Have you been curious about what segmenters do and how we make the cuts for subtitles?
Come over to Discord and watch. See if you’d like to become a segmenter too! I work on several shows a day, usually in the mornings to mid-day. Mountain Time.
Feb 2, 2022 @ 12:52 PM MT
Here’s a link It’s offline right now. https://discord.gg/mdhAWTJ8?event=938519948983144488
Fascinating how many techniques there are.
I’ve been wanting to ask you; why I see so many 1 (one) second segments now in the page of the subbers/also seggers? Is this a new thing in segging now? Back in my segging time…1 second segs were strictly prohibited. It’s not like much can be done in that one second seg.
What are 1 sec. segs used for? I know it must have a purpose since I have seen it in many different profile page. I mean, all they can utter in one sec. is maybe… [ah?]
I’m just curious, and if you know and can, I will appreciate an answer.
Thank you,
WANDA
The minimum size is one second. But that is a hassle if there are too many short segments in a row. I like to combine shorter segments with adjacent segments but some segmenters want one sentence per segment. I actually prefer to read 4 seconds because it gives me time to look back at the screen, but that all depends on the dialog.
Too many short segments in a row will create gaps, and this gaps are terrible bc it makes the video to constantly jump. Besides, not much dialogue can go inside a one second segment. This was so strictly prohibited in the past, and now is allowed here, but that doesn’t make too much sense to me.
I wonder where is @lacruiser; the number one, best teacher (sensei?), in segmenting in the NSSA Academy. I also wanted to ask @dasfl49, but I see one second segs in his page and he’s very busy. I haven’t checked @tish_afi either, but they are both one of the best segmenters in dramas /movies, and teachers (sensei?) here at RVIKI site.
No wonder I was seeing the ‘‘jump’’/ ‘‘hiccup’’ in some scenes as I watched several recent dramas. That explains that for now. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer me, and enjoy your weekend.
Hi angelight ^^
I’m also a segmenter and although 1 sec is the minimun segment size it isn’t encouraged by the NSSA to create segments that small, the average recomended segment size is still 4 s. There are situations where 1 s or just a tiny bit longer segments are needed (the person just say yes, no, a name or something really short and nothing after this, or to separate different speakers) but they are quite rare.
No wonder I was seeing the ‘‘jump’’/ ‘‘hiccup’’ in some scenes as I watched several recent dramas.
I’m wondering if you may have seen some pressubed show that wasn’t A&C’ed yet. The pressubs comes with many short segments and a lot of gaps.
Oh, thank you so much for all your information. I am so happy to know that this is not the new norm in segmenting here, and the jump/hiccup had a logical explanation after all.
I am so relieved to know that you guys are editing those pre-subbed dramas that have mini/micro gaps in them because of the short segments. Now, if you really must make the 1 second segs in some dramas; I do hope they are adding the extension at end when possible in order to eliminate those annoying mini/micro gaps ( also obvious jump on video screen).
There is really no other solution than to create in some dramas the 1 sec. segments? I think this new approach needs some more research done. Back in the times, I did 3 second segments that’s how small they could be, and it worked well.
But in all honesty I can’t make sense of 1 second segs in dramas, and since I don’t have access to segment timer anymore; I can’t even picture how that looks like because is definitely a micro/mini gaps in my eyes. But seggers know best; so I know is all taken care of by all of you guys.
Thank you so much for your hard work!
Hi Wanda,
The “hiccups” that you refer to are caused by the microgaps that we see when two segments are not properly knitted together. And I know how annoying that can be to the viewer! Also, they can appear regardless of segment length. Viki has licensed more shows lately that come to us already segmented and subbed. Unfortunately, not all of them are done well. We can often not only find numerous microgaps, but a lack of the segment extensions that you mentioned as well. We’ve got to address all of that through adjustments. In addition to that, we combine short segments to the extent that we can in order to avoid long chains of choppy subtitles. Of course, sometimes we have to split segments, too, because they’re overly long and wordy. (Perhaps a certain Venezuelan telenovela comes to mind?)
Anyway, although one-second segments are the minimum allowed, we should and do try to avoid them when possible, and especially avoid having a string of them together. Yes, you will find the occasional one-second segments in my work, but that is usually a one-word subtitle or one in which any of the alternative segmenting choices would be worse. It was good to see your thoughts on this. Take care and be well!
@dasfl49
It was good to see your thoughts on this.
I’m so happy to hear from you after such a long while. It has been a long time since the Venezuelan Nightmare we worked through, way back. Thank you so much for also in a way, answering all my questions right here. I wanted for a while so bad to ask you; why you were also (and many other seggers) doing what I call the the 1 second ‘‘hiccup’’ segment. lol
I’m glad that mystery is over for me now, and I can feel reassured that it has been thought out properly, so we won’t see future ‘‘hiccup’’ segments for long in the dramas. I just wished here at this site they could do like these other sites that the subs are short but detailed too (I call them ‘‘the wonderful new one liners’’).
It’s so pleasant for me to read this short, but still detailed subtitles. No longer on Netflix or Prime they have these endless litany of words as subtitles, and it brings so much joy into my life as a viewer. I mean there are subtitles between 2 characters that will require more than one line, but certain things are unavoidable. I really wished they could shorten the subtitles here at RViki (if possible).
Those very long subtitles done here in some dramas/movies really turn me off when I’m watching dramas because I know it can be done. We can simplify/shorten the subtitles without losing the real/true meaning in them. I’ve seen it done already, and that is why I advocate for them here. I hope you guys can work that magic too since that method also requires less segmenting, too. The loadwork will also become lighter no matter how many different projects you guys have to work on.
Enjoy your weekend. Stay safe. Thanks again!
Abrazo cibernético,
Wanda.
Except for Viki volunteers, no one cares about the micro and mini gaps.
The flashing of subs doesn’t bother Any one.
They do, actually. Its disconcerting to watch on sites that have flashing subs. Its not extremely annoying, but when you get used to Viki’s standard, it becomes noticeably irritating.
you can only notice them, if you are a viki volunteer.
other wise you cannot
i have seen many not so properly cut segments and with lots of micro and mini gaps, i only noticed these when i started working with the srt file, while watching the movie everything seemed fine.
and later realised that viki has spoiled me a lot hahaha
I’m not really agreeing with you about that to be honest.
A few months ago, being myself a segmenter, I asked a few people who’re not that much into dramas about it (because I was curious about what people not knowing about Viki segmentation could think), showing them a scene of one drama which is both on Viki and another site, and all of them told me the same. They were appreciating more watching Viki subs because of no micro/minigaps.
So I can only agree with @vivi_1485
no, I am not talking about dramas.
im just saying this in general and especially with the hollywood movies in which i have noticed them, very recently
Well, people don’t care as long as they can watch what they want (if there’s not several places to watch something), some will not even bother with subs and will watch dubbed in their native languages, so they won’t notice subs flashing.
But even when I was not a volunteer, I noticed those gaps and it was bothering me.
yes, thats what i mentioned earlier, viki’s standards spoiled me hahahhah
Yes, some people conform with so little in life, and that is why they end up with crappy things in the long run. Micro-gaps are ANNOYING bc the screen will jump/hiccup out of nowhere. I know for a fact MANY other people do/will get annoyed by them. So if you’re suggesting I’m not ‘‘any one’’ to count as one that get bothers by it; you are so wrong.
First, you can’t generalize that it doesn’t bother Any one (anyone) because it bothers me, and a whole lot more people: I bet you. There is no need to constantly see this ‘‘hiccups’’ while watching a drama. That idea of having 1 second segments as a segmenter would have bother the hell out of me bc I know doing that is very wrong. Whose idea was that: I would LOVE to know.
Like @porkypine said: I can’t even imagine for her as a segger to have to deal with 3 or 4 consecutive 1 second seg. That is to me a nightmare for those poor seggers dealing with that unnecessarily. A bad idea is a bad idea, and in my opinion 1 sec segs are the worst idea anyone had here.
In general it seems to me that ‘quality’ here is going down the ‘‘drain’’ and I say this bc that mask and tote bag, the quality in the fabric looks very cheap. The devoted, caring, hard workers volunteers here at viki deserved better than that. In my opinion, and if anything, is an insult to the volunteers as a token of appreciation for wonderful work done by them/whether as subber/segger etc. they are worth so much more than those cheap looking items.
Wow, you guys have been busy since I was here last.
Many shows come pre-subbed now. There are many instances where several people are talking very fast. Those segments can be as small as .2 to .4 seconds each in quick succession.
We have to look at them and see which line goes with which person and combine them into larger segments as a two-speaker subtitle inside one segment.
That is another reason there may be many short 1-second subtitles. Many words by multiple speakers in a short duration. We only have a maximum of two speakers per segment otherwise the subss would fill up the screen. The odd short, .2s segment ‘orphan’ is also why you may find a segment with has 1 longer line with a short answer appended to it.
Segmenters do not change the translations of subtitles. That is for the Translation Editor to do. Besides adjusting the timing, Segmenters combine short segments and paste the subs of short segments together and remove excess HTML junk to make it fit within the character limitation. We don’t touch the subtitles in segments that we only adjust the timing.
Wow, it seems to me that the work of segmenters is getting tougher here to do. Thanks for all the added info since it makes me appreciate much more the work you guys do, and I’ll overlook the ‘‘hiccup’’ from now on.
I know seggers don’t add subtitles in the segments bc they are not supposed to do it anyway (some may do although not suppose to do so). I should know since a chief segmenter took all the captions I did in English, and she managed to put them in her name; like she herself did them.
I did copy the evidence of what was done to me, but I never reported her because I just put the work (subs) I did, back in my name. But that’s ‘‘water under the bridge now.’’ I forgave the person, and is over and done with.
@angelight313_168
You misunderstood me again!!
I’m not talking about viki’s segments and process but the other platforms in which I work for.
They have lots of micro and mini gaps and not perfectly timed segments and I didn’t notice them when I watched the movie initially, but once I started working on the file, I noticed the timing of the segments.