Contributors who want to demotivate other contributors on purpose

Let me tell you a story. Around 3 years ago I submitted a channel for NIF 2 and Viki appointed me as the Channel Manager. Because of the high expectations for this second season and because I wasn’t very experienced, I asked a “veteran” channel manager I knew and whom I trusted a lot, if she wants to join as the Co-CM. I already had accepted and added the Chief Editor and I told this my new Co-CM from the very beginning. And she worked together with the CE before, so she had no problems at all.

Later this Co-CM added an English moderator and because I knew that she was fluent in English and Chinese, it was okay for me. One day, my Co-CM reached out for me and told me, the English moderator wants to drop out due to private reasons. She suggested to take in Deadliftdiva, I knew her as an editor from other dramas, where I was the German moderator. At this time, we already had a General Editor, too. So Deadliftdiva was from the very beginning the substitute and No 2 for the position of the English moderator.

Things went well until NIF 2 was licensed. I got a message from my Co-CM and she told me, that conflicts appeared, because Deadliftdiva wanted to bring in her own team and my Chief Editor wanted to add a new TE and her trusted subtitlers. When Deadliftdiva was added, there was no agreement, that she would do the editing too. So I told my Co-CM, that our CE was first and I want her to stay. Deadliftdiva would stay as the English moderator and she could do a first round of editing, if she wants, but our GE and CE would do the second and third round. Our CE would have the final saying.

Now the chilly winds started to blow not only in NIF 2, but on Viki, too. I was told that I should kick my CE out. She had so many other projects and she was doubted to fulfill her duties properly. I was told, that on other dramas, where was she the CE, the progress was very slow. But I told my Co-CM that I keep my promises and won’t kick her out. She was the first in our team and she would stay. The GE would stay, too.

Meanwhile I got a message from Deadliftdiva. She realized, that our team already had a CE and a GE (what a surprise, that she realizes something like this after months!!) and she would like to overtake the position as the Chief Editor. She praised herself, okay, it was kind of an application and told me “she would not mind to keep the GE as a welcome helper. She would not mind the CE getting a credit to make her happy if that helps”, but she wanted her position. And I told her the same, our CE would stay and I won’t kick her out.

With the next message she told me, she would strictly abide and only call her subbers and moderate her team. AND started to badmouth the CE, it was disgusting. She called the CE a hoarder, but I won’t post a screenshot, because this concerns not only me. The best part of her message was that she was outraged because “a new talent or a talent unknown having little to no opportunity to grow or show their strenghts”. Please, how could someone, who is greedy for all four positions, have any thoughts or consideration for new talents?

Meanwhile I learned the reasons, why the former English moderator dropped out. It’s my fault, that I didn’t talk with her before and blindly accepted the suggestions of my Co-CM. I apologized sincerely for my lack of responsibility and we are on good terms. Deadliftdiva found out, that we were working together, she slagged her of and even warned me to not work with her.

The first trailers and episodes were uploaded and the tone got harsher. After my CE sent out the first greetings and rules for the English subtitlers, Deadliftdiva made her own rules and put them up in the Team Discussion. She was the one, who dominated the Team Notes and if someone dared to change them, she changed them back. My Co-CM put up the third set of rules and posted them without my knowledge and put Deadliftdiva in the position of the “packleader”. So I tried to tone down the drama within the drama and told the English team, that all editors and the English moderator are one team and that everyone is equal important. Guess what? I was completely ignored.

If you are the first channel manager and you add a second one, your avatar won’t be the first in line anymore, but the second channel managers’s one. This was a perfect excuse for Deadtliftdiva to put the Co-CM over me and to talk me down. It was so bothersome, that I asked Camille, if she could put my avatar back in the first position and I told her, without further details or names, that we have many problems within the team and I was trying to calm them down and keep peace for the sake of the drama. You may think, this was a petty move from me, but so I stripped Deadliftdiva from the foundation of her impudence.

The assumptions of Deadliftdiva in Pirannas Screenshot are NOT true. Both editors and the subtitlers discussed and weighed up any changes, notes and vocabulary closely and accurately in the Team Discussion. I still remember the discussion about “prince/duke” where Deadtliftdiva insisted in her point of view and ignored any objections. I don’t know, which arrangements she made before with my Co-CM, but for me, I only accepted, that she would do the first round of a rough editing. I never agreed, that she should do the translation editing, a kind of FULL first editing and even a segmenting editing. For what reason should the English moderator do a segmenting editing, if you have such capable segmenters like Bjohnsonwong and Serenite in your team?

Both editors and I got countless side-kicks, little mean side blows, consistently respectless shabby tricks, so I warned Deadliftdiva, if she wouldn’t stop immediately, I would not mind to kick her out of the team. It’s not that she refused to quit, I let her stay, but only for the sake of the drama.

I must admit, that at first I was overwhelmed and devasted, but I kept in close touch with my both editors, I got “mental support” from the former English moderator. And I even asked another channel manager for advice about the rules, duties and responsibilities within an English team. A channel manager, whom I really trust, admire and like a lot. And although I didn’t mention any names, I’m pretty sure, she could easily guess, whom I was talking about. Her advice and encouraging words helped me a lot.

After NIF 2 was wrapped up, I kept avoiding Deadliftdiva and my Co-CM. I’m a peaceful person and don’t like fights, which doesn’t mean, I can’t defend myself. But I fear, that other channel managers with less support have been pushed aside. Since Piranna was so brave and stepped forward and I learned, that Deadliftdiva skewed the truth in order substantiate her greed, I won’t remain silent anymore. Maybe this could help future channel managers to read Deadliftdivas real face and prevents them from such a bitter experience. Thanks god I have saved all my messages, so I could prove anything I’m talking about, if neccessary.


Please don’t delete, it was extremely helpful.

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It is very important to let people know without a shadow of doubt the order of the workflow and who does what. If all this is not clear, what you mentioned can easily happen in any team.

The workflow as I understand it is: subber --> TE --> GE --> CE. None of the previous ones goes over the next person to change their edits. If the TE is not in agreement with something the English editors or the Chief Editor does, they can write about it and discuss it, but not directly change.
(As a GE, I often go in right after the subbers to change some glaring grammar or formatting mistakes and streamline names, spelling and OST, but I don’t consider this a real edit, just a pre-edit, for the sake of viewers who are too impatient to wait for the editing before watching. In that case of course TEs should and must change my edits if there is a translation mistake)
Also, if there is more than one GE, if they disagree on something (other than obvious typos or formatting issues), they should discuss it and state their reasons for wanting to change their colleagues subs.
Of course the CE decides on the final Team Notes rules and nobody else should change them, other than adding new names/titles/nomenclature as it appears.
If it is perfectly clear who the CE is, then there should be no problem. But in your example, the roles were not clear and the competences between the two CMs were not well-defined too. If each CM has her own team and supports the people there, there will be strife. So I think that the main problem was the disharmony between you and your co-CM. If not for that, nothing of the rest would have happened.

P.S. After all this time, I am still struggling to understand what exactly is the role of the English moderator. Other than coordinating the various team members by sending messages like “you may start working”. If not specified as GE, the English mod shouldn’t touch the subs, right? Then her role is extremely limited.

Change - out of context from the latest comments

Will you feel demotivated if a channel you are working on as a other language team member not getting the green lights on the last episode for a long time (weeks)!
Okay, the drama was not on air, but recently uploaded by Viki with 2 episodes a week.

Okay, the English subs weren’t the fastest. That’s not too bad, right?

Okay, other language comments are flooding the comment section of the drama. Are we too used to it by now?

Okay, the CM put the drama as completed project on her profile page. Okay? Not okay?

I am tormented about something like that, for me this is like what do I care about other languages?
What do I care about the other languages’ teams?
What do I care at all …

I care, even I am not a team member at this channel …

Isn’t it shaking up the foundation, what Viki is selling? The image of communication, going beyond language barriers. Is this behavior fit for a CM?
Or, will there be an “oops” sorry, we forgot to put up the green light for the other language moderators regarding the last episode?
I have sent a PM, I am curious now …


Let us know what happens!

I recently opened this thread

after not being at all in any of the projects with those issues. By accident I saw the abuse and wanted to help by any means possible. The thing is, I’m not sure those people, who should be reading this complaint of mine, have actually done it. And that sort of state is highly demotivating for ALL other language moderators and subtitlers, meaning the other 90% of the CM’s team.

You know what’s also demotivating? When a person copies your subs into not one, but two other languages. A person who is a long-term Viki contributor, having some projects with a role of a CM even. Lovely, isn’t it?

What did I do about it? Reported that person to Viki with screenshots as evidence. Cold-headedly, like we are in court. We will see what happens next - will I have to appeal or will the justice be served.

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Wait, how is this possible? If your subs are, say, in German, how can one copy them into the French and Italian slots? This would be an abuser, like the ones who fill the slots with periods or exclamation marks. The French and Italian team would be at her throat.

do they do it by google translate or in the same language just to get some subs for their vikipass?

The show was translated to Croatian. The (ab)user copied the subs into Serbo-Croatian and Serbian. These languages are quite similar, although with time they are getting more and more dissimilar.

Serbo-Croatian we use when both Croatian and Serbian and Bosnian etc translators want to unite to work on a common project together. The main problem of the languages of former Yugoslavia is too few volunteers.

However, Serbian should be written in Cyrillic alphabet. The abuser made too few modifications to our Croatian for it to be called proper Serbian language, thereby massacring their own language. And definitely didn’t use Cyrillic letters.

We though this kind of behaviour in Yugoslavian languages died out a long time ago. We were wrong. It’s only a couple of individuals who do this in our languages. But they are enough to create a bad atmosphere for us here on Viki.

Am I also wrong to think that CMs should be held to a higher degree of accountability for such actions than moderators and subtitlers?

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How? When some already fall short when it comes to the first language in line?

Hmm… I’m not sure what you meant there.

I meant, since this abuser is a CM on some of the projects, shouldn’t they be held even more responsible for not being the role models in our community? Nobody is perfect, of course. But this goes way beyond a simple mistake.

Edit: Oh, do you mean since as a CM you are responsible for already the first language of translation?

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Yes, although some CMs don’t seem to think like that. So to make it clearer, if CMs sometimes can’t even manage with the base language and do not get harmed because of it. To punish them because, they neglect an abuser, seems even more difficult. When, Viki is like “hands off”, we are not involved in translations. “Translations are done by our wonderful volunteers.”

Okay, sometimes accounts will be banned, or even deleted. But we all know some manage their way to crawl back.

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Yeah, yeah, I wasn’t thinking about the CM of the project where the subs were copied. I was referring to the fact that the person who copied the subs is a CM on some other projects. And Viki should have a higher standard when choosing its CMs.

Of course that CMs on the project don’t know what might be happening in the OLs. But this time I chose not to bother the CM with the issue, since it’s an old project. Rather, I went to Viki directly.

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The only team the Co-CM brought in and who caused so much trouble, was the substitute English moderator. And I think the roles were not clear, because there was an agreement between the Co-CM and the English moderator, which excluded me.

For that reason I contacted other CMs and asked for advice. I know the rules of the Ninjas, which were made some years ago, so the role of the English moderator is limited. I agreed with my Co-CM, that the English moderator may do a first round of editing, not more. If my Co-CM defined those duties in another way within her usual specific team and made different agreements with the English moderator she should at least let me know, shouldn’t she?

And even a disharmony between the CMs in one team shouldn’t lead to such a respectless behaviour towards the other editors. All English subtitlers, the English moderator and the Editors build the English team, they are teamplayers and what they should respect is the teamwork. The whole team respected each other, the only solo dancer was Deadliftdiva.


I insist. There should be a clear agreement between Co-CMs, divide the jobs or whatever works. From the beginning. “I brought you to help, but I’ll still be the one to decide roles”. “Hm, no, I’d want to be the one to do that, I have some people in mind already” “Oh, if it’s like that, thank you but I’d rather not have a co-CM”
Maybe there was an agreement but wasn’t kept?
If each CM thinks they have the power to assign roles to the team, and each CM recruits a different person, there will be two for each role. And in the case of Chief Editor, there cannot be two. There will be two different factions, each faction only talking with “their” CM, listening only to her words and taking only her words as valid. Each one will think that 'her" CM is the main one. (Or choose to think that way because it suits them to think that way).
In that situation, how can there be teamwork, I ask you?
I’m not saying that everything is your fault. The people in the team who were adaptable and meek didn’t cause problems. But it was a situation that created the possibility for people who were not meek and adaptable, to try and gain a place of power. If you hadn’t created that possibility, the problem wouldn’t have arisen.
So, the way I see it (from what you told us here, since I have no personal knowledge about the case) is that it all happened because you were too trusting of that co-CM and didn’t foresee she would act arrogantly and want to usurp your place instead of being a helper.
What the team members did was a consequence of this.

Lesson for all of us: two CMs can be trouble. Let’s avoid it.


Where were you when I needed this? \o/ You’ve just attracted a good dose of good karma into your life.

It’s never too late to raise the red flags of caution. This “volunteer pool” may not be the Padang Padang in Bali or the Nassau in Bahamas, but we are all in it, swimming in it. This would certainly help the newbies and the less-experienced “swimmers” or “beachgoers” to be more alert and informed, lest they step into a whirlpool and ended up with wounds.

Clearly and shockingly, from what I am reading here, such undesirable and uncivil behavior continues, over and over, to date. What a shame!


Should we talk about CMs who give their place to another CM friend. And the CM friend then decides to delete some moderators to favor friends? (It reminds me of an old past that we would rather forget) Or even CMs who give first to their friend without taking into consideration those who may be interested. Or CMs who think they know better than others (for number of contribution? Really, you are absurd!). We have been talking about Linda since the beginning, but she is not the only one who does stupid and greedy things. Yes, she is the empress but there are many other imperials persons around here.

Well, with all that you, everyone, have been saying for a week, I can see one thing: viki community is rotten. But it is we who let this become so. And it is vikistaff which is useless, to put rules. I blame members of the community, but I also blame vikistaff, vikirepresentants and myself to participate in this.

And it’s not a question that everyone is afraid to say something, it’s a question that everyone is involved in stupid bad tricks. Many other people do not care because they know it’s stupid and are better than that. But when did we lose our moral? We are talking about things inherent to viki organization, but there are really more serious things happening. I just want to remember everyone that Internet is a space that is still managed by laws. Although viki does nothing to impose rules, remember that the law still exists. And if you get harassed, insulted or anything else, you can file a complain! Cyber-harassment is severely punished now. NEVER FORGET that behind your screen, you are not safe from punishments and law!

Back to Viki, whether it’s CM’s place or moderators, I admit that people’s greed, I do not understand it. I am really sad that people have come so far for a mediocre position, which will certainly not determine her/his life. All the tricks you put in place make me pity: by friends, second accounts or anything else.

I know that the human has an aggressive part in him determined by his desire, however, we are subject to social codes, rules, laws and fundamental laws. I know that Internet can be a refuge for everyone who thinks they can enjoy an omnipotence, but do not forget that you are not all-powerful, you are not God. You are just one human being, a nickname or even a number (for those who still believe that the number of contributions can give value to one person, which makes me even more pity). Whether you are English, Chinese, Korean, French, Spanish speakers or any other language, we are equal. If you believe you have more power because you have more skill, or you have “friends” OR because you are close to vikistaff members - who are also humains - you are mistaken heavily. To enjoy superficial power for an ephemeral time… is ridiculous. (Ps : “Friends” because we all know we have no friends on viki, you are mostly in utility relationships and that’s all)

But I know that our complaints here will be useless and that this post will never succeed in anything. I am glad that some people can still express themselves. It relieves a little. Even if everything continues. I do not expect anything from that. Nothing will change. Maybe, the best people will leave viki. And they are right.

One thing is sure, I do not want to be part of a community like this anymore. I will not participate in this anymore, and I will not accept anybody like that in the future for any position (you can also put me in your blacklist of French moderators, I do not care about it. Anyway, it will change nothing since you have your favorites, and it’s usually never me. Or me, but because you know that I’m CM sometime and want favors) I will greatly favors newbies. My conclusion is here: My life is worth than viki and if you need viki for living, then keep it.

Anyway, we all know that one day viki will disappear in favor of another great platform that you all know. I can not wait to see this day happen. :joy:
Anna is fed up. :kissing_heart:


Oh, I know at what point you are. Once my days were filled with Viki, I came I discussed and subbed and subbed. I did moderation, I hopped from here to the next channel and suddenly the tune was more aggressive and Viki less responsive. That made me frustrated and I took a break, a short one, a longer one. I still come back, but I rarely do more than help here and there. But I came back because of the old days. There are more things in life to take care of and one day there will be a program who will make subtitles in the blink of an eye.

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Hi Irmar,

I get your point and you’re right. I think, I was too trusting and therefore overwhelmed with the “double forces”. I know, I’m not the first and not the last one, who had to deal with them, but I hope, that I could at least help or warn others to not do the same mistake.

WHAT A SHOCK! It boggles my mind to no end! And makes me :rage:

@somejuwels Thanks for sharing. I had no idea that had happened! I’m sorry you, your editors and your English team had to undergo such an ordeal. The silver lining from it is the understanding of the true, unmasked faces of some volunteers.

It’s a real shame that here we are, a pool of volunteers with our own RL demands who willingly share our talent and time, for free, hoping to uphold this erstwhile worthwhile mission to facilitate “entertainment without barriers”, yet such nonsense had happened, continues to happen and is allowed to fester and continue.

Rakuten Viki, being the corporation behind this platform, should not sweep such issues under the rug anymore. PLEASE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Lay down specific ground rules. Enforce them when breached. DO IT before more and more volunteers abandon this ship without looking back. Not just @anna79_9 or @piranna, but many others, including me, too.

To all volunteers: For humanity’s sake, we are volunteers, not competitors for “work/promotion with pay/perks”.

  1. Stop being uncivil to other volunteers;
  2. Stop being malicious and manipulative;
  3. Stop being hurtful and harmful.
    Above all, Stop.The.Greed! :rage: