Viki

Are you being honest in your advice to channel managers about moderators and translators in your language?!


#130

Hey, ladies, this thread is gone waaaay out of topic in the last couple of days.
What about taking the discussion about particular dramas you liked/disliked on a separate thread?


#134

I already opened a watched drama thread, you can move it there?


#136

It seems that this Post has annoyed many here, I did not mean to annoy anyone or abuse him that it is only open to discussion and to improve our translations not to spread the dispute and conflicts. Greetings to all :rose::hibiscus:


#137

Wow… Just wow.

Amazing somebody would actually take offence to your post. Must be that somebody in your language reeeaaaly doesn’t like criticism. And thinks they can get away with it.

Why don’t you just add a sentence there, so it gets “unhidden”?


#138

Maybe, maybe someone does not like this discussion and felt offended by it. Although I see it as a constructive debate between us and the most beautiful that it includes all languages and develop our skills in translation and exchange of our experiences. Let us have a sporting spirit. I apologize to people who felt they had offended them and thought about the meaning of the post :bow:. Greetings to you, your advice has been successful :wink::+1:


#139

We were discussing in this post a lot that criticism must be both productive and said in a mildest way possible. Needless to say, there is a limit to how mildly you can say something.

At that point it’s up to the person receiving criticism to decide how they are going to react. Although, I think the main problem is we don’t decide how we react (we don’t stop to think), we just react :laughing:


#140

Several people must have flag this post, know that I am one of these people and,I do not hide it. My problem is not the topic…

But yes, love you all :kissing_heart:


#141

Bumping! :+1::+1:


#142

I am happy that such things are rare in French. But I have indeed come across many dramas where a bad translation, an absurd translation without any logic in context makes the meaning definitely not comprehensible. It usually happens when they translate idioms literally, with effects that would be comical if they weren’t sad. I have collected screenshots of many such examples in Italian and Greek.
I have also seen English translations of Chinese dramas that make zero sense, has never been properly edited and, as an Other Language subber, you don’t know how to translate them (I came across those as a tutor for the NSSA Italy, otherwise I never work on Chinese dramas)

Here is a French one. “Hag” is an insult, it means a mean and ugly witch, but the translator wrote “ma chérie” (= “my dear”). It may not be incomprehensible, but it doesn’t make sense if you know the characters and the story. (Of course one may take it as sarcastic!)
fr%20pearl%20001

Here is an English mistake. “handbook” (=manual) when it was “hanbok” (=traditional Korean dress). Someone stepped on the hem of her dress and tore it. Nothing to do with a handbook.

Here the Italian translator didn’t understand “I am pretty sure” (= quite sure) and translated as “I am surely beautiful. I told you not to threaten me.”
pearl_ita%20234-no-name

This other Italian translator didn’t know the meaning of “I pitched in” (= I contributed with money to buy a gift) and she translated “I exaggerated”. This gives a totally different meaning to the sentence. Plus she has a typo, “è” (3rd person singular of the verb “to be”) instead of “e” (conjunction meaning “and”). So her whole sentence reads as “Mother, I have exaggerated with the makeup is the red ginseng”.
She also added “io” (= “I”) before the verb, when in Italian it is only needed for emphasis (as if saying, in French, “Moi, j’ai exagéré”)
So, a sloppy and lazy subber who doesn’t know good English and doesn’t want to spend the two minutes to look up a word. Yet she is Italian moderator on, among others, two high-profile Korean historical dramas. What to say!
pearl_ita%2002%20martolina1988%20no%20name

And a Spanish one. The translator didn’t know that it’s a verb, “to scrub in”. It means to wash the hands and forearms very thoroughly with antiseptic and probably also with a brush under the nails before surgery. (And “scrubs” are the green robes that doctors and nurses wear in the operating room). So s/he confused it with the noun scrub = exfoliating cream to remove dead skin. “Do you want exfoliant for professor Min’s doggie surgery?”
pearl%20226%20-%20sp

I think we will agree that such translations will surely puzzle the viewer. And if many such things happen in a row (a translator like this doesn’t make only one mistake and a surely incompetent or absent editor like this is going to leave other mistakes as well), the viewer’s comprehension and pleasure of watching will be compromised.


#143

There are tons of funny translations I encounter while editing. For example, in one show it said: “Are you nervous? I’m Ying Ying, I do not lack suitors.” <- Ying Ying is a pop star, so she referred to men adoring her/ being interested to be in a relationship with her. In German, one of the translations for suitors is a word for a man that buys sex from women. They used it instead of the correct word, so the singer turned into a sex worker.
In another example, “being related” was translated into “related by blood”, so the lover of the protagonist suddenly turned into his relative by translation.
Or “He asked me to straighten up his daughter who just broke up.” was translated into “He asked me to straighten up his daughter who just broke down.” :sweat_smile:
Anyway, what irritates me most as a viewer is weird grammar. Really weird grammar. If the grammar/orthography is rather bad, I tend to turn off a series within 5 minutes or switch to English. E.g. there was this KDrama where I pm’ed the Moderator for the first time and asked to fix repetitive sentences such as
“Ich habe dich auf dem Telefon über das Gehen zum Klub mit deinem Freund gehört”.
I think they meant smt like
“Ich habe gehört, dass du am Telefon darüber gesprochen hast, mit deinem Freund einen Club zu besuchen” or
“Ich habe gehört, dass du mit deinem Freund am Telefon darüber gesprochen hast, einen Club zu besuchen.”

Whatever. But not this. It’s like “I have you on the telephone about going to club with your friend heard”. Just as horrible. :disappointed_relieved: And I think I had a similar experience when I watched another popular drama here on Viki. Later on it was edited though according to my knowledge.

Lately, I’ve reported someone for translating in a language they obviously didn’t know (and Viki removed them after we collected some evidence). However, that person returned and just continued under the very same name with partly the same projects in another language (I’m unable to verify since I don’t know it). Still, such person runs around again now claiming they can translate into Portuguese, Dutch, Catalan, Indonesian, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish… Of course.

In a different case, I’m doubtful that the translator understands German or English very well (it’s difficult to determine, but they simply don’t seem to understand some things) and they became very unreliable (meeting one out of 5 deadlines in various cases without explanation, no improvement, nothing). Instead, the person started taking a bunch of moderator projects (and did nothing in one of them for a while). Maybe no one was surprised why they got removed from 7-8 series, but as a CM I’d probably be surprised.

Just like I’d wonder if a part of the English team will be able to meet the requirements if they take up tons of projects. I’m aware that some of those manage fine with 10 projects, but others don’t. If the edit of one episode takes me 14 days, I’m not in a position to take up another project. If I’m as a OL moderator are unable to manage all projects I’m assigned to at once, I’m unable to meet the requirements.

And I will avoid accepting projects where 2 episodes per month get released in the future. By all means, I’m aware that there’s not enough people for this and that everyone hopefully wants to do a good job - but everyone should still know their own limits.

Of course anyone could commit mistakes, just like I think about how I can improve my own shortcomings as well (for example by providing an even more detailed spreadsheet, earlier edit etc.). There’s a lot to do.

Someone in 2019 elaborated here about people being manipulative. In fact, I thought about my position as a newbie moderator when I worked on my profile. I wondered how I can show that I’m determined and reliable, that I do a good job, though I only did a few projects previously. :thinking: Usually, I don’t just submit a one-line-application either. I don’t like to read those either. Still, I’m aware that people rather value built-up trust and experience. Viki is similar to working with Japanese firms. It’s about long-established bonds, pleasant conversations and reliability.

Nowadays, there’re even less of those I guess, except for a bunch of single subtitlers. One project without a schedule now turns out to be only half-finished after 5-6 months, and only one person still feels obliged to continue. It’s similar with editing. Without a deadline, it’s pushed back all the time and there’s a delay. I suppose, it’s the same with those unscheduled projects.


Giving a chance to a rookie x Falling for fake accounts
#144

This is subjective and context-dependent. Let’s say you are working as a Moderator on a series and are into 12/16 episodes in translating it. And let’s say another series, a potential next project is just starting. So, basically, if you applied for it, you would have a 2-week overlap in two projects and you will not be able to to do both projects at 100% during this time.

I see no problem applying for the second project and having a delay in episodes. Same as applying for a project that has already started. You have a delay. That delay may start at 4 episodes and stay that way until the end of the series, or even be diminished with time. As long as you discuss this with the CM beforehand.

And then, there are times when you just can’t help having an overlap because they reschedule the show you already applied for. I would then not want to step down as a Mod on a series which I know I would really passionately translate. And finish at that (something Mods in my and neighbouring languages have a problem with).


#145

I’m referring to people who have a bunch of unfinished projects (e.g. those who accept 20 projects and finish only episode 1 of each) or people who require a month to edit one episode for translation release while they accept 3 new projects at the same time. However, I’m not referring to someone accepting a new project at the end of another one. Lots of people do this, I do it as well. However, I know when it’ll be finished.
Same for sudden delays of the release of an entire series.

Anyway, I think that I still would have to take the possibility into account that I may have to do more than expected at one point. There are people who manage 10 series very well, there are people who are unable to manage 3. Therefore, I’m not too keen on using quantity to decide about quality.


#148

Am I being honest with my advice to CMs and Moderators about translators in my language?

Oh well… my language might be a language with millions of speakers in the world, but here at Viki, it is a minority language. Translators for my language are not found easily at Viki, that’s for sure. Not to forget the fact that the translators who work for Hindi are often trilingual, even in some cases, multilinguals. It is great to know 3 or 4 languages, right? A great thing to boast about on the Internet.

Unfortunately, being able to speak and comprehend a language and being able to write and communicate in a language are very different, very very different.

With (a lot of) disappointment, I am writing this down.
Just this week, I’ve come across 6 Google translators (I can’t imagine what the number might be in Spanish, Portuguese, XYZ languages); 2 of them, just today. With a language with almost 20 active volunteers, 6 is a huge number. It would mean, 1 out of every 3 Hindi translators uses Google Translate.

I always filter out my team. I take a test before adding them to my team, it does help in rejecting the applications who “pass” this test with Google Translate. If they actually pass, I monitor them for almost a week before actually convincing myself that they’re trustable. But even passing this test doesn’t guarantee that these subtitlers won’t use GT in future.

Unfortunately, there are also moderators who just don’t want to take the trouble of going with the test. Last week, I rejected a subtitler who sent me a copy of Google Translated subs, the next day, I find the very same translator working on a different show under another moderator. Because of such negligence, the translator might gain a QC status soon, and after that the world might be theirs. Poor CMs who don’t know the language will add such people as moderators and that’s the end of the story. A very fine drama would be “completed” in the language by such translators.
This is the subtitler I am talking about. See the number of projects this subtitler has been added to.


I find it stupid.


Not to forget, editors are scarce. Such translators/moderators don’t even care about the work they’re creating for the editor. Honestly, I find it super better to translate a show on my own rather than sitting for 2 hours and editing an episode translated by an AI.


Then there’s also a problem with these “multilinguals.” Hindi is the lingua franca of most parts of India. Almost everyone uses it daily. But a language in “spoken” form is very different than in “written” form. Many of these multilinguals grew up speaking Hindi as their 3rd, maybe 4th language. This, in its own, is an achievement. I wish I could also speak 4 languages.

Many of the active Hindi volunteers aren’t native speakers or speak a language with entirely different grammar. They often “mix” up their native language’s grammar with Hindi grammar, mixing up genders, tenses, vocabulary, slangs, which results in something like this:

Je voudrais (French) un vaso de agua (Spanish) , per favore (Italian).” (I’d like a glass of water, please).

At this point, it has become a game for me to guess a subber’s native language while editing.

It is also to be noted, there are also people who speak Hindi as their 3rd or 4th language but are very good translators.


There's also a subber whose native language isn't Hindi (or it seems so) but have a good number of projects as Hindi moderator.

Isn’t it better to be faithful to your native language and make shows available for your fellow speakers rather than creating more work for a language that you can only “speak” but can’t “write.”

I do not know if I should laugh or cry? Should I laugh because they’re not helping their native languages grow or should I cry because they’re unknowingly making another language die?

I greatly respect the people who choose to provide subtitles in their native languages rather than creating trouble for the Hindi community.


Here are some sample screenshots, which make me question, did they think they did a great job?


I don’t even know what this subtitle is supposed to mean? If anyone can help…?


Actual English subtitle: We breathe the same air as other people.
This Hindi subtitle: We get mother-in-laws from the same air as other peoples.


It is safe to assume, this sub says-- “ah,isthat sou!”


It is just my request to other Hindi moderators, please check the people you're adding to your teams. We don't want "Google Translators" or "people who make these subtitles shown above" to dominate our community. We are not working hard to leave a bad impression on our viewers. Keep your subtitlers in check, make sure they are people you can trust, and above all, people who make quality subtitles. Randomly adding anyone who says, "Hey! I have so and so expertise in English, Hindi is my native language. I want to make Hindi subtitles for this drama, the actor is my favorite. Thank you.", will only backfire. It would ruin your impression as a moderator. It is better to be safe than sorry.

See this review on a very, very popular show from January 2021.


#149

I was going to quote from your message @shraddhasingh but as I kept reading, I felt increasingly possessed by the horror of it all, as it is a horror I am also extremely familiar with in Greek…

At this point, editing an episode for 2 hours for machine translations is honestly the hopeful end of the deal. One time I spent 10 hours editing one single episode for a project that was passed to me from another mod with only a handful of completed episodes. At that point I wished to all my ancestors that the episodes hadn’t been done at all… (And that absolutely isn’t to measure who has it worse. I’m sure this is a thing that as mods, we have experienced at one point or another, even though I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.)

Greek is one of those languages that has fewer subbers than most, but unfortunately we already suffer from plenty of people who have gained QC status and beyond and, as you rightfully said it, the world is theirs now. It’s pretty disappointing both internally when trying to cooperate and externally if you were wishing to watch an… “unfortunate” show…

In the past couple of months, I did have a small period of time when I had bitten off more than I could chew due to project hand-me-downs of some abandoned ones. One could argue it was irresponsible of me as a mod, and I too felt the pressure very heavily at the time. I had to shuffle my translation schedule accordingly so no drama suffered disproportionately over the others, but the state in which I received most of those projects was so sad, it already set me back a week each, due to spending entire days editing the gibberish I found inside. Yes there did come a time I wished I had declined one of those, but unfortunately I failed to rationalize the sacrifice of quality over another mod’s sloppy work at the time…

Later, another greek mod (I am not naming names, but we’re a small community, it’s alright. I don’t mind if they read this or if someone puts it together. It’s not something personal, but rather, just something that happened.) pleaded with me to take on a couple of newbies, insisting they had tested their translation quality themself, and they may make “a few” mistakes but they were “very willing to learn”. Since it was an old drama, I tentatively accepted, telling the newbies there would be a trial period… Well. One of them never showed up after I added them. The other was almost also a no-show, except the time they showed up to do 30 or so incomprehensible subtitles from which it was clear they were not anywhere near fluent in English, let alone comfortable to write in Greek. What do I even say to the other mod? I honestly just let it go at the time… Although, needless to say, I am never taking on subbers I haven’t tested myself ever again.

I have worked with a subber who wasn’t 100% comfortable translating, but they admitted it and put in effort to check their own mistakes and note my advice. So despite the small language handicap, that effort showed through and it made all the difference in editing. That makes for 1 out of all the subbers I’ve briefly worked with though, which is a really discouraging number.

That said, and speaking of moderator responsibility, I am relieved that my schedule is returned to 2 projects at last so I don’t have to feel guilty about only (solo) translating 1 episode a week per show…


#150

Quick addition: I can’t help wanting to mention that I was fortunate in the sense that I was sort of a breakthrough case, as when I was a completely new subber, I requested to subtitle for my true passion project at the time, The Untamed, that had been abandoned at 2 (machine translated?) episodes, and the wonderful CM trusted me enough to add me even though it would have been easy to refuse, and proceeded to be a pleasure to work with and a very supportive and helpful CM, who later made me mod in my language as I neared the sub count required.

I am very thankful for that trust and I truly think it was very formative for my experience on viki. But would I advise CMs and moderators to do the same? Honestly not easily, considering the numbers are so discouraging. But if someone does have the time and the ability to test and/or cross-examine their OL mods/volunteers through a trusted channel, it could make a difference for someone.

I for one would wholeheartedly volunteer to provide a detailed and honest review of any applicant for my language for shows I am not involved in, should an other language CM or another mod trust me with it. However, I have experienced the flip side of trusting another mod with a selection so I am still aware it’s not a foolproof method. Hopefully an improved system though? Unsure.