GE and CE Programs Discontinued by NSSA

[cgwm808]

A unilateral decision has been made to discontinue the NSSA GE and CE Programs. Apparently, the decison maker perceived that viki personnel, who had encouraged NSSA to establish an editing academy, seemed no longer interested in the program. If his perception is correct, then I FULLY SUPPORT the decison, although I wish that there could have been a meaningful discussion with the staff. I opened this thread for an opportunity for other volunteers to express their opinions even though an irrevocable decision has been made.
The discontinuation of the academy does not mean that the presubs in English do not require editing badly. I have been collected examples of poorly written subtitles with the intent of using them as teaching examples. These are part of my collection of English subs from viki dramas NOT subbed by our volunteers.

Children often feel the other parent’s vacancy after a divorce.
Let me get a break, too.
But Mr. Lee Seung Jun contrary claims he was the one who was seduced.
I truly wanted to relieve the deceased of the injustice.
Could it grant the group a new lease of life?
I was craving for something sweet.
Mr. Sasae will get here by lunchtime tomorrow as scheduled.
You can’t win me over that easily.
I need a replacement interpreter.
I already made plans with Min Jun tomorrow.
Don’t be involved.
What kind of a misbehavior is this to a new employee?
How can he make a person feel so shameful?
Why are there such tasteful things in the world?
If we just make up time, we can talk my mother into compliance.
You followed me because it might interrupt your business, huh?
Bring her within this week for a formal greeting.
Once I see her formally and she can’t decipher between a joke and a response like a child, …
If too much, then starting next month?
Finish him up.
You have to be cut through when cutting someone off.
The Couple who Didn’t Planned to be Together. (Episode title)

[rumblenzo]

I am truly saddened to hear about the closure of the GE and CE programs.
It is such a pity that the decision was made this way, especially since we, the candidates, answered many questions to apply and were waiting for the next steps with anticipation.

I was fortunate to be guided by two senseis from the GE program, who allowed me to start learning on real projects with their advice, their feedback on my mistakes to help me improve, and their kindness.

I don’t think it is anyone’s fault, but I still find it a real shame. Seeing this now makes me wonder: will Viki one day decide to close the entire NSSA? Will the programs in the different languages still continue to exist?

[irmar]

The NSSA does not belong to Viki, and still it has been training segmenters for years. We don’t actually need Viki’s patronage.
I am planning to start the English Editor training privately, with my original structure, curriculum and Training Manual that I shared on the sensei group and that you are all familiar with. Drawn on the 5-year teaching experience of my Italian Subber Training Course. As 95% of the materials are ready, we can start very shortly.

Any of the senseis who have been actively contributing on this for a year now and don’t want our hard work to be in vain, and wants to join - following that curriculum - is heartily welcomed.

We won’t have training channels given by Viki. In my opinion they are not really indispensable. Each one of us has projects where the students can be trained, and of course most exercises should be pre-made and carefully planned, not random subtitles from random series).

What we lack and could be a problem is a platform to let people know that this program exists - and that is what Viki would be providing. However, we all have many acquaintances here who can spread the word.

@table122000, @goodkarma, @my_happy_place, @mirjam_465, @thaly1209, @cgwm808, @modestloving_147, @animarina_677, @moreugesseo and other senseis who actively worked on this.
(@worthyromance: I know you’re already doing your own private training, so I don’t expect you to be interested, but in case you are, we would be delighted to have you in our team.)

Who wants to join?

[irmar]

(I couldn’t tag more than 10 users and I don’t remember all the names, but let me add here @baby_panda76 and @damiechan.

[miracle_866]

This actually made me sad because I applied on the 1st of August and have been checking everyday. So can people still have the role of GE?

[miracle_866]

Hi, so are you guys going to train users who want to become GE’s? If so, that is wonderful and I would love to sign up please!

[kakashiandme]

Those were my thoughts exactly.

[trangstar888]

From my perspective, the challenges with the GE/CE program weren’t due to lack of effort but more about alignment. A few areas stood out for me:

• Lack of uniformity – Not all CEs in the academy consistently followed the guidelines. Only a couple did after months of discussion. We all had our differences, but there was little compromise unless one person’s view prevailed.
• Egos and disagreements – Some were unhappy with group decisions and unable to set aside differences. Discussions became heated, people grew offended, and participation dropped as individuals went silent and pursued their own approach. This led to inactivity and less participation.
• Grading disagreements – We couldn’t even agree on how to assess students. A few took the stance that only they could truly teach “English.” My personal view is that subtitling isn’t about academic English rules but about conversational readability.
• Mentorship concerns – Some felt that even after graduation, students should still be privately mentored because the rest of us weren’t “qualified.” It gave the impression that unless you had a long teaching background or a formal English degree, your input carried less weight.
• Applicant handling – At times, certain mentors pushed only their own private students forward, or discouraged others from applying because they didn’t believe the program was sufficient or aligned with their standards.

These are just a few points, but my personal opinion is that we weren’t able to set aside our egos to build a strong program to bring back English contributors.

For my part, I continue to privately mentor TEs (Ch–Eng, Viet–Eng, Cant–Eng), GEs, and CEs. But I always tell my students: you are not allowed to stay with me after training is complete—go work with other veteran editors. I want them to learn different perspectives and develop further. Unfortunately, I know that not all privately trained CEs are telling their students the same thing.

In the end, I felt like a fool for following guidelines I thought we had all agreed on, only to learn later they were being disregarded, even after being presented to Viki for approval. Looking back, maybe it’s a good thing the program closed, because otherwise it might have just led to more badmouthing among ourselves. (Not to air dirty laundry. )

Until we can put aside our differences and start from a place of mutual respect for every Sensei, I don’t think the program can continue.

[dimghro]

As the NSSA Subbing Division’s moderator and the only coordinator of the EEA, I just want to say a few words to not let some contributors mislead the community.

The entire ex-EEA staff was informed about the reasons behind this decision, and a part of them supported the decision, and some also wrote to me in private. They had to read a very long notice, which is based on real facts about our community at this point. If Viki will be again actively interested in having such programs and make the same formatting mandatory for all the English editors, we will see then. Until further changes, the NSSA is not recognising any other external programs of the GE and CE roles.

The TE Programs are still up, and their students will be rewarded with the Viki TE Collection Badge if they graduate.

The Chinese TE is almost good to go with the mentoring. The team is awesome and they are working in such a marvellous way.

For the Korean one, I’m still waiting for months and keep sending reminders to receive something; they don’t even have a form to sign up. Maybe the Korean senseis should actually do something for the TE program instead of posting here, even though they know the reasons behind this decision.

For the Japanese one, we hope that Viki will help us with at least 2 channels. As for the Thai one, we still need active senseis and after some training channels.

This is all I have to say. Given my notice sent to all ex-EEA staff, I consider any other comment to be ill-intentioned.

[bubbletea_shi04]

It seriously saddens me to know that the GE programs have been discontinued. I applied to the course on around early august and have been anticipating the approval. I am sure that the decision was a hard one to make given that there are many talented people working to make this community successful. But, not being able to participate in such a wonderful program after a long wait is such a shame.

[worthyromance]

I have two GE trainees and one CE trainee. I’ll send new applicants to you because I’m swamped. Please assess if they are eligible. Thank you for your willingness to continue English Editor training!

[crimac]

Connie,
to give an opinion or even just to make sense of others’ opinions, I feel I’m missing some information (and I may not be the only one).
Could you clarify who made the decision? Was it taken by majority vote or unilaterally, and why? If it was by majority, who voted? Senseis only?
I’ve seen mentions of a ‘lack of alignment’ and of ‘formatting rules’. Do you share this view? In your opinion, were these the actual reasons behind the decision, or were there other factors?
I also read about an attempt to continue the program ‘unofficially’, which suggests that not all parties agreed, though it could also reflect what the majority voted for. Do you support that approach? Could you elaborate? Sorry, I’m just missing the broader context here.

[catalina2108]

It’s unfortunate to hear this news. I was looking forward to taking time off from work in November to apply for a GE apprenticeship at NSSA and continue with segmentation. I really wanted to learn.

[crimac]

It’s unclear to me, especially after reading the ‘possible’ reasons mentioned about the ‘lack of alignment.’ Well, as I read above, nothing prevents the academy from continuing, with or without the official seal. Would it be possible to know Viki’s reasons, then?

[irmar]

It wasn’t Viki’s decision. t was the EEA coordinator, dimghro who made this decision, and wrote a detailed post about his reasons (with replies disabled). None of us was consulted - at least not publicly.
(Viki only supports NSSA, it’s something organized by volunteers as you already know, therefore cannot tell us to discontinue an academy or not.)

P.S. Of the reasons mentioned by trangstar, I am not at all aware of the second two (mentorship concerns and applicant handling), maybe this went on behind the scenes. And in my personal opinion the first one (editors continue to keep their own opinion on things like square brackets and italics) is completely irrelevant.
Disagreements on how the course should be? Yes, there were, but ultimately dimghro overrode them, deciding a wholly different approach to teaching (much shorter course, consisting of feedback on training channels, just as the Language academies), and grading method. Most of us followed anyway, not wanting to ruin everything and waste a whole year’s work. We were ready to go along with his suggestions and were diligently reviewing the 16 applications when the announcement hit us like lightning, out of the blue. Maybe for some it wasn’t out of the blue, maybe there was a hurricane behind the scenes, but many if not most of us had no idea.
Just FYI.

[dimghro]

Just to clarify:

I was both the initiator and coordinator of this project, and it happened for Viki to ask me for such an academy for English at the same time when I thought about it. So we only agreed to have this academy, and they only assured me of their support and nothing more. The entire management was and is still in my hands.

All those involved as staff in this project have been notified about the reasons for this decision. If they are unable to accept the reality exposed by those reasons, it is their own problem.

So, as the only coordinator of this program and the one who actually only invited the senseis, and not asked for their approval to have these programs, there was no valid reason to ask for their validation on discontinuing the GE and CE programs. Also, the reasons I presented to the EEA staff are pertinent enough not to be classified as superficial, and I thank all those who understood them and saw beyond any other personal reason/aim. I’m sure we are going to do an even greater job if Viki will reconsider the importance of such programs.

And to all those ”concerned”, don’t worry, I’m very aware of how I manage the Subbing Division and the decisions I make, so I’ll not give any chance to anyone to catch me on the wrong foot. My good intentions always guide me, and I can always prove them. I’m not doing anything without solid proof of my work; I know very well the community I’m in.

[thaly1209]

I will just say that if there really was a hurricane behind the scenes, then I was not aware of it. As far as I was informed, we were in the middle of reviewing applications and preparing to move forward from there. It kind of saddens me that after almost a year of working on this, everything suddenly went down the drain.

I also recognize that for some of us it was harder to speak up—either because certain people had stronger opinions or because others would take offense too easily. At least for my part, I tried to set that aside, because I believed the Academy was worth fighting for. That’s why it was disheartening to see disagreements handled in a way where rules weren’t consistently followed, and where personal agendas sometimes overshadowed the bigger picture.

I am also tired of seeing clueless people become GEs when they clearly don’t understand English at the level needed to be editing English subtitles. It shows in their editing and in the way they work. Many times, they only seem to do it to add one more title to their name, or because they think it gives them more influence in the community. This is one of the reasons I supported some of the Academy’s decisions: because we’re not here to teach English.

Since I’m already saying controversial things, I’ll add that it was disappointing to see that although the Academy established rules, not all senseis followed them. Some simply did their own thing, which undermined the credibility of what we were building. And when mentorship becomes about pushing forward your own private students while discouraging others, it gives the impression that the program was more about personal agendas than collective progress.

As @irmar mentioned, I also want to keep training people. I may not be the best GE out there, but I know I’m not the worst, and I am always happy to lend a helping hand. At the end of the day, I genuinely enjoy watching shows on Viki—something I haven’t done as much recently, because it’s hard to enjoy them when certain CEs/GEs make such a mess out of the subtitles.

In the end, I don’t mean to put this on dimghro—at the end of the day, as coordinator, he had the responsibility of putting everyone’s opinions together while also making the calls he thought were best for the Academy. What saddens me is that too many of us couldn’t set our egos aside to work together. Unless this community starts from a place of mutual respect, the same problems will keep surfacing, and we’ll be stuck with more division than progress. Unfortunately, that’s why so many feel this space is full of snakes instead of real unity.

That said, Viki is a corporation, and they have the power to shut down certain things in an official capacity. However, that doesn’t mean we can’t continue training people through our own channels. Honestly, I would rather do that than sit back and watch the kinds of messes I’ve been seeing lately.

[crimac]

Connie, here is my opinion:
Continue the program outside the EEA, under new leadership and as a new initiative. It seems you already have the support of some senseis and candidates. I wish you the best of luck.

[cgwm808]

I want to make clear that I believe at the time I read the justification I could understand Robert’s reasoning so I have no bone to pick with him.

[moreugesseo]

@dimghro wrote:
The entire ex-EEA staff was informed about the reasons behind this decision, and a part of them supported the decision, and some also wrote to me in private. They had to read a very long notice, which is based on real facts about our community at this point.
If you want us to understand that NSSA notice, please tell us where we can read it. I did read your remarks here and on eaa-staff-notices, as well as your Notices 38 and 39 on nssa-notices, so I do understand your personal views. But I don’t fully understand NSSA’s position.
Thank you.