Contributors who want to demotivate other contributors on purpose

piranna · September 20, 2016, 1:10am

Hello !

I am aware of the fact of contributors (real contributors and not only viewers) saying bad and harsh comments about others’ contributions, about others’ mistakes on translations saying that they are trash etc These words are spoken with no trace of kindness, nor consideration for others’ feelings but only with disrespect from the contributor author. It’s clearly written with the intent of hurting the contributors and discouraging them in pursuing their contributions on Viki.
What I find really surprising is when the victim has a good level in his language.
I think that no contributor deserves comments like that, no one deserves this wrath, no matter the level. This is about respect and dignity. And being on a website, being on Viki, being old or new, being old or young, being cm, moderator, subber, etc don’t erase these fondamental points.

There are some problems among contributors, it is something that has to be said so that we (Vikians, Viki, third party) will be aware of and do something about it :

Disrespect and discourtesy : contributors (old or new) don’t all talk with respect to other contributors.
+Some active moderators don’t answer to pm when contributors ask to participate in projects. It’s not because they can’t answer, it’s because they don’t want to answer. This is a fact and it’s not 1 contributor having this problem, it’s many when I talk to other contributors.
It’s like saying hello and the other just pass through you hearing your hello.
Some active CM don’t answer neither, wondering if they belong to a corpuscle of the same gang ?
The problem is how can we contribute if the person in charge of recruiting doesn’t want to hear about you ? How can we still feel good on Viki and keep wanting to help if other contributors shut us down by telling us disrecpectful words, worst if other contributors insult our work like trash ? How can we feel the community feeling among hostile contributors ?
Do we still want to go back ?
Abuse of power : what I mean is that personal preference shouldn’t blind the moderator recruiting when there’s a contributor who knows enough the language and who wishes to help. Some moderators don’t accept people in their projects because of biased judgment. Some show partiality and base their judgment on “non professional” criteria for example if they like or not the person (like you have a good face, ok I take you : yes, even in translating area) and not if the person can do or not the job, he’s not judged on his capabilities but he’s rejected because of personal taste of the recruiter. It’s not for the safety of the project but because of personal interest. What’s the reason ? I don’t know, jealousy because the level is good, fame, vanity, ego, narcissism,… I don’t know.
The problem is how can we contribute if the recruiter doesn’t like “our face” no matter our contributions quality ?
How can we report this kind of abuse of power to Viki ? And in the case where the contributor is someone who is older than us or have substantial contributions, are we less priviliged ?
Hypocrisy : some contributors create other accounts so we don’t recognize them behind their insults and they don’t talk in English to make it harder to decrypt when they become disrespectful and rude.
So I ask Viki, is there a way for you to track their IP address and delete their true and false accounts so the real sanction can be applied ?
Because deleting 1 false account is not killing the problem in its roots, creating many false accounts, reporting the user many times is going back to point 0 each time and a waste of time and energy for everybody and above all, where’s the real punishment ? There’s a fault, the culprit should bear the consequences of insulting personally without being coward using secondary accounts. We shouldn’t let people like this acting bad while we agree in the terms of use to be respectful and that we agree to be sanctionned if we don’t respect it.
The problem is how can we contribute if some contributors harass us ?
How can we contribute if other contributors (who are supposed to help us) give their all to downgrade us, denigrate us and throw a spanner in the works ?
How can being insulted be good working conditions ?

All of these attitudes give a bad image of Vikian contributors from any external perspective. It reflects on them and on the website.
It’s good to attract contributors but if present contributors don’t welcome them but show disrespect and insult them, old or new contributors would feel discouraged and sooner or later, leave.

Now that I know a little better Viki and its community, I’m happy to have met kind contributors for my first experience on Viki.
But if we have met contributors who don’t respect us in our first experiences, would we have stayed ? Or would we have the same joy connecting on Viki and the same frequency ?
Now if we receive insulting messages saying that we don’t deserve to contribute, if we are rejected on projects not because we are not capable but because of personal taste, at some point, it is common sense to wonder if it is fair for us to be the target of such attitude and if it is not fair, if Viki can do something for us and at some point expecting a penalty. If I told this story to somebody, he will obviously ask if the culprit was punished.

Have you ever met other contributors who try to make other contributors abandon Viki because of their disrespectful attitude, their attempt to put obstacles in the way, their refusal to have a contributor participate on a project because of a false reason saying that he doesn’t have the level to do it whereas others can testify about his good level ?
I just wonder if some of you have faced the same problems ? What were your reactions and your attitude concerning this matter or what would they be ? What was your solution (or would be if you have to encounter this situation) ?

icedthy · September 20, 2016, 2:06am

Hello! I hope you had a good Monday.

To be honest, I have met people who kind of put me down. They weren’t directly rude or anything, which was nice, but they made me feel bad about myself.

The first one I encountered was a moderator of a language I speak; I wanted to be on the team to help finish the subs, but she said that her team was full and didn’t need my help. Okay, I understand, but she’s been saying this to other subbers of our language. Not only one or two, but several! It came to the point where one of the new subbers asked me (I only managed one channel of the language at the time) if I could somehow get her onto this “rude” moderator’s team. She was never added, and the subs for that drama have not been finished.

The other time when I received a PM from someone who thought I should be managing my channels better. They stated, “As the channel manager, you should be paying attention to the channel/team…” It was a bit straightforward, and I did not expect it at all. Being that I have only managed 1 licensed channel before that, I was still new to managing channels. However, I ended up apologizing and ultimately respected what they said as a lesson for me to learn… Funny thing is, this person adds the same rude moderator [from above] to their channels as they tell me to my job correctly as CM. Haha…

But overall, everyone is awfully kind to me. Many people call me “dear/honey”, which feels loving.

I’m thankful that the Viki community has been very thoughtful and nice to me.

ninafk19 · September 20, 2016, 4:26am

Hello, good evening.

Since I became a volunteer here in Viki I never had any problem. But that changed when for reasons unknown to me I was kicked out of two teams, and the two teams was the same CM. I haven’t received warning, haven’t received messages and not an explanation. I got no reaction that I thought I had done a lousy job as a translator and for this reason had been expelled. The last time I went on the team sheet I was the only one with the name crossed out, there were people who didn’t translated it had been a long time, but only I was expelled. I can’t understand why I got kicked out, maybe the CM has had his reasons-good or bad-I don’t know:/

But that was also the last time something like this happened and I hope it doesn’t happen again, all CM and channel managers-other languages-treat me very well. And I as I try to be honest, comprehensive moderator and helpful with other team members to ensure that the experiences of them as translators are good.

PS: and as a solution to the problem with the expulsion without reason, I decided to never go into a team with this CM. Sometime, maybe I change my mind, but for now this will be same.

kobolt · September 20, 2016, 8:55am

Je vais répondre en français, n’étant pas à l’aise pour écrire en anglais. Mais je vais faire des phrases simples pour ceux qui veulent comprendre en passant par un traducteur.
Je n’ai jamais été confrontée à ce que tu décris (que quelqu’un ait critiqué violemment mes traductions)… Les personnes qui subissent ça, ne devraient pas trop se sentir mal, si ce n’est pas justifié. Dans la vie de tous les jours, on rencontre aussi des gens aigris, méchants, désagréables ou de mauvaise humeur, il faut bien le gérer aussi. On peut les ignorer, si possible ne plus travailler avec eux, ou les affronter (plus difficile à faire dans le monde virtuel). Je ne pense pas que j’aurais arrêté de traduire à cause de ça.
Par contre, ne pas avoir de réponses à mes messages, c’est arrivé de très nombreuses fois, je trouve ça très impoli, je préfère qu’on réponde “non” plutôt que ne pas avoir de réponse du tout. Mais je ne suis jamais arrivé à savoir si je n’avais pas de réponse parce qu’on ne voulait pas me répondre ou par pure fainéantise. Même si je pense que dans certains cas, c’est parce que la manager ne voulait pas.
En tout cas, quelle que soit la personne concernée par ce post (la victime, je veux dire), quelle ne se sente pas trop mal et ne “se prenne pas trop la tête”, viki ne doit pas devenir un motif d’énervement, et si les remarques désobligeantes ne sont pas motivées, il suffit de les effacer, même si c’est parfois un peu difficile, c’est sûr.

irmar · September 20, 2016, 9:06am

No, I’ve never come across people who put me down.
I have written letters to people who are not good at their job, and I took special care to word it carefully and politely, assuming the person doesn’t know how bad they are (it’s often the case) and advising them to take a break until they have learned the language better. I make it a point to offer examples of what mistakes they make, so that it’s not only empty words.
Most of the time the response has been good, I’ve been thanked etc., But in some cases the person, after thanking me and humbly saying that she will take my advice into account to become better and so on, then goes on to ask for moderator positions, and many times getting them! It’s there that I get really angry, and I start writing to Channel Managers to stop this arrogant and ignorant person from filling viki with bad translations.
There are some people who should be discouraged. They are beginners in a language and they dare to offer themselves to sub? Or moderate/edit? Of course they should be discouraged, and encouraged to come back when they have become more proficient.

piranna · September 20, 2016, 11:24am

Hello icedthy !

It’s good to hear from you, it’s been a long time ! Thanks, I had a good Monday, hope it was the same for you (nice new profile pic )

Wow, your first experience on Viki was not really good xd Pity that the drama has been condamned because of this.

But was there a team (since it went unfinished) ?

It’s complicate to know who is the team when an external contributor has no indication apart the cover page who can be false or not updated.
For any outside contributor, the other way if the cover page is false, is to look at top contributors of the drama in question, but we can’t find the whole team using this tool.
The last way to know would be to ask CM but… well, it doesn’t seem conventionnal for me.
So basically, it’s impossible for outer people to know if there’s a whole team and who exactly is the team when you don’t know the moderator and his attitude.
So, you don’t really know if what being said is the truth or because of personal motives.

I just thought that if there’s actually a team, is it the same “rude” team everytime with no changes in their members from on drama to another ? Is it an exclusive team like you can’t be part of the club if you don’t show your credentials or if you are not being liked by the recruiter because of personal motives ?

For the other time, at least, you tried to be a good CM and you took these comments with an open spirit.
When you are interacting with others, you are so nice that I feel bad that people were not rude but not nice neither when thay talk to you.
There are definitely many ways to convey a message and if people could choose, it would be good if they pick the nice way xd I understand what you mean.
The end of the story is there was communication between people (hope it was not a seconday account used to send you this kind of mp) about your CM work and because of what it was told, your chances to be moderator in their projects were really thin. I don’t know how you work etc, but to exclude you like this, I feel uneasy. At least, you can ask to moderate with someone so the other accept you in his project ? It’s like giving you 0 chance in the future to collaborate together, it’s hard.
All in all, I hope that it will be better for you since you try to do well.

Yes, there are nice people on Viki that even after clashes between contributors, it’s not worth being discouraged with little pikes. It would be good if people react like this, seeing the good side but I’m not sure it will always be the case and if it’s actually the case.

piranna · September 20, 2016, 12:05pm

Hello nina !

Ouch, yes it’s quite rude. I don’t think that not answering can be reported but is it something that should be done ? I think that no, at least, the contributor deserves an answer explaining that you are no more part of the team and in the best case explaining the reasons without becoming discourteous.
Not everyone can become cm or moderator (proof is in previous messages, people are not accepted in cm roles, moderator roles because of a reason, personal or not) and when they are, at least, it’s their role to communicate with their team especially when they decide to exclude someone of the team. Even in real life, you are informed so why Viki should be an exception. It’s basic courtesy to notice people.

I don’t know the role of cm, nor moderator anymore. Sometimes, their tasks are blurred, I don’t know what it’s legit to do when you are a cm or a moderator and what you can permit not to do.
For me, their roles have more responsability so more communication needed because of this.
But it’s from my pov, so it would be good to know universally what they can do and what they shouldn’t do when they take up these positions.
They give us rules, we try to respect them but the other way, don’t they should have rules too and respect them ? So the relationship between cm, moderator, subber is more balanced, more fair ?
Should there be another guide for cm and moderator in their tasks ? It can be about what they do, how they can do some tasks. It’s the same general idea of the existing guides. It’s not something compulsory that eveyrone has to follow strictly but just a memento. What are their tasks ?

Yes, it doesn’t happen again maybe one of the reason is because you have made a wise decision to not become involved with this person anymore. But if it’s about someone who is active, who has substential contributions and many projects in which you are interested, I feel it’s quite unfair because you can’t participate in something you want without knowing why and without knowing where you can work and what they require to be accepted in these teams.
It’s great to know that you have not encounter this problem again, hope it keeps going on like this

icedthy · September 20, 2016, 12:07pm

Bonjour/bonsoir! It really has been long.

Thank you for the long reply. It’s really great knowing how people like you understand what I’m trying to convey in a message.

The moderator had no team, and I can pretty much garuntee that. She never accepts any of the same-language subbers onto her team, saying that her team is full, and she don’t need help. It’s very saddening as well because the dramas she is on doesn’t get finished 99% of the time, so the viewers of our language are not able to watch the drama in our language.
- Other subbers and I think it’s like a power-grab for her. She just wants the role of [our language] moderator on every drama so she can have more power.
Nope. It’s just one moderator. I’ve been on some of the dramas as hers as an English moderator, and there aren’t any subbers of our language added to the team.
It’s not that this person (PM about my managing) didn’t add me to their team; it’s just that they didn’t like how I was managing my team. But again, I apologized and let it go.

It does make me uncomfortable knowing that some people put others down, but as @irmar said, there are times when people need to be put down. It depends on the case, of course.

roxiehar · September 20, 2016, 1:23pm

Hi piranna,
I have had contributed numerous ways from the day I joined viki. I was part of the old viki and watched it transform into the current viki. I contribute as a segmenter, moderator, and channel manager. I do post some subtitles when I know the translation, but I am not a subtitler. I am a hardliner on the volunteer aspect of viki, which means I believe everyone should be provided the opportunity to volunteer. I am anti of teams that form and will only contribute as a team.

I have seen posts of untactful criticism of volunteers on channels. Some were directed to new and experienced volunteers. I agree with you that there are better ways to convey to the volunteer the errors found and how to correct mistakes. I don’t believe there is anything gained by being rude to or post nasty comments to volunteers. Volunteer is the key word. A volunteer is giving up their time to help keep the channel active. Many volunteers willingly give numerous hours of their precious time to viki. I agree any criticism should be expressed in a manner that will encourage the volunteer not demean to the point that the volunteer considers not contributing. I have seen good volunteers leave because tactics used by others to push them away.

Channel Managers, I can only give my perspective as a channel manager. I am probably the worse channel manager on viki. I take channel manager and moderator positions to provide opportunities for Seg 101 students to segment various videos to gain experience. Anyone that wants to volunteer on the channel, I assign them to the position requested. I don’t know the language, the total responsibility of subtitles are the moderators. When the moderator informs me a volunteer’s subtitles are all wrong, I can only conclude it is true…I don’t know the language. The area of expertise of the language is the moderator. I do frown on a moderator stating that they have a team, because it means other volunteers will be excluded. I believe in providing new volunteers an opportunity because how else will they gain experience. Oh yes they can go to the training programs, I also think it is wrong to demand that a person to has to be a graduate of a training program to volunteer.( I follow mint’s philosophy that seg 101 was created to help those who want to learn to segment, not mandate attendance to be able to segment on viki. I think that is true of any area of volunteering).

I even welcome new segmenters on my channels. I do inform the volunteer that I will critique their segmenting and offer suggestions to improve the video they segmented. Hopefully they don’t take offense of my suggestions. Every aspect of a channel is volunteers. An important aspect in any role of volunteering is to remember how it felt when you first volunteered. I think that helps in conveying positive ways to improve to the new volunteer and offers encouragement to continue. That being said, I think the popular channels because of the time demand a new volunteer would be best to gain experience on other channels prior to attempting the popular channels.

In response to channel managers not responding to emails. Remember they are volunteers also, so they may be away for a few days. Upon returning they have to sift through the pm’s. Many are other doing other roles of volunteering. I don’t think they are ignoring you intentionally.

I have found that viki that does not really step up when incidents of these types of posts occur. I know they haven’t in past. There are volunteers that think they rule viki, but don’t let them deter you from volunteering. Don’t give up volunteering piranna, work on other channels and increase your experience gaining knowledge from other subtitlers. One person’s opinion does reflect the masses of volunteers on viki.

piranna · September 20, 2016, 1:31pm

Hello kobolt !

I will answer in English so people don’t feel neglected or at least, they could understand what is being said between us, it would be a pity that any answers are not understood when you take the effort to answer, so thanks anyway to be willing to answer, it’s welcome to know what you think about it and for your help of course.

I feel exactly the same when you say that we are meant to encounter this type of bad reactions (insulting our translations even the person himself, nasty mood, disrespectful, jealous people) on everyday life basis and the solutions would be to ignore them, stop working them or to confront them. And I also don’t think that we shouldn’t stop translate if we don’t do anything bad because of such reactions directed towards us.
For me, it’s important to know our worth, our value, that offensive comments shouldn’t be heared if people who know your worth say that these comments are wrong and that they are only meant to hurt personally someone and to prevent them to continue what they do on Viki.
I hope that everyone else can react like this, like you when confronted to this situation.

The hardest part to bear is the fact that this deed is not punished or that we can’t do anything about it, the state of impotence in waiting for Viki support to do something for us. Someone attacks personally another one, defamation, slander and he doesn’t cope the true sanction. In real life, we have justice instances and legal procedures, but here the only way seems to send a report to Viki support and we just don’t know what happen after this, maybe the culprit won’t cope anything or won’t have his principal account removed and reoffend. This is the hardest part to bear.
And in the case where it’s someone who has more contributions on Viki or more membership years, is he more protected than anyone else ? The problem is would we be believed if we tell this ? Do we have the same credibility than an old member or a more active user ?

Yes, if people could just answer a simple no, it would be better than not having a reply. I share this opinion. It’s like a pending situation for a while because you ask something to them and instead of a clear situation, you feel ignored. The other part ignores so, whatever the reason, even if it’s not forbidden, it shouldn’t be done no matter the position (cm, moderator, subber etc).
You can be ignored for a little time, but, someday, the person has to stop ignoring you and answer you. It’s better late than never.
The thing is I am meant to believe that the more the active contributor (cm, moderator, subber) takes time to answer, the more he doesn’t answer me, the more I feel that it’s a wanted silence, not because they can’t but because they want. By this attitude, I am meant to believe this. Can we be lazy all the time ? Can a cm, moderator tell (or not) I’m lazy to answer you regarding their positions ?
I think of this example : It’s like asking questions to my banker and he doesn’t answer me because he’s lazy ? His position brings responsability in his tasks and in his relations with his clients, colleagues. He can’t say I am in charge of this and he doesn’t put the shoulder to the wheel.
If I think about what you said, you are right, there are people who don’t want, who can’t, who are lazy to answer and not only people who don’t want or who can’t. And this image just kept appearing on my mind : I say hi, they don’t say hi because they are lazy to be courteous. Now, I begin to think that being lazy in some cases, is like being rude too even if it’s not wanted. xd

I think that even if the translations contain errors, they shouldn’t be denigrated like this and they shouldn’t bring contributors to attack personally other contributors. The translations mistakes shouldn’t become an excuse to attack the dignity of the contributor. More than derogatory remarks, if it changes into insulting remarks from a cm, moderator, subber, these harsh attitudes should be taken care of.

Thanks for your words, I hope that if people were to encounter this situation, they could hear what you said wisely.

kobolt · September 20, 2016, 1:49pm

@piranna : I’m so jealous! Your English is so much better than mine… sniff, I can translate from English to French but write in English is really a mess without dictionary or help. Two lines are ok, but more… argh!

piranna · September 20, 2016, 2:09pm

Hello irmar !

I think that you are one of the most serious contributor that I heard of when reading your posts (it’s a compliment).
I agree with advising contributors if you can do it with respect. It would be great if it was taken care of this way.
Some contributors don’t work with the same attitude and instead of constructive advice received, it’s just bashing mistakes and other contributors, attacking their dignity.
I was asking myself : Was this meant to help them ? Where’s the point in doing this ?

Your story is like a revenge/ rebellion act or a careless act if I ask myself : why doing this ? I agree with you that contributors who do this kind of act out of personal motives and not for the safety of the projects, should stop doing this. And if they don’t stop, someone has to stop them to save the project.
You did what you think was the best for the project and not for personal motives. I don’t think you insult or speak to them rudely in your choice of words.
Some contributors put the project’s safety in their second or last priorities, so it’s against this kind of attitude that I can’t approve.
I agree with you that some contributors don’t act wisely and are blind to the reality, so other contributors with kind intent and not personal motives should tell them that hey, mate, it’s not to put you in a bad light, but I just want to give a hand for this project etc…
But if it’s (old or new) contributors (cm, moderator, subber) saying hey, it’s just trash, you don’t deserve to translate. This is another story.

Thanks for reminding us that sometimes, putting a stop to contributors in a respectful way is not because of personal motives but for the safety of the project.

piranna · September 20, 2016, 2:51pm

Chao em / chao chi (sorry for no accents xd)

You have been learning French, I see, I see
This is also great to hear about your experiences and know more about you ! Strong girl

Omg, and there’s no solution to this ? For 1 drama, it’s still ok but if it’s many dramas, at least, something should be done. Maybe (I’m being paranoid) she’s from another competitor website xd or someone who doesn’t want these dramas fully translated.
I hope there will be a solution to this situation, it can’t keep going on like that.
Abuse of power signal There must be a way to prove this silent abuse of power. The thing is abuse of power is done without insulting, so it’s harder to say that someone is prejudiced, there’s not really a “bad action” but it’s not a good thing neither. It’s exactly your story when they refuse to recruit someone, no “bad action” in apparence to refuse someone but it’s not good neither since it’s because of personal motives such as power monopoly as you said. How to prove this to others ?
How 1 person can destroy a project and others’ reputation… Sigh. Are we on Viki or in some drama ? xd
I think that between saying I don’t like but do as you think is good and between I don’t like but do as I want you to do, it’s not the same thing. When I suggest things, I don’t intent to impose them, it’s just an idea, the person is free to take it or leave it.
If people think that you should manage this way : Why ?
What are their reasons and why your managing is not good enough from their point of view ? And do you think that they are right in some aspects when you compare your way of managing and their way of managing ? And who is the person in your eyes ? Is their comment legit or not ? Why would they send you this type of message, if it’s for the project, ok I will take advice but if it’s because they have something against me personally, I would think twice before taking the advice. All comments should be taken into account if it’s contructive otherwise they don’t help you.
We can’t have 1 way of managing but we can have advices and decide to take it or not. The most important is that the project goes smoothly and that can be done in multiple ways of managing.

There are different way to say stop to someone and for me, no matter the reason, one of the way shouldn’t be stepping on others’ dignity, insulting their contributions even if they contain mistakes. I think of this example : when a teacher grades papers, he’s not insulting. It shows that we can ask someone to correct themselves without being rude.

piranna · September 20, 2016, 6:19pm

Hello roxiehar !

Ok, so I am not crazy when I say this, it’s reassuring and nuts to know that some contributors have developed tactics to push away other contributors through the time on Viki. Are we employees in a company, do we gain money from this ? Do we have to develop strategies to our own benefit ? Is it worth it ?

I think it’s the first time I hear about a contributor saying he is against the concept of “team” xd
Since I am from the new wave of newcomers on Viki, I always know Viki functioning with this concept of “teams”, I don’t know another way, how it was before and if it was better or not. I think that since it’s the most common way of functioning on Viki and that in guides, we hear about team work and we have a wall of the team for each drama, it becomes the norm to have teams ? So I didn’t question this aspect before but now that I meet an anti-team, better to ask questions xd
I can’t defend teams concept or not teams concept since I don’t know what would be the difference ?

What do you mean exactly by being anti-teams ? Do you mean you are against preformed teams that don’t change from one drama to another and you have to show your credentials ? Or a team who doesn’t change its members but don’t accept neither ?
Or you mean you are against limit in numbers of contributors and selection in recruiting people ?
Or you mean something else ? Can you tell me more about your stance ?

I hope that all can have adopt your attitude to encourage people when they have comments to say and not making losing faith in what they do and in themselves and their capabilities.
I saw a post of contributors saying their goodbyes to Viki on this forum. There must be good comments and bad comments, I don’t know, I didn’t dare to read it completely in case of it makes me do something rash xd

Channel manager : What do you mean by “worst” ? Have you received complains about your way of managing (meaning you reserve your channels to seg trainings) ? I’m not a CM so I don’t know what kind of problems you have to face, but why is it bad that training students work on your channels ? If it’s a program to train segmenters, and there’s a sensei to correct it afterwards, is there a problem ? It’s still segged correctly at the end, no ?
Moreover, some shows need segmenters so it’s like killing two birds with one stone xd
After, what can people complain about it ? Is it because it’s an aired show ? Or it’s too long ?

So from what I understand, it’s that you pick the first one asking you the position of moderator. That’s it ?
Genuine question, not offensive tone : So, how can you know if the moderator has enough knowledge in the native language ? Do you ask for feedback from other contributors after that you accept a moderator ?
I think if any CM doesn’t know a language, he can ask to other moderators in who he has enough faith in their impartial judgment and knwoledge in his native language to ask if the moderator saying “this subber makes mistakes” is right or he is trying to push away someone because of personal motives.
Because how can you know if the moderator has good intentions towards a subber ?

The thing is sometimes, subbers are excluded not because it’s full team, but because it’s personal motives and not because this contributor doesn’t know enough the language.
I don’t know the reason of “full teams”. Maybe it would be a hassle to moderate ? But where would it be more complicated ? I honestly don’t see. If someone can enlighten me.

Omg, segmentation… This is my nightmare. I have my difficulties in segmentation like everyone. From what I am learning, I can give you as a student feedback that without these training programs, I would do something not clean so I feel sorry for the subber who has to put up with my segments. Really. Just remembering my first video in a training program, hehe this training was necessary for me.
I would really like to segment at least correctly without having to learn at training programs. But from a student point a view, I can say that it’s not something that I can learn alone without feedback, corrections and training.
The rules they have put on their guides seem legit when I’m in a subber shoes :
One day, I did subbing on bad segmented videos, voices cut in strange moments. It was really disturbing to sub it, I think that some would have given up on subbing it because it took too much time. So from that day forwards, I saw more meaning in these programs, we need them if we want to segment so subbers can translate it without loosing too much time.
It also discourages other contributors to have bad segmented videos to join a project.

I think I agree with you if anyone can segment without having to graduate from these training programs, it would be awesome and if we can be accepted like that but the truth is if there’s no one to correct us when we don’t know very well the ropes, it won’t be easy to sub and the viewing experience is a little off when your subtitles don’t appear at the right time.

I wish to stay in these programs forever because at least, my segments get corrected and I receive feedback and I really appreciate that someone has the brilliant idea to teach us something on Viki.
Now, if someone can learn segmenting without feedback, correction, training (this is what these programs provide) : I want to know how they can do it so others can do it too.

I just read your next paragraph so I correct myself : if a segmenter knows the ropes and he’s willing and has the time to substitute himself as a "sensei"or a “helper” (critics, suggestions) : that’s awesome too and it’s great that you can do it like that. But are all CM segmenters ? And they seem so busy so correct new segmenters… I hope all could do like you, there would be more people to segment.
If it’s not the CM, maybe find someone on the team who can do it, but who and who will have the time ? For me, we find these people on training programs.

I agree with you that a delay of a few days or a few weeks is ok.
Some active CM, moderators (inactive members because of real impossibility like natural disasters, family matters, uni focusing, career focusing who can’t spend much time on Viki or simply because they don’t have anymore the same passion are not considered active) never answer (not 1 answer).
There are limits to delay an answer after many pm sent (not 1 PM).
I did found some good excuses for active CM, moderators who don’t answer but after 1 month or 6 months, I think you will also agree with me, that there’s no hope to receive an answer.
So what is the role of CM and moderator… What are their tasks ?
I posted one question above, I repost it here since this question kept coming back on my mind
Can I know what a CM do ? I don’t know the role of cm, nor moderator anymore. Sometimes, their tasks are blurred, I don’t know what it’s legit to do when you are a cm or a moderator and what you can permit not to do.
For me, their roles have more responsability so more communication needed because of this.
But it’s from my pov, so it would be good to know universally what they can do and what they shouldn’t do when they take up these positions.

Aww Thanks a lot ! I hope people who encounter this kind of attitude can listen to your words.
Of course, I would never give up because of something like this, we have met worst situations than this, so I won’t hear harsh comments from people who don’t know my worth.
Sure one opinion doesn’t reflect everyone’s opinion, but sometimes, it’s just 1 person that can hurt many others and make them abandon. So, I want to say to people who are demotivated by these contributors that even though we are meant to encounter this kind of bad attitude, we shouldn’t give up for them and let them decide if we should keep going on or not. Just keep doing what you like. Proof is the awesome answers from everyone here.

piranna · September 20, 2016, 6:40pm

Na you are not jealous, you are envious I use reverso too to find words in my answers and I take much much time to answer to make less mistakes because I don’t speak english in everyday life xd but I still answer because everyone takes their time to answer and answers with good examples, good arguments, it’s always a different pov to discover.
I want to show that I really appreciate sharing thoughts and experiences with them. I just doesn’t want to be a silent reader and tell them what goes on my mind reading their answers, it’s more like a real exchange,

PS : I read a lof of English novels on Wattpad (reading mobile app), maybe reading in English (news, books) , reading them out loud, underlining the words you don’t know or trying to write a small paragraph about a topic that you are interested in can make you last longer each time in writting in English. I know that I learn much vocabulary when trying to write about a topic in particular : it can be about anything like what are the contents of this article, a summarize, your opinion, advantages, disadvantages, stories you make up, you diary…

PS2 : There are things that I envy too, like when people can understand a language, etc… Each one has something to envy xd

sophie2you · September 20, 2016, 8:50pm

don’t you mean abusers?

xomachi · September 21, 2016, 2:06am

I’ll just point out one of the reasons I don’t think this will happen; a lot of households probably have multiple accounts (like one for me, one for my sister, one for my mom, etc.) and they’ll all be under the same IP.

I’d bet that some potential volunteers have gotten turned off because they received either a rude response or no response at all. Though, I’m pretty sure that anyone who was genuinely already interested in subbing or whatever would have just tried again with another channel. At least, I like to think that, because judging the entire community on one interaction doesn’t seem right.

Maybe I don’t interact with too many users or I’m just forgetful, but I don’t think I’ve ever really come across contributors who go out of their way to intentionally be rude or to put others down. I think some members may come across um, maybe overbearing at times, but they mean well and it’s also kind of a testament to how serious they are about the work.

I’m not sure how I feel about preformed teams, now that you’ve got me thinking about it. My initial reaction is that it’s sort of against the kind of platform Viki aims to be, but… At the same time, if there’s a tight-knit team that does a good job, I also wonder if it’s all that bad. I’d understand the resistance to adding team members that maybe don’t hold up to their standards or something.

ninafk19 · September 21, 2016, 5:17am

Accurate! The CM has teams of dramas that I like! But I wonder if it is not tagged me on your ’ blacklist ’ and will not but accept me. This is bad …
But I think as I am busy-with other teams and with the University-will be difficult even if I want to go into other teams. At least for now.

irmar · September 21, 2016, 6:24am

As a newbie segmenter, who has just completed the Ninja program (waiting for my exam video results right now) I have to strongly disagree.
When I remember how I was when I was still in Sandbox and Levels 1, 2, how many errors I still made after checking two and three times, thinking “oh now it’s perfect”, and oh no it wasn’t, it, far from it… And, although presumably less, how many I still make today… I shudder to think of a person like that who’s given a position of responsibility in a show.
And I don’t think I was the most stupid student in the course: despite my mistakes, I always got words of praise from my senseis, so I’m pretty sure everybody is all more or less like that in their beginning levels.

If I am Channel Manager, I will definitely ask for people who have completed the training program. Even supposing there is a segment quality editor to clean up their mess, is it fair to give this person such a huge and tiresome job? From my experience so far, correcting other people’s segments can take just as long as making them from scratch.

You can be a subtitler without training if you know the language well enough, and have read the Guidelines sheet. But not a segmenter. It’s like “giving the opportunity” to drive without a licence, when the untrained person can be a public hazard causing accidents. Segmenting is not the same as other areas of volunteering. Bad segmenting can make life difficult for all language subtitling teams and for the viewers.

No, dear beginner volunteer, If you want to be a segmenter that bad, then put your lazy ass down and train to do things correctly so that you can be proud of a job well done.

This is my opinion, of course, anybody is free to disagree.

piranna · September 21, 2016, 1:21pm

Hello xomachi !

You are right ! It would deprive other people. Maybe, if they can send the same warning PM to the same household saying they have detected someone under this IP address who broke their rules (they delete the secondary account) and that if it happens again (like insulting twice after the 1st warning) they will delete all accounts under this IP address.
Normally, if the contributor has good intentions and doesn’t insult other contributors, he won’t be afraid of this.
If he is afraid of this punishment, he won’t do the same mistake anymore after receiving 3 warnings.

But I think you are still right, because if in the same household, people don’t get along well, it would cause more problems within the household.

I agree with you that we can’t judge the entire community after 1 bad experience, 1 bad interaction. But just 1 bad experience, 1 person can make you quit the entire community.
I will talk about my personal experience since I kind of feel concerned about this : I think that the first impression is important for me when you meet someone and for some others, it might be too (same when you meet a new community). About potential volunteers you mentionned who might have gone through the same jungle as me and first impression :
I would have given up at my first attempt back in April this year because I sent many PM (CM, moderators) and almost no one answers me after days, weeks (sometimes never answer until now), or when they answer, I was a little afraid by the seriousness of their response and that it would be more pression or time running and not enough relaxing for me. The consequences of this first interaction were I was self-conscious and doubting about myself, if I could do it after receiving serious tone messages.
So the replies when I ask to be part of the team impact my decision to be staying or not in any team (and here it was impacting my decision to stay or not on Viki)
And my first failed attempts to have an answer made me thought that since I had 0 sub under my arms, nor big projects, no one would want me.
(I thought this because I didn’t know if it works like that on Viki or not when you just arrive on this website, you don’t know if people will select you or not, and on some aired shows, they select really good subbers and not subbers who can translate and who make many mistakes based on their own criteria)
So after my first interactions, I thought that I had to have a resume of many projects or something like that to participate in aired shows which interest me. Maybe after having this resume, CM and moderators would finally answer me even if it’s not positive.

In truth, this first impression didn’t appeal me to continue on Viki. Just 1 person gave me a “Yes” with a no too serious tone and here I am. Just 1 person and his little team to make me continue at this time. So, if I haven’t met this person at this time, I shouldn’t be here, seriously. I think that I would have quit trying because people just don’t open their doors (no answer) or when they do, you need to follow with stricter rules in my opinion (serious tone answer). So having met this person on first attempts was pure luck.

Now that I think about it, just 1 person can make you stay and just 1 person can make you leave. I mean even if you like subbing and some people, if you want to sub on projects that are managed, moderated by people who don’t open their doors or are rude or are really strict and you think you can’t relax enough… You won’t be subbing what you like, so in some extent, you will ask yourself, I want to sub this, I can’t or it gives me big headache so why I am here if not relaxing ?
Sometimes, you can’t do many projects because you don’t get along with 1 person who appears to manage, moderate many projects. So if people just want to sub what they like and they don’t want to sub what they don’t like, they can’t participate in these projects because of the bad interactions that they had previously with some contributors or because the recruiter doesn’t like “your face” or from what they have heard about the reputation some contributors have built about themselves.

My personal choice : most of the time, I don’t sub projects that I like but I sub projects with people that I feel good with. This is what I decided after these multiple encounters with others.
And some people after these mutliple encounters would have chosen to quit contributing.
Sometimes, some people woudn’t want to continue after 1 bad experience because they are angry at some contributors or they are hurt by some contributors who are not punished or don’t change their ways or don’t say sorry.
Some people would stay.
It really depends on the person.

I wish like you that people would stay even after bad interactions. But I also wish that something is done about this bad behaviour (disrespect, discourtesy, abuse of power) causing some not ill-intentioned people to quit.

You are lucky for not having met people who put others down intentionally with “trash” words…They do it behind close doors so they are not caught and abuse of power as they want.
I don’t talk about people who “maybe overbearing at times”, as you said, it’s proof that they are serious. I don’t mix people when we have insulting people with “trash” words and attacking contributors’ dignity.