it lost its “original” flavor. Translators started becoming stressed and less likely to show up. OLs complained more and more for faster work. TEs and GEs could only go as fast as the translators; sometimes, the TEs had to fill in and translate the leftovers, which slowly stressed them out… Looking back, it became a hot mess. Then Viki hired “translators” to help out the volunteers to keep up with demand. But it still wasn’t good enough.
So Viki took over and added AI-generated work for the popular languages. Now, only editing teams remain. Some translators crossed over into TEs to keep their Gold statuses. We are still volunteer-based, and now sometimes editing takes time as the TEs and GEs still have other lives and can’t always come when the QC is done from the CS. But some viewers are happy with this “new Viki”.
And this is where we are today…
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Oh yeah, someone screenshotted its German version for our “funny subtitles” section 
in another historical drama they used the English word “Comeback” in the German AI subtitles which is basically mainly used for artists making a comeback… so it’s rather funny 
It might get a real CM after it fully released. So this or next week approx.
In the end, they are competing with other streaming companies who do the same. Along with lately introduced AI dubs. I can understand they don’t want to miss out, but I don’t really understand how this makes segmenting, English editing in general or other languages’ quality assurance obsolete. Surely, the shows translated and segmented by Viki employees (Korean, Japanese) are better than those provided from outside, but there can still be some issues ranging from forgotten OSTs to other stuff. If they worry about presubs being lost they can rethink segmenting rules, but abandoning them doesn’t seem necessary to me given all the infrastructure is there already.
What bugs me about the “perhaps after release distribution” is a lack of certainty paired with all the waiting for a possible project. As the amount of projects remains important you’d rather just wait for it instead of accepting other projects, but you may just wait for a long time resulting in nothing at all. It’s quite frustrating.
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I was only explaining why Viki is doing what they are doing and how they got there. Nothing more.
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And what would that look like? Back to adjust-only? No, thank you! And it’s not necessary either. Not only do the segging teams save the subs beforehand, reference subs are back, as well, be it uncopiable. Also, Viki could delete the volunteer subs/segments any moment and replace them with the original presubs again if they feel they need to. So what’s the worry anyway?
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They probably regard any intervention from their side as a hassle. Likely, they will not bother and rather abandon a whole concept that worked for years. However, as Viki’s behavior is never clear, it’s all assumptions being made. I simply hope for segmenters not to be abandoned.
I was only commenting on it. Nothing more. I wasn’t criticizing you and don’t think it’s necessary to explain for that reason.
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It’s sad to see how viki has become now but let’s face reality. AI has become an important part of technology that people who prefer NOT to use them are less. I, Myself, am against unethical use of AI and find AI translations rather lacking while I segment. It’s also quite hard to keep track of the languages for each series and make sure no subtitle is lost while adjusting and combining. a tedious task if you’ll ask me. I’m rather new to VCC (been almost 1+ year) but have been seeing how demanding segmenters are now that more series are released with AI subtitles. I can see how unsatisfied and disappointed subtitlers are due to faulty and context-less AI subtitles. But, things have changed and viki has transformed into a streaming + paid site losing it’s indigenous value. so, I think we contributors must also adapt to the changes and make our part of the responsibility right. I think that the community is a marvelous place with determined people. adapting to changes and making the best out of what’s given to us is in most of our volunteer’s hearts and minds. I’m honestly not worried about AI taking over, It’ll never overpower the quality that top contributors can offer. editing has now become a crucial part of a subtitling team and I hope subtitlers can find quality people to help them to get how things are done. I hope people here don’t lose hope and tackle challenges as a team. we’re a really inclusive and competent community after all.
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I am also hoping for all volunteers not to be abandoned. Viki has been eliminating the Segmenting and English Language Teams for some of the Korean dramas in the past few months.
The first was Yumi’s Cells. Now, Filing for Love does not seem to have a Segmenting Team nor an English Language team. It is very concerning.
Thank you for your words of support for English Language Editing Teams and Segmenting Teams. It means a lot to me as an English General Editor. It is good to have confirmation that many volunteers rely on the English Edited subs to help them in their work. This is why it saddens me when I see some Edited English subs where volunteers didn’t care very much about slang or modern terms n historical dramas, or clarity, flow, slang/idioms, cultural nuance in other dramas because it can affect volunteers working in other languages. I fear that Viki is slowly moving toward eliminating the English Language teams, and even Segmenting Teams. I agree that we must preserve the human review process. This is why I don’t understand why Viki is delaying or even sometimes eliminating access by the volunteers to shows. The AI is there for those that need to watch immediately. How does it harm Viki to allow volunteers access to correct the mistakes, improve the experience for viewers?
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Hi dear,
Of course, we all rely on editing and segmenters teams with all these beautiful dramas.
I might not wait for my language’s subtitles once in a while when I’m really impatient to watch a recent channel, but most times, I make sure to wait for a Channel Manager to be appointed, and for the segmenting and English editing to be done.
Otherwise, I know I will miss many cultural points, language nuances, all on screen texts, and even the beautiful OSTs…
So, we really need these teams. 
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Thanks for your kind words regarding English Editing Teams and Segmenting Teams. I fear that we are slowly being pushed out of Viki permanently. It will be a loss to viewers and it will also be a loss to OL teams because they will no longer have a group to “take the first pass” at the English language subs that are the base for everything. The OL Teams will no longer have someone to go through and adjust timing, add segments for text, fix formatting, grammar, syntax, fix translation errors, get rid of slang, clarify and help with flow, add OST, or add cultural nuance. The OL Teams will have to do all of that themselves. Your jobs will become more difficult.
I agree with you that English Editing and Segmenting Teams are necessary to provide the best viewing experience. I wish Viki felt the same way, but I am not sure that they do. It is all part of the larger issue of Viki seeming to no longer value all volunteers.
I am sad for English language viewers because without English Teams and Segmenting Teams, there is no second chance to improve the viewing experience through volunteer efforts. They will just have to live with whatever is originally posted. At least OL viewers still have a chance for an improved viewing experience as the OL Teams are still viable.
The other issue I see is for General English Editors like me. I have enjoyed my time as a General Editor and I’m proud of the contributions GEs make toward providing the best viewing experience for viewers as well as helping OLs, but unfortunately, not everyone in the English Editing community agrees about the value of GEs. I have worked with many great Chief Editors and Channel Managers, but unfortunately, there are still CEs and CMs who refuse to include GEs on their teams. It makes me sad that GEs often can’t contribute not only due to Viki decisions, but also because some people in our own volunteer community say they don’t see our value and refuse to include GEs on the teams.
I still hope that Viki will continue to support all volunteers, but I do fear the worst for English Editing and Segmenting Teams. We shall see…
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The short answer to your question is yes, if there is no volunteer team with a Channel Manager, then the drama “The First Jasmine” can’t be translated into Finnish. Currently, if Vikisub is the Channel Manager, then no volunteers can work on the projects. As others have said, usually after all episodes have posted, Viki will choose a Volunteer CM to replace Vikisub and then volunteers can apply to work on the drama. However, there have been increasing delays with that happening. That said, this current model could change in future. Perhaps in future, Vikisub will remain the CM and also allow other languages to work on the dramas. Or it could be that in future, the volunteers will all go away and V will completely rely on AI subs. We just do not know. But for now, there must be a Volunteer CM in order for volunteers to work on the dramas.
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Of course. That’s how I feel. 
At the same time, last year, we had news about the creation of the NSSA EAA in order to train new GEs, TEs and CEs. Many volunteers took the time to take quite a long and challenging entry test in order to have the opportunity to start training with nice and experienced senseis. They had been waited for months for their results. (You don’t wanna know how long I took to do all exercices and then sum up, as we had a limited number of characters - not 100, fortunately, lol 
)
These new “Academies” were said to be created because there weren’t enough English editors, if I’m not mistaken.
However, after being on the waiting list for so long (a few months), there were an anouncement saying GEs and CEs Academies would not open, after all. So, only the TEs’ one (for Chinese language, I think) started. But, actually, if we have a look at the NSSA page, we can’t even access this. So, maybe it was only a one time thing. But maybe I didn’t search on the right page.
Anyway, from what I know, even if the possible future students spent a lot of time and energy on these entry test, they received no feedback.
I’m just reminding this topic because if there weren’t enough editors back then for the workload on Viki, there are sure still not enough now, as these possible students never got trained, appart from a few TEs, I guess, and maybe some GEs who got accepted and contacted before the decision was taken, and I’m glad for them.
So, I’m sure we have very good and nice editors on Viki. But they all have a life outside Viki too.
I guess you know what I mean.
But maybe one day new editors will be lucky enough to be trained too, NSSA or not. 
I really enjoyed NSSA training, both subbing, editing, and segging, but if this EEA GE/TE training never opens, actually, I think I might contact some English editor to know if they’re willing to train me. 
But I understand your point. GEs and TEs are important parts of the editing teams.
If the CEs do all the work by themselves, it seems more complicated.
The three positions are complementary to me.
But that’s my opinion. 
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The academy closed down before it was ever opened so no one got training. The TE academy was for Chinese and Japanese. The Chinese one was ready for business. They allegedly wouldn’t close, but I don’t know what happened to them. I think in the end, everything was closed. Maybe @xylune knows.
Have you ever considered becoming a CE yourself? That way, you can at least keep your role as long as Viki still tolerates English editors. Yes, I know; it’s sad that I use the word “tolerate” here…
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Well, we know absolutely nothing, right.
So, what do I know? Everything is blur.
I just think it’s a shame.
Many volunteers were willing to make the efforts to learn new skills and to help in a new way.
They put time and energy into this huge entry test.
It really didn’t look like a kindergarten game, but I guess you know that.
I understand that they couldn’t take just anybody claiming they “spoke, read, and wrote English very well”, and that we had to proove a certain level, as the senseis didn’t have time to waste…
But all that was ruined, and things were just kind of “hidden under the carpet”, if I may say.
Anyway, it’s done now, so I guess we can say “cut” (end of story). 
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As the lead coordinator of the EEA project, I have already explained why the project was discontinued. I don’t understand why people are still asking all sorts of rhetorical questions about why the EEA no longer exists.
I’ll say it again, and I hope it’s clear this time: Viki ceased all collaboration and communication, even though they initially showed a great deal of interest. We simply never received any response. And this project could not have been carried out without their support. Furthermore, the NSSA hasn’t had any direct contact with Viki’s staff for quite some time now; we, too, are forced to use the Help Center.
As for the Chinese TE, its team decided to discontinue the program after analyzing the situation very carefully.
We can probably all see Viki’s reason for this abrupt change, given that they’ve begun to gradually remove the need for English editors and segging volunteers.
There is no question here today.
I never really had any explanation about that back then, though.
But nevermind.
Now I have, about a year later, lol.
Thank you so much.
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