Are you being honest in your advice to channel managers about moderators and translators in your language?!

Contributing Subtitling
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It’s an old issue and there is no clear-cut solution.

Yes, if you have a group of people translating to one particular language, by all means create a chat group and discuss the translation, the grammar, vocabulary etc. But the competition between translators of one language can be harsh and people are not very willing to admit their mistakes.

Second, if you see something that could have come from Google translate, first check it by copy-pasting English sub into GT and then clicking translate to your language. If the outcome for 10 different subs is the same as you see it on the screen, then you know they have used it. We call the people using GT as the Evil Googlators and you need to report them to Viki, because GT is banned on Viki.

Third, Moderators are the first quality control of their language. they need to check the translation and consistency of every sub in their project. It’s a completely different story if you suspect Moderators are also bad at translating. CMs, especially of the on-air shows are waaay to busy to check the quality of translation for every language in their project. That’s why we have a function of Other language moderator on the project. They’re supposed to whip bad Mods into shape.

Fourth, a problem arises when you ask who is going to evaluate someone’s translation. When I first arrived at Viki I was surprised at the low quality of translation to my language on some of the shows. Being green and new, it never even crossed my mind to tell the CM of that project that the translation was bull****. There is a hierarchy at Viki which stops this community from evolving, whether we want to admit it or not.

What I did instead was to take over one of the projects I really loved and tried to correct the subs. But the truth is, it SUCH TORTURE to do that! It’s so cruel to see your language butchered with every single subs, with every single sentence and with every single phrase.

Therefore, I don’t see a systematic solution coming from our community itself. One could be developed and imposed by Viki. However, I don’t think that’s ever been on their list of priorities.

If you see bad translations, you could try to say that directly to the person doing it, but chances are you’re going to get into a conflict which will result mostly in frustration, rather than quality improvement. You could also try to send a message to the CM. If you come across a really good one, who cares about these things as much as you, things might actually get resolved.

Sorry for the rant. You asked about something I am also very passionate about, so there it is…

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thank you for your response, This is because I now witness the vision of many who are not accurate, especially in my native language, in some programs here as Moderators. So I asked what if I could communicate not because I underestimate the efforts of others, on the contrary, most of them are my friends.I love them the best as myself so I ask the team managers to correspond with the translators and the best experience for each language they know or question their Moderators of the projects they worked with them. I almost know the level of every Arabic translator here and his mistakes so I can correct them directly as a Moderator for any team in my project, but if I worked with one of these Moderators Dear I can not correct them or one of the translators experience because they are higher than us in this situation and can change at any time so be without benefit :rolling_eyes: Just this.

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Thank you, dear, I am very pleased to see your enthusiasm like me and I try as much as possible to tell them about their mistakes, especially those who worked with me. But as you told me, the some do not recognize it and believe that I am being offended, leading to endless conflict and controversy, but on the contrary my intentions are quite good. I hope that translations are at a better level and our efforts are not wasted.:blossom:

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We often have in the chats for our dramas serious conversatiosn of which word we should use for specific english translations. Historical dramas are not everyones love and when we have newbies we controll their parts asap and tell them what they should do better in the part.

In the dramas which are hyped you must look also that not many words stay in english. Often users let the english word there, because they don´t know a german word therefore and are afaraid/ ashamed (?) to ask us for help.

It´s not always easy, but I / we try our best.
Also German grammer is not that easy and the time terms are… ;__;

There were also people which translated in there dilalect or put it simply in SMS speech and that´s absolutly no go.
Also we help newbies and they can ask us anything they want if they need help. If they do so is another thing, many don’t want to ask. But hey nobody is perfect and you are right. You should know your own language.

I also saw good and very bad english PMs that were written to me. And even if my school english, I am out of school nearly 20 years, isn´t that good I hope everyone understands what I write them and i´ll give my best in learning new words and so on.

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@teufelchen_netty_266 Thank you dear for your nice response, and I agree with you every word you said about the grammer of languages, our language is difficult as well as the speakers are based on the movements more than the letters are changing the meaning of words literally :heart_eyes:

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VIKI has lots of shows and not an endless number of volunteers, so I think there will bei always some kind of compromise.

Another aspect is that even when something is translated correctly it is not always fun to read, especially not in German. When you want proper German sentences you usually have many lines, even more than in English so one may be watching a drama like a diashow because of always pausing to read what is written on the screen.

The challenge then is to keep the core meaning of a scene/dialogue but transfer it into another language in a way that is understandable and enjoyable while watching. For that you need to think much more about certain words and phrases and it takes much more time than “simply” translating something from one language to another.

For that there would be probably much more editors needed than usually are available.

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The challenge is to slowly find some people whose judgment you can trust, and then ask their opinion privately about volunteers of the same language.
For instance, I am a CM, someone writes to me asking to be Portuguese or Chinese or Arabic mod. I don’t know Portuguese/Chinese/Arabic, so how to decide whether to accept or refuse them?
Should we go by number of projects? Hell, no! I know for sure that, on the contrary, taking too many at the same time means they’re doing a sloppy job at all of them. There is one particular language where only one person takes ALL the shows. It’s incredible. And I’ve been told that she never finishes them. No surprise.
In my years here at Viki, I have come to know some people as friendly reliable, hard-working and generally trust-worthy. BUT does this mean they know the language well and are good in translating? Should I assume they are good and ask them on my team? Maybe someone is a jerk but is a much better translator or editor. Yes, but if I cannot be sure anyway, why not take the person who is polite, efficient and hard-working?

If you know whose opinion to ask, it’s easier. But how many people are completely unbiased, outside the petty clique wars that rage here on Viki? Maybe they will say some mean things about someone only out of spite because they belong to a different clique.

I don’t belong to any clique, I’m independent, and some people have understood that, consider me reliable, and have asked my opinion about Greek and Italian subbers and moderators. I make it a point of being very truthful in saying my opinion. No beating around the bush. If the person trusted me and asked me, they deserve an honest answer. And whenever possible with detailed explanation of why I think someone is good or bad.
Sometimes the answer for Greek has been “This person is bad, but not worse than most people around here, and I don’t know of any better ones to suggest, so you don’t have much of a choice”.
Once a CM asked my opinion about who was better between two Italian moderators, who are both mediocre in my opinion. I suggested another three who are much better and suggested we should ask them if they are available, but the CM said she had to choose between the two who asked for the job.

Generally, I find this part of choosing Other Language moderators the most difficult part (the only difficult part) of being a Channel Manager.

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You can directly message the moderator. Maybe explain that their subs have mistakes and show them examples of how they can fix it. That way they learn if they don’t realize their mistakes. Just like what me and you do by informing each other about wrong subtitles or mistranslated titles. We both then fix our mistakes and learn together.
Or maybe offer to be their editor or co-mod to help polish the subs.

Also, you can report them to Viki. A few days ago, I added a subber that did not bother reading our team’s rules and subbed over my subs using google translate. I removed the person from the team and reported them to Viki, who took action and warned the user.

Now you make me want to know, if I have this volunteer on one of my team.:cold_sweat:

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The problem here is the ego. Most people are not humble enough to accept criticism with good grace.
You know what? The person whom I have seen most ready to listen to suggestions and accept mistakes with good grace is the most experienced, most senior and most valued k-drama editor here on Viki, the K-drama queen of editors. She is the best, and she knows she’s the best, so she has no problem admitting she may be mistaken once in a while, or has had an oversight. No inflated ego, no complexes, no ruffled feathers, but a practical mind, her only goal is to give the very best subs possible to the viewers, no matter what it takes.
In the same way as you see the English lords and ladies, barons and earls, going around with very simple clothing, a straight tweed skirt, a plain woollen cardigan and flat shoes. Of good quality, but very very simple. They know who they are, they don’t need to put on brand name frocks to publicise it like the nouveau-riches do. Only the insecure are edgy. And, believe me, many people are insecure.

Okay, frankly, none of us likes being caught having made a mistake. I also don’t like it. We’re human after all. Depending on how it’s worded, of course. If I get the impression that the person is telling me this in an arrogant, accusing way, if I know it’s someone who’s eagerly waiting to see me fall and is happy she found fault with my work, then there’s a little squeeze in my stomach. But I try to be a good sport anyway, I thank the person and go correct the mistake.

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This is the core problem when choosing who to rely on for opinion. Seniority on Viki, number of projects and even number of subtitles play zero role in how good somebody is as a translator and as a moderator. I have seen it all.

You could even be one heck of a translator, but so conceited that you repel everybody from working with you. Hence, you’re a bad moderator.

There are actually two of those on Viki, but one of them is on a permanent hiatus and drops by every now and then when desperately needed :smiley:

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The best lesson I’ve learned on Viki about people is:

Never believe in appearances or what people are willing to show you without searching for the intent.
Part of the truth, a truth you don’t know, but if you knew it, how would it change your perception?
In clear, learn to be not gullible whatever people pick to say to you or show you.

Everyone has ego. I have. Its place in your life, its importance, how you deal with it differ.

A gift, a flower, some kind attention, a nice message, a thank you message, of course, you take it or you just read it.
That could be the trick. If they know exactly what to say, when to say it and how to say it to obtain what they want (bonus if they know how people’s mind work), it’s all in their advantage.
And one day comes a situation. An opportunity where the thing they ask in exchange is at your disadvantage or their advantage, but they made it seem like it was not intended or you won’t even notice what happened or your mind would even reject that possibility to stay coherent with yourself.

In the same way, it’s not a hazard that Viki promotes some volunteers, it’s not a hazard why they created a ranking system, it’s not a hazard they picked to create counters and badges.
It’s not a hazard some info are not there.

And it’s nor a hazard why some people seem extremely sympathetic in some situations or remain silent.

What happens in society also happens on Viki, right? There are still the same social rules.

A good book:
Influence and manipulation psychology: “Influence - the psychology of persuasion” by Robert Cialdini, Ph.D.
Or how marketing works using psychology and social rules: it’s never what it seems.
The 6 principles we follow when we make decisions in society are known by some people who take advantage of it:

The video explaining it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFdCzN7RYbw

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As a CM I prefer moderators with experience and with a good reputation. And if I get requests from newbies or for languages I don’t speak, I ask other moderators in the respective language for advice. Within the German community I know at least one Turkish subtitler and one Arabic, so I could ask them to take a look. Concerning other languages, I ask more experienced moderators, if they would recommend the applicating moderator.

Concerning my teams as a moderator, I usually accept any application, but I suggest them to do one part for trial, because translating a drama is not the same as translating a text passage. They could try out, if they like to write subtitles and I will edit their parts asap and tell them honestly what is wrong and what is right.

While working on a drama, German teams usually have teamchats and we discuss the terminology and any questions. And we have google docs for the cast, formal and informal speech, terminology and the song lyrics. While editing I give a feedback to the team and point out common mistake as well as difficult and wrong translations. Most of my subtitlers appreciate this kind of feedback, because they want to improve their skills. Just a few react sulky :slight_smile:

One big problem in the German community is the lack of editors. We have way too few, so many dramas must wait for the final edits. As a moderator I help as much as I can and usually are doing the final edits by myself, but this needs time, too. Sometimes editors just vanish without any information or priorize other projects and leave the older ones behind. Many ot them underestimate how time consuming this process could be and just quitt after a few episodes.

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لقد أبلغته بأخطائه و شرحت حتى له قواعد الفريق و الألتزام بها و كل شيء و لكن لا جدوى و الآن لديه أكثر من 6 مشاريع متوقفة و معجبي قنواته يراسلونني لأكمالها و لكن لا يمكنني أحراجه بشكلٍ صريح لذا أجبرت في أحد مشاريعه على التقديم كمساعد مشرف للفريق و لكنرفض الطلب من المديرة للقناة و قالت ستحاول تجربتها لأسبوع أذا لم يعمل على المشروع فستضمني كمساعد له و الآن صدرت الحلقة الأولى و ما زال متوقف لمدة 11 يوماً و لا أعرف ما الحل مع معجبي دراماه :confused:

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We are also working that way, but some new translators are insisting on using their own ways of adding things that do not exist for their excellence. Now some of them became team Moderators and most of their projects are stopped without any progress, which led their project fans to write to take their place in the projects and complete them so just ask the managers to talk to them to complete their projects at least with one or two Eps a week so that the fans of other languages calm down and be patient. For experienced translators, we can collaborate with managers by proposing the best of them or at least helping them with the suggestion of someone who is added as the editor of the Moderator as it was four years ago.:rose: thank you, dear :hibiscus:

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I agree with you my dear, this is how the ego controls us sometimes, but it is nice for me to have someone give me honest advice about my mistakes. It is true that I am angry with him. We are human after all, but after thinking medically I discover that the opposite person wanted my interest. This is a good thing. We all make mistakes and we need help. Nobody is better than anyone here :slight_smile:

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I would like to know how you and other OL translators can find editors. Do you just wait and see if someone offers his/her skills or do you look for translators who are really good and suggest them to become an editor?

I edited a k-drama once. I asked for it, because the subbing really wasn’t good and also asked some other people to do it together. It was the first time I did it and I think editing with more people might be harder, because everyone has different opinions about what is wrong and what should be the right solution. Of course, I had made a google sheet with as much possible wrong translations and how they should be written instead, but there will always be details that you couldn’t foresee.

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Most time we ask in the Chat for an Editor, but you must know that this subber is really good in skills of grammer and so on. So it´s not easy Y_y

and yes, if more people edit it thinks it´s getin complicated. One person edits faster then the other, has other opinions for words and yeah.

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أظن أنني عرفت الشخص. اسم الشخص
Hado*****
صحيح؟

أنا أيضاً استغربت من هذا الشخص الذي ظهر فجأة وكان يأخذ جميع المسلسلات
الشخص لديه 27 مشروع كمشرف
وبعهضا لم يبدأه حتى

وحسب قوانين فيكي:

Moderator should:

  1. Actively participate in the Channel
  2. Act as a Moderator on no more than 4 on-air Channels at the same time

Subtitling shouldn’t:

  1. Subtitling without knowledge of the original and destination languages
  2. Using a translator program (ex: Google translate)
  3. Adding only HTML or punctuation marks into an empty segment
    ^^^ I saw that the person was adding only ♫ instead of subbing the ost

https://support.viki.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000238047-Volunteer-Guidelines

إذا كان الشخص الذي ذكرته هو الشخص الذي تتحدثين عنه، فرأيي أن تتحدثي من مدير القناة وتقولين أن هذا الشخص لديه الكثير من المشاريع التي لا يكملها أو يبدأ فيها حتى بعد أشهر وسنوات

لقد رأيت الكثير من الناس يتذمرون بشأن عدم توفر ترجمة لمسلسل
Touch **** *****

وكنت أفكر في المساعدة إن توفر لي الوقت بعد رمضان ولكن إذا كان الشخص لا يجيد العربية ويستعمل غوغل كما قلت
فلن أضيع وقتي في المساعدة لأنه من المكن أن يمحو ترجمتي أو يغيرها ويستخدم غوغل
وما فائدة ترجمة جيدة في الحلقات التالية والترجمة التي في الحلقات الأولى زبالة

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Also, if it is the same person I mentioned, it looks like they work with you on some projects you can compile a list of the google translate segments and report the user.
https://support.viki.com/hc/en-us/articles/200737345-How-to-report-abuse-or-spam-on-Viki-

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It’s not a hazard you are #10?

I don’t know if anyone of you ever did some PVP (=Player vs Player) in an online game or maybe when you had irl sports as a hobby participating in a competition.

I do like PVP a lot and I also participated in sports competitions.

For me, the challenge & achievement system of VIKI with collecting badges/or get badges while participating in the community project called “bringing Asian shows to a worldwide audience” is a nice extra. It appears more like a game then.

The difference between the rank system of PVP within games and the rank system of VIKI might be that the PVP rank is usually bound to points & win/loss rate while VIKI’s rank depends on contributions without a “quality aspect” like win/loss rate.

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