Editing Pains

[Edit by xomachi: A conversation from Channel Approval issue]

Yes editing makes me cry… it’s so tedious and it’s annoying when people don’t follow rules. I’ve met many different types of CMs. The micromanaging ones tend to make me run away.

However for those who want to take a swing at the wheel why not? I just dealt with one and was very very very frustrating. Like what are you thinking level.

Anyhow we hope to all be good at our positions, this thread is aimed at trying to be good CMs or become a CM at all. How do you become a CM if you are never given the opportunity?

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Hmm?

Oh no, I meant watching amazing acting made me cry - as an editor, I start to recognize the tendencies of the subbers I work for - and thus watch for their usual small things. And if someone for some reason has subbed we have TWO horseman and we clearly have ONE - well, that’s my job. :slight_smile:

They craft the beautiful table…all the frame, and the careful work…the subbers and segmenters. I merely sand and apply the protective shine that makes it all look good hopefully for years. :slight_smile:

And then set it for everyone to eat. :). Make sure those mugs get washed, sigh.

Editing and CM really are those jobs.

Moa Desaym

WAIT.

raising brows.

I am sorry to hear you are suffering from “horrible subs”. And…did you truly mean to write what you did through that passage? About editing?

With regard to your professed new prowess in editing…passage deleted regarding the above author’s segment and English repairs in only a four-minute portion of Episode 1.1…of TWENTY EPISODES THIS AUTHOR NEEDED HELP WITH!

As for the last part…that a MOVE OF .1 second TRULY affects the MEANING OF THE TRANSLATION IN THE SUBTITLE?

No. Because if the subtitle is correct, .1 is not sufficient a difference to destroy a correctly-written subtitle. I strongly disagree. It would take at least half a second to a full second in most cases, and then by listening to what is said and how it’s said, you can rule this out!

And the difference between people’s machines here - and on any given day - can be .1 - and the true EXACT timing might be .05 different…not the full .1…and you are possibly not being efficient in your editing if you worry this FOR ALL correctly-segmented sections through an entire 45 minute episode, for segments that are within .1 of exact.

Rather than worrying what is WRITTEN IN THE BLANK!

I really hope this was not your meaning when you wrote the above-quoted excerpt.

Goodness…I am really surprised and well, i certainly would NOT worry about .1 through well, FIFTY EPISODES! I mean, picture this. MOVE the drama forward .1 …ONE TENTH OF A SECOND…and would it CHANGE THE MEANING OF ALL THE SUBS?

OF COURSE NOT!

Please well, rethink this one and tell me please what you truly intended to write there.

Xie Xie,

Crouching Dieter, Hidden Donut
I’ve got that half KKD glazed still here for you…if you can explain what on earth that was AND I buy into your explanation…it’s FINALLY yours… it’s left from QI :slight_smile:

There are say? 3? subtitlers I have encountered who do not complete the subtitles and it annoys me a lot! However this is better than subtitlers who make things up. I can name 3 id’s who do this. By definition the latter three are abusers!!! I cry fixing these subtitles. The other ones are normally tweaks, or with some ID’s I am in awe of how felicitous their English is and I want to go into a hole because mine are horrible.

No it does change the meaning because the pronunciation is very very oh so slightly different. But it makes a different word entirely!!!
I just fixed an example where .1s cut off the beginning of a pronunciation of a word. If someone were not to play out the entire part!!/view the whole video you would never catch it. I actually happened to like the show so I was watching from “the outside” and then editing inside as needed.

Since the very beginning of the word is cut off, it makes it sound like the first character was just a sound/noise that is not to be segmented. The segment started after the cut off of part of the first character so you could only really hear the 2nd part.

You really may have NO IDEA how much time we spend trying to hear things properly. Not the whole segment maybe, but it alters the meaning as you scratch your head to figure out why that word is there and what its relationship is to the other words.

A whole character in Korean is about 0.2s. Therefore 0.1s does matter, a lot sometimes. We’ve had to scratch our heads trying to figure out if it was the diaphragm or the sternum or something else (sounded VERY different in English but it was a slight starting difference)

It does matter, because for words I cannot hear I keep replaying the segment again and again. (up to six times when I was a noob. Now I am master of google, so maybe like 4x max). I’m not sure if I check every segment, more like… I play them and at times I would readjust if needed for split combines. Like some of the segments in a drama I am editing are coming out longer than they should. I would split those. I’m not sure if many segmenters do this? I know 3 who do on Korean shows.

For QI Ajumma2 actually helped finish a lot of it and so did Gripstar_385 bless their hearts. Those are both unnies who happen to IRL ajummas that are wonderful.

So to me yes having ON-TIME subtitles for Kdrama matters much.

Seriously?

Why is there so much headache on those shows - I mean, we haven’t been hearing such huge problems and I am on an on-air Korean drama right now - and it’s historical too?

IF we were not segmenting this one well, we’d have lots of problems by your description quickly - but it’s not looking that way from what I read?

If you’re editing this from seg timer - I still do not see how it’s so much more difficult to edit than yes, Chinese.

As for speed and number of characters, we had a guy who we gave 2.5 second segments.

I don’t think anybody will beat him for number of characters he could get out that fast! Zhou …Botong.

Conversely…we have sllooow mooving monks and 6-8 seconds for some sentences. Because if you cut them up…people die waiting of well, ? trying to read it AND the subber can’t tell what’s going on either!

Is Korean really that hard to edit? Harder than Chinese, archaic, with honorifics? Historical drama Chinese?

I think I’ll ask someone I know who subs both. Proficiently. And has the English abilities to well, to definitely give me a good answer. :slight_smile:

I admit I am now curious…and if this is a problem for you, I am sorry to hear it. :slight_smile:

Moa Desaym

Nah I’m just really anal. The system has enough holes that if there isn’t someone to plug the segment/video one, no one will ever fix it at times (we do have some editors who do this like me).

But let’s be real, the mistakes I fix no one would notice unless you understood the video and at that point you don’t even need the subtitles. People seem to be having lots of fun though I made SO MANY changes in a few eps because the subtitles were only 80% accurate. They were sorta there but not really (ball park).

I’m really…picky. Things aren’t that hard to edit. If I cared less I could finish WAY faster. Some are harder to subtitle because we literally have to research and not everything is on google or enough information at times. I’m mostly limited by my hearing abilities.

And…I’m not picky about the quality of our work?

Okay. Since you’re telling me how picky and particular you are, I will remind you here that you missed a LOT of necessary - not optional - changes when you were worked with me briefly and I did follow you, make the fixes, AND detail it to you. I got tired of writing all the fixes that were missed in only 4 minutes of video time of that first episode’s first section, because you were not as thorough as I am. I also was hoping you would improve vastly in a short time, so that I would not need to follow you throughout the next 53 episodes in the same manner, having to continue to make substantial changes. That at least your work might approach what I like to see for at least a “first edit” of an episode, after TE, but before one last look and release.

That’s only segments and English - and not translation. And this wasn’t a K drama with the mysterious issues with segments changing the words. The words were already in English…and the segments in need of repairs in a standard fashion.

I…do not consider myself “anal”. Nor am I about retention of such by-products of that particular body cavity.

I do suspect, based on some level of peer-review and feedback, that I am moderately capable of editing English and segmenting, for an editor here in the vikiverse at least.

If you can demonstrate something far closer to my level of ability in English and segment editing, you are welcome to show me, I have two dramas that need such skills and yes, any time you wish… After all, I have oh, about fifty-odd episodes left out of the 137 total I started with to complete. :slight_smile:

In English. We would not need to have you toil through the trauma of your characters and their possible mutations…sigh.

I also have English/General editor positions still available on pending dramas - for qualified and careful, experienced editors of historical dramas. People who do their research and write a decent T/N and Team Notes as well… :slight_smile:

No rush. NO idea if they’ll get well, licensed. Plenty of episodes left for an audition where it may be required as well. :slight_smile:

Moa Desaym
back to well, catching up on my editing. :slight_smile:

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Grammar makes my head hurt a lot. I like to render the translation to be identical to the feeling of the original, not that you’re doing a bad job, at all. I think it’s a bit different. I like to also sit with things and ponder them and then go back when I change my mind.

English grammar isn’t my strong suit, which is why I signed myself up for a traineeship. It seems word order matters. No, I cannot follow your English as you are fortunately one of those people who make me believe my English is crapshoot. What I am good at is closely reenacting feelings back in another language. But in terms of English grammar pickiness, I do not rank very high. If it is clear, it is good. I move on.

And when I read this, my “feeling” from what you have written is that you do not believe I correctly convey the feeling of the translators. That somehow, in your eyes, my not sitting about pondering every word makes my words used less valuable…or less correct! Or possibly you mean here - that my writing lacks the FEELING of the original? And also a sense - a “feeling” - that therefore because I do not labor over every SINGLE WORD that you are yes, “looking down on me” for my very competence and speed? And thus…my work has somehow a “feeling” of less value in your eyes…that you do not acknowledge more than an ability to use grammar well in a language you fail to respect!

Were I to “sit with things and ponder them” as the only editor on 50 episodes, perhaps I might have them ready to release in perhaps well, ten or twenty years?

I do think about the meaning and the flow of the drama when I edit. Let’s be absolutely clear about that. Also the bringing together of the work of many in a way that makes sense in English as well as retains the meaning - including T/N for units of measure left IN the original language with explanations, history, AND as much of the original flavor as CAN be brought across to hopefully make it still yes, a CHINESE drama. Chinese idioms are brought over and given the literal translation and then an explanation for the rest of the world to grasp…

I believe you have delivered what is known as a “backhanded compliment” to me…and perhaps this was a message you should have “sat with and pondered” considerably longer before writing to me. After all, it should be widely known around here that if you write to me, I do generally read it…and answer. Essentially you have labeled me as a mechanic…and yourself, an artist. Or artisan, carefully crafting every word?

Or, if I were to read into your message yet another possible “feeling”, you may have felt you were triumphant somehow in gaining with me, “the last word”. Sigh.

I wasn’t going to read this - or answer it - any further. I literally do have other and better ways to occupy my time. But considering your “last word” really is rather insulting - I have two options.

I may ignore it. Or I might…“take it to heart”…or “engrave it on my heart”. Choose whichever of the two “feels” more appropriate to you.

Perhaps it is time for you to stop “looking down on” English grammar and properly embrace it to at least a competent extent. Then perhaps when you write to me, I may get the “feeling” that there is mutual respect, and not merely the “feeling” that because I am not fluent in your mater lingua, that I am entirely lacking…in your eyes…and your “feeling” as you write.

I shall not join anyone in their xenophobic tendency to believe that their mater lingua is the only language worth knowing, or with feeling and soul in it. Whether I will ever achieve fluency that is to the standard I wish for in Chinese remains to be seen, but I shall not stop at a level that leaves me without sufficient grounding in the grammar and niceties of the language and consider myself FLUENT.

GeNie of the Lamp wheels, deftly flips three sonnet-line daggers carefully through the heart of the phrase “not that you’re doing a bad job” in the above message, THWOCK! slicing it from its moorings and sending it sailing to the floor, floating on the air currents generated by the passage of the weapons. The PROUD DRAGON REPENTS! KaBLAM! exiting into the mists….POOF!

No feeling as in feeling (character) of the original language… I focus more on that than on the grammar. Now more than three id’s have pointed out that English grammar is not my strong suit.

I am notorious for leaving out commas, and periods. We work in different realms and have different perspectives of what must be changed. I don’t like incorrect translations, so I’ll go through and fix them all if there is one. This is what I mean by ballpark subtitles. I don’t like them. Some grammar niceties make things long like REALLY LONG and the technicalities give me a headache.

I overlook grammar because others can do it well, much better than me.

See you also think about the balance between literal and meaning, which glykeria has also pointed out. How is that a backhanded compliment when you are leagues ahead of me in the English? English is my mother tongue and unfortunately I don’t think it is the most beautiful language. It is so demanding of me.

mmm… I am sorry I have hurt you. I also do not think that English editing is a task that I’m the best suited for… I look down on the grammar because it gives me headache, so I just cut it off and delegate to others. I do keep asking others for feed back in selecting words.

Did you think you were doing a bad job? Why would you think that I would look down on you?