To me it’s hilarious that… let’s say 2 lyrics per episode on average (translation often copy-pasted) are so much work that a person “at the end of the chain” can’t exclude them if they think they might not be appropriate.
The channel has eight languages where the last episode is full translated. I’m not sure if the entire series is truly translated. But it’s 60 episodes, it’s really long. We started it without knowing what we are getting ourselves into. And now we are stuck. We’ll have to think long and hard if it’s worth proceeding.
I just find it hilarious. Mmm… the ost linked with dialogues could be a previous one or a new one and not yet translated. I remember meeting both cases.
That people let it or no, they’re free, it is just lyrics.
Lol the teams hit the jackpot.
Normally, the CM should have contacted Viki, have you contacted the CM or any news from him?
The weird subs are from before?
It seems to me it was not edited in English.
If it was not edited in English, then how other languages are supposed to do?
I wouldn’t rely on the subs, all the subs.
It’s really important that the team and CM spot these things before OLs begin.
If it wasn’t spotted by someone, then I begin to think strongly there was no English editor.
As a mod, I would flee from this project or wait that a full English team and team of seggers come on this drama to give a hand.
It’s a special case.
I don’t think we’re going to evoke each special case possible, but in your case, I told the team to complete it, because in case they put the previews back, we don’t need to call the team again to complete it. We just need the subs and save a copy.
But I find it weird that you don’t have the old subs since it was reuploaded. Why do you have to translate it again?
Either it’s reuploaded with the subs, either it’s copying pasting.
If it’s copying pasting subs, as you said, no much time to copy paste?
@bozoli I appreciate your thoughtfulness. The Ninja segmenting guidelines state OST should be segmented when the OST music is as audible as the scene’s dialogue and persists for at least 30 seconds. As an editor, I should be more mindful of the 30 second guideline! Often, I am editing line by line rather than thinking of the whole scene.
Sometimes, we don’t know if background music which is pretty audible will be part of the OST or not. So when we hear in a series audible lyrics, we are faced with the dilemma or subbing or not subbing. If we don’t sub and two or three or four weeks or even months later find that the music has become part of the “official” OST, then I go backwards to re-locate the music and segment and sub it.
Certainly one should consider whether mere background music should be subbed or not. On Reply, 1988, viki got the license several months after original broadcast. By then complete annotations of all the background music had been published. The director of the Reply series is famous for his personal selection of the background music and thought that music was essential to evoke the feelings of the time featured in the drama.
At one point when the segtimer and subeditor were being changed from their form back in 2009 and 2010, there was a serious plan to make an additional line on the top of the screen available for the subbers for at least two purposes: translator notes and for OST lyrics. Unfortunately it was never implemented. I guess the screen would have been rather cluttered with viewer comments, the additional line for subbers’ use and the subtitles on the bottom.
I share your pain in redoing an old series which was previously subbed at viki. I am redoing just one which was uploaded last week and there are moved dialogue, and about ⅓ of the dialogue is new because each episode is longer than the prior episodes.
Ohh something pops up from the old days when Viki had a music section and when the soundwave was new. I liked to segment MV’s according to the lyrics to gain experience with the new timer and had people check my work… All good so far.
There was an MV i spent quite a lot of time on and which I really liked so I listened to it quite a lot but one day the subs where all over the place so I repaired it. Week later, same story. I was quite upset and pissed and then a friend told me to contact Viki as they could restore it as it was. I did and after a few days it was back to normal… Until a few weeks later and I had to contact Viki again to have it restored and then they did manually lock it I believe. It was different people all the time but it felt as if someone was attacking me by ruining my hard work over and over again. And not only my work but also the work of the person who subbed it.
On the subject of whether OST should be subbed or not, on the discussion thread Please stop translating the lyrics in the music, the majority of posters as of today prefer OST to be subtitled.
At least for Cdramas, there are times it is not so clear-cut.
Hard-subbed ost < 30 sec
Hard-subbed ost > 30 sec but dialogues so extensive and quick, it was impossible to put lyrics. So we see Chinese characters of lyrics appearing, but we read what characters are saying only.
The 1st and 2nd category:
the guide makes a slight difference between as loud as dialogue / audible
As loud as dialogue: there is no specification of timing (same for hard-subbed ost).
Oh yes. That jovial, chatty subber who put her own comments, sharing her own reactions to the show, including emoticons!
!
But, as @piranna rightly says, the English editors should have taken care of this before releasing to Other Languages.
Of course, I know that some (especially Chinese) old shows take ages to release, and the other languages, in despair, choose to translate anyway.
For my subber training course I have come across one of those shows. It’s terrible to translate when you can barely understand what the dialogue means (good training for subbers, though).
@bozoli, @irmar
Were those subs already in the old version? I have watched both Giant (even multiple times), Beethoven Virus at least once, but I just can’t remember subs like that …
Maybe my memory is failing on me, but I can’t remember that.
As a subber and viewer, I am like this:
-personal feelings do not belong into a subtitle (be it in word or emoticons), a subtitle should contain the actual dialogue. It should not add that doesn’t come from the words used by the actors provided from the script.
-if you do not understand then don’t fill in subs
-if it is just inaudible, for some reasons like other noise suppressing the dialogue either no segment or put in breaks the situation but without making assumptions.
It may have been fun for that subber but this kind of subs, you could actually find them as timed comments in earlier years and there it would be okay, since no other subber is using it as a base for other languages.
Anyway, as always such things encounter in training will make you feel less lost when confronted at another project.
This is epic
This is one the things that lift my mood, because it is rare and incongruous to find this on Viki while watching or translating, like where can we observe a monologue from the subber nowadays?
@irmar Hilarious. Hope I wasn’t the editor! Actually I remember watching the series about a year after it was subbed at viki because it won a lot of end of the year awards and I don’t remember any of that weird stuff. I think if I saw it I would have written to the CM or viki staff about inappropriate subtitling. Did you check the history of the sub in bulk translate? You should have precise dates for each version of the sub.
re: The wierd subs on Giant. The series was broadcast in 2010. On Giant I was a segger, subber and one of at least three English editors. After I read Bozoli’s post I checked Episode 1 and found out that in 2015 someone not on the team changed almost ⅓ of the subs in Episode 1. The person is not listed in the Team so that means she/he snuck in. Just now I randomly checked on Episode 9 and find yet another non team member snuck in a year after we finished subbing and did 400 subs on the series. I then went back to episode 2 and found another person who added an extra period to the end of lots of sentences. These interlopers are no longer at viki. I think at the time of the original subbing “locking” was not an option so all dramas were fair game for people wanting to do mischief. When the locks were instituted, I know I went back to lots of old dramas for which I was a moderator and locked the English but I never thought to look through 60 episodes to see if there were any changes. I think for a while viki didn’t have a license for the drama too so we couldn’t watch it at viki. So there might be a lot more surprises yet to come when I have time to re- look at the rest of the series.
This goes back to my start of the thread – check your old projects once in a while too!
That explains a lot. If the lock didn’t exist at that time… open doors.
Hopefully, CM have more tools now compared to before in front of these problems of abusers.
Locking segments, locking subtitles, designated channels.
That is why I think that communication between OL mods and any member on the team is important.
If something is weird when you translate, tell the CM or the English editors. The CM in addition can contact Viki and do something for the team.
As an OL mod, you can’t do much, except informing so they can find a solution.
I don’t hesitate to ask CM or editors when I spot some things. There was a time, I remember seeing the whole part segmented, checked and edited, but someone butchered it. I asked the CM if I could fix segments and the CM let me. It was solved just like that.
There was a time my segments were butchered because it was not a designated channel, I informed the CM, I reported to Viki and asked that they delete the segments (and made it a designated channel? I don’t remember). Viki deleted segments she did and let my segments, but what remains of my work was a battlefield without the previous extensions. It was better to erase everything and segment it again to gain time, so I asked Viki to delete everyhing and they did delete everything and made it a designated channel.
That is why, the solution could be easy to find.
Everything should be locked, and why not making a sheet to remember what dramas are locked, at what time we did our last check on this drama and also save the subs in case.
In your case, maybe sb in the team kept a copy of the subs just after edition?
Or you might find the original subs on Viki from illegal websites.
Sadly Beethoven Virus is restricted for me now. I couldn’t even do the final edit of the Italian. I do have the direct links to Bulk Editor kept somewhere, but I’d have to do it without the video - or have the video open on another site to check, which is really time-consuming.
If this means copy-pasting them one by one, it’s easier to just click on history and revert to the previous, correct version. No?
I like your idea of a sheet with all one’s previous projects. But of course, what else the Queen of Sheets would think of ?
I watched Beethoven Virus on Viki as well and I don’t recall seeing those weird subs. Must be an abuser who ruined things here and there to gain QC status. Really Viki should remove QC status from those people and maybe an extra rule they cannot become a QC for a year when they abuse the system.
I don’t know how it is in the subtitler editor (history) once it is uploaded, removed, re-uploaded on Viki. Is the history kept? (What about team discussions and team notes when the drama had them?)
For me, depends on how many subs need to be changed.
If it’s a few, manually is fine.
The problem is taking the time to check and locate them or they share the task in the team, 1 person for 1 ep, it could be really fast that way.
If it’s not a few, could try to ask for Viki’s help.
If we have the original file with the correct edited subs and their timing => we could give them this one to upload and cut the previews.
Or with both the original correct file + the current file (weird subs) and their timing, we could try creating a new srt file, merge the files together to only take the new timing and the old subs.
Then give the file to Viki like an srt file to upload.
There’s a saying that goes like:
“When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”
I should emanticipate myself from sheets and begin to discover other tools!
The lyrics are there if I am the one who is subbing. The only thing to bother is that they are not in Hindi but English (if I am wrong I am ready to get scolded for it)
No, you weren’t the editor, there wasn’t even one line with your name. There was a first round in 2008, then in 2012 auntiemame edited, but in 2014 several people came in and wrecked havoc.
All the history is kept. See, here:
What happens to our contributions when a video is deleted? No worries, it seems they’re still there. See at the right hand corner? “Wrote a sub on a deleted video”.
But not always! The following subber made 856 subs for Beethoven Virus and a few on a couple of other dramas. Beethoven Virus hasn’t been deleted (although episode 8 was replaced because the voice and video were out of synch). Yet there are zero contributions. Very strange.
And let me finish with another subber who thought he could share his own views on the characters:
Thank you for bringing up this issue! From time to time I do check up my channels, but usually I take a look on the progress and not on the subs themselves. And I check the comment section and the timed comments. I will keep that in mind next time, I’ll check over the episodes.
Concerning the lyrics, I’m a big fan of OST and in my teams we have always a google sheet with all songs and lyrics. But - as long as we don’t have the English lyrics, we put in a music note. I will always wait until we get the English lyrics put up into the Team Notes, I don’t use the lyrics from the episodes, as long we don’t have a revised version. Just because those lyrics from the episodes are sometimes so different, that my subbers have problems to recognize them.
A few times I left those segments empty, because the CM doesn’t like simple notes in the subs, but in this case viewers did complain, that the episodes are not fully translated. Usually I fill in any lyrics while doing the final edits, but sometimes I have other editors, I can’t do all the final edits alone. We have a huge lack of reliable editors in the German community and I had dramas with 3-4 editors, all vanishing after a few weeks, when they realized, how time consuming editing could be. In the meanwhile all those empty segments were still there, so I really prefer putting in simple notes and think it’s better to use notes as a placeholder, until I or the editor could fill in the missing subs.
On this person’s project page there were three projects where s/he worked. Beethoven Virus with 856 subs and other two dramas, with a few subs in each. Okay? Then I went to “Recent contributions”, to check whether there were any funny translations. But, instead of seeing some pages of those subs, there was nothing, it said - as you saw on the screenshot - that this subber had no contributions.
On all other subbers I checked yesterday, the subs were showing in Recent Contributions, even if it was 11 years ago, even if it was on videos since deleted.
Why on this subber’s page there is nothing?
If the person were an abuser, Viki would have also deleted the sub count, but they didn’t, the sub count says the total number. So why there are no Recent Contributions?
It’s a mystery.
!
I didn’t understand that part.
Gotta check on 2 subbers later, lazy from lazy here.