Dealing with New Subbers

Contributing Subtitling
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Hi guys~

I was a little hesitant to make this thread because I didn’t know how to word it without making it sounds rude. Before I start, I want you to know that as a new moderator, I’m in genuine need of advice and that I don’t want to discourage anyone from volunteering.

A project that I’m currently moderating has a team of around 7 people and only one person besides myself is an active contributor (she’s also the editor of the team). I’m not upset with the inactive members because I understand that they are most likely prioritizing other projects.

Anyhow, since the team’s editor is taking time off for health reasons, I decided to take over her role so that she wouldn’t be burdened by the amount of work that will be piled up by the time she returns. As I was editing a section by one of the inactive members, I realized that it was full of mistakes. Not grammatical errors or anything, but wrong genders of characters, vague translation and above that, she didn’t know the name of the show, despite the fact that we’ve been working on it for several months and are approaching the finale!

From the very beginning, I’ve provided a team spreadsheet with our tracking chart, character names translated from English to Arabic as well as the team rules written in both English and Arabic. This specific subber hasn’t been following the rules and seldom uses the spreadsheet. Usually, either me or the editor has to fill her progress in for her.

Since I was afraid that directly messaging her might make her feel offended, upset or discouraged from participating, I would put reminders in the weekly team message telling everyone not to forget to use the spreadsheet and follow the rules and spellings mentioned there, but she still doesn’t follow any of it.

Since the show’s almost over, I’m going to let it go, but if something like this happens in a future project, what should I do?

Thank you all in advance.
Sara

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I had a subber in my team that made use of bing translate and made quite a few mistakes in spelling and interpunction. I send her a pm asking her to not use bing translate anymore and I told her to which parts of subbing she had to pay attention to. And I mentioned she could always ask if she had further questions. She replied that she wouldnt’ use bing anymore and she would give more attention to her work. So I think it could help to pm the girl that’s subbing in your team.

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As much as I understand that sentiment, I think you have to be direct if they don’t catch onto the hints you’re leaving. Most people will probably not take offense, and I think they are generally apollogetic for not being aware or not following guidelines.

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@xomachi I messaged her directly once about not finishing her part despite having started it three days earlier and I felt like I kind of scared her because she seemed overly apologetic in her response. I felt a little guilty afterwards even though I know I did the right thing.

I tend to be really sensitive when it comes to other people’s feelings >.< I’m also younger than most people I’ve met on Viki, so it feels kind of disrespectful to call out my elders.

@emmelie96 Do you have any advice for how to word the message so that it doesn’t sound like I’m scolding her? I really don’t want her to be upset or to dislike subbing because of me.

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As a subber I don’t take offense for feedbacks regarding spellings, grammar and word choices, using the same terms as everybody else, etc. If I get a message like that I wouldn’t think anything. For other extra things like whether subject-verb should always be or not be inverted for questions, going back to find flashbacks to use the exact same wording, it is also a matter of each moderator’s style.

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I told her that I was writing this to help her become aware of the way she subbed.If she made mistakes that I had to correct, I would get the credit for that sub and not she. That’s not how it’s supposed to be and I also don’t want it like that. When you send the message explain why you’re sending it and I’m sure she’ll understand.

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Okay, thank you so much ^~^

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Hi, Sara! How have you been?

I have dealt with this before, and I know how you feel. Don’t worry about sounding rude or anything. What I would do in this case is immediately take her off the team, and send her a message. You should keep it professional as you talk to her about her mistakes and remind her that what she did was wrong. If you keep it professional while you’re calm and understanding, she will feel less offended. I will send you a message of what I sent to a subber who was having a similar problem :slight_smile:

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Hi Thy~! It’s been a while. I’ve been pretty stressed out lately but other than that I’ve been well :smile:

I think taking her off the team without a direct warning first would be a little too much. Honestly, for all I know she might not read the weekly team message, so I don’t want to be unfair in any way.

I’d appreciate the sample message, though. Thanks ^~^

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Right! It depends on the severity of what they’re doing. :slight_smile:

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I am the person who gives extensive feedback. And when I say extensive, a full list of the most important mistakes and why they are mistakes.
I try to word it in the most polite way possible, without hurting people’s feelings, but I always make sure to say exactly what I want to say (in the less hurtful way), not leaving anything.
Most of them respond in a positive way, thanking me for my time and asking for forgiveness for giving me so much extra work correcting and explaining to them. So I ask them to have a Skype session with me so that I can explain more easily and in depth why things are not good and how they could be made better.

I was very inspired from the feedback style of the Ninja Academy, where they pointed out the mistakes, what to do about them and then let you correct them yourself. In some cases it’s easier like that. For instance, if the person keeps ignoring formatting rules and does not copy standard sentences from the spreadsheet, I don’t correct, but point out where (sometimes I even put asterisks on the subtitle to be corrected), and tell her to look again at the formatting rules etc and make the corrections herself.

I had to write a harsh message to somebody who used to be very good and lately got lazy, using google translate, guessing things instead of looking them up, not checking her work once more etc.
I felt very bad doing it, but on the other hand, it took me three times as much to correct her translations than it would to translate the piece myself, so I thought it wasn’t fair.

A good method is, instead of attacking and saying “you are this and this and that”,

  1. say “you did this and that”, which is accusing the behaviour and not the person and
  2. speak of what you feel, how her behaviour is making you feel.

This is less aggressive, and it is always a good method even in verbal conversations, so as not close the communication door and to avoid making them into bitter name-calling fights.

In that specific case I went to the point of writing something like
"I understand that we are all volunteers here, and we’re doing it for pleasure as a hobby; this said, however, when we take on a project we commit on doing our best and follow viki’s and the moderator’s requirements, to ensure that the viewers have quality subtitles.
I always tell all of you that if you have any real-life problem and you cannot translate for a while, or you want to quit completely for any reason, it’s no problem, just tell me and I’ll arrange for someone else to take your place, or do it myself. But doing a sloppy work is not okay.
Therefore, when I see that you used automatic translation, that you didn’t bother to make a one minute search on the online dictionaries I provided on the spreadsheet, that you never looked at your work again to correct typos and formatting mistakes, I felt insulted, I felt you were spitting on my face. I felt that you were saying to yourself ‘Who cares, why bother, there is a stupid slave editor who is going to sweat and clean up after me’.

In your case, you should have written a personal message as soon as you noticed her not following the rules, directed her to where to go (assuming that she just didn’t know and she did it out of ignorance, which of course isn’t true, but this is so that you don’t hurt her pride), and tell her to correct her last work before attempting to translate a new piece. When she does, insist on everything being done correctly, and, just as the Ninja senseis, not let her move on to the next assignment until she corrects everything.
Make clear that this is the prerequisite for staying in the team.

That’s what I would do. Of course every person approaches things in her own way.
Hope this helped.

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First of all of course you need to PM the person or else nothing changes.
Some will understand and stick to your rules others remain to not care and do what they want. I noticed it can also help to explain why you have certain rules so they will see the bigger picture.

For the ones who remain not following the rules you can either decide to kick them out of your team or just keep editing her work.

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Hey !

Don’t stress about it ! Watch funny dramas, listen to music and dance, go out with friends to think about others things than Viki.
I think after taking some time for you, you will feel better, less undecisive and more able to take decisions from stepping back.
When I feel that I’m frustrated about something on Viki, I just go out of it to think clearly and come in again after.
I hope that you will feel better :sunny:

Since I didn’t encounter this situation because I’m not a moderator of big projects, I don’t know if I can be of great help. I think that you can either tell any subber who don’t respect instructions or not tell the subber.

  • If you don’t tell : I see it like a lose/win situation for you/the subber (in general)
    If you have enough time and courage to correct the subber, then why not ? But time is not illimited if you study or work. Talking about feelings, you might feel unhappy, frustrated about it and just repress it towards the subber. Is it a good way to manage this situation and keep your feelings bottled up ? I don’t know but I know that for me, it’s not a long term solution if I encounter this situation because I will break down someday or may not want to work with the same person again.

  • If you tell : I see it like a win/win situation for you/the subber.
    For me, the most important when anyone encounters problems in your team is to communicate. This is what working in team means, communication in good and bad things.
    Tell her : the problem, what are the consequences for you and maybe for her, the solution.
    Just be sincere, respectful and tell the subber with some real examples of her subbing to show that you have concrete proof. Yeah, the risk is that you might discourage her and make her quit but you just don’t know how they will react. If they react like I’m hurt or I don’t want to listen to you, then it is not a problem coming from you but the other part if they don’t want to understand their mistakes or if they can’t take it with hindsight. One of the goals of pointing mistakes is to improve and not to critizice nor to make someone quit, otherwise I would have already done it.


    Just do as you want knowing yourself, the time you have, the time it will take you to edit, evaluating the risk that she might quit, measuring the “risk” that she might listen and improve.
    If you think you can handle it, willing to cover all of her mistakes, then do it.
    If not, you obviously have to communicate with her and find a solution together.

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Hi Sara, how are you?

Currently I am in problem somewhat similar to yours. I am a manager of a team in which only two people have not contributed in any episode. I don’t want to discourage anyone, I send notices and reminders on the worksheet. But I have to remind myself that the progress of the project is important and if someone can’t commit to help this can be a nuisance. So to be fair I decided to warn the members of the team that until the episode 20 who has not translated any part should be kicked off the team. I sincerely hope that doesn’t come to expel anyone, in any case I’m going to talk with them.
I hope this idea can help you in the future
See you. :smile:

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I don’t feel it’s a win for the subber, because she will never get to improve.
It’s like: giving someone a fish feeds them for one day, but teaching them how to fish feeds them for life.
(bad example for me to use, since I’m a vegetarian, but hey, that’s the standard example for these things)

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I agree with the fish metaphor, I prefer to receive a pole fish xd But there are people who prefer to receive fishes everyday.
What I mean is that it depends on pov : you can encounter people who think like that : “I know obviously that I don’t respect the rules but it doesn’t really matter, if the moderator can edit me and says nothing about it, it might mean that it’s no big deal. Even if it might not mean a “no big deal”, if nobody tells me that something is wrong in what I do, it means that I can continue, it’s great for me, I won’t have to complicate things by reading her rules and trying to correct myself, I will just be keeping doing that : subbing as I want, it’s easier like that, I just sub it freely”
What they win : they don’t spend more efforts, they don’t have to correct themselves, they don’t have to readproof themselves, gain of time for them etc… Humans are lazy by nature, I’m an example xd. This is what I mean because people don’t think the same way :grin:

Just my pov among many others on the matter, not something where I am against anyone or anything. I don’t want to create a ruckus because my favorite color is blue but other’s favorite color is white and because I paint my walls in blue but others paint theirs in white. Different povs/ways or opposite povs/ways don’t mean I’m against the person in herself or against what they do/manage or that I’m trying to impose something. I just want to talk genuinely about this subject.

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I agree with you that there are different points of view. It would be good, however, for both parties to be clear about what the terms are beforehand, to avoid misunderstandings.
If a subtitler knows that as a moderator I like a certain degree of responsibilty and commitment from the people on my team, and his/her idea of work here is taking it easy and putting in as little effort as possible, then obviously he/she will avoid me. And I will avoid him/her.
So it’s good to say honestly one’s views and make it known, so that people can make an informed decision.

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Exactly! As terrible as it is, some subbers only care about increasing their contribution count in any possible way.

(For the record, I don’t think the subber in question is that kind of person because her translations show a good amount of effort. Her only problem is not following team guidelines).


UPDATE: Thank you all for your advice ^~^ We are now more or less finished subbing the show but I think I'll send out "feedback reports" to some of the subbers to tell them what they did well and how they can improve.
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aww that’s so cute. We kor-eng are a bit unfriendly? Idk no one ever told us how to “improve” unless there were specific behaviors/habits which should be modified for overall team happiness.

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Aww, thank you.

Honestly, I wish I had someone tell me how to improve, so I guess I’m letting them live my dream lol.

I wanted to improve so desperately that I asked our team’s editor to call me out on my mistakes. She’s too nice…I need someone strict >.<

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