I think it's important we address this behaviour as a community

General Discussion
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I hope this doesn’t come off as an attack to the commenters because it is really not. I really love Viki, I love the comments, they are funny, insightful and they give life to dramas but as I’ve spent more time watching dramas and reading comments I’ve started to notice something really disturbing.

What I have noticed over time is how we tear apart female actresses for the littlest things, from what they are wearing, the sound of their voice, the way they walk, if her make-up isn’t entirely perfect. If I’m being entirely honest, we should be able to see some of ourselves in them, instead the comments go out of their way to comment on how ugly an actress is, how there’s something wrong with her nose, how she’s a plastic surgery monster, how terrible an actress she is when her male co-actors don’t get criticism on the same grounds. Even in shows where the acting is absolutely perfect, I’ll see comments about how the actress looks ugly, or too old.

Is this really needed? Are you adding any value to the conversation? Does tearing down someone who’s working hard at their dream/profession make you feel better about yourself? Has that hateful comment improved your life in anyway?

Why are girls and women tearing down other girls? Why are we so quick to call a female character stupid for an action that anyone could have done and call a male character cute for the same thing? Male leads do the absolute most in terms of messed up of stuff, they do the absolute worst things and the amount of hate they get in relation to the second lead female is near invisible.

Is it because they are cute or are we as commenters just way too harsh on women and girls like us?

Second lead female characters are basically doing exactly what a lot of male leads do, has anyone noticed that? Keeping the object of their affection away from their rival, being catty (mean, sarcastic), being intelligent. Yes they do go a bit far but I’ve seen people go above and beyond to defend some horrible stuff a male character has done. Example: Gu Jun Pyo, the male lead from Playful Kiss (if this hadn’t been an spur of the moment thing, I’d have added more leads).

Why are they afforded forgiveness? Why do they have so many supporters? Why are the people that support these leads so quick to tell a female character to go die?

So really the point of this really long spiel is to beg us as a community of kdrama lovers to please be a little easier on the girls, try to understand them and if you can’t understand keep an open mind, just visualise their point of view. When you see a second lead female don’t hate, just imagine that this was their story being told, do it from every characters perspective because not only does that make the drama more interesting it stops you from judging so immediately.

TLDR: Be nicer to female characters, I know we like the male characters but please give female characters a chance, try to add value to the discussion instead of hate, try not to nitpick about the female lead’s appearance she’s an actress not a model her dresses and make up don’t have to on point all the time. Also can we please please stop with the plastic surgery monster and plastic surgery comments. I hope that we all can call out viki users who start hateful stuff like this is in the comments because I love this place and I love the comments but sometimes the hate is too much to bear. BE NICER TO GIRLS, CHANCES ARE YOU’RE ONE AS WELL. Empathy is a great thing to have, not only are kdramas better with empathy, the whole world is better with empathy. (I sound like such a cheesy person, but it’s true.)

This has been a ridiculously long PSA. If you managed to read it all thank you, also please comment so we can further discuss this and improve.

PS: There are really young and impressionable young girls who watch these dramas as well and to see other women treating women in such a way, it makes it look like it’s okay when it really isn’t.

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Thank you so much for this refreshing comment. I agree with you full-heartedly. I’ve also noticed how deprecating these comments may be.

You’ve taken all the words right out of my mouth, so I don’t really have much to add to your argument, but I’d like to point out that there’s so much hurt and pain right now about women and girls being self-conscious about their appearance, whereas most of it is unnecessary. Rather than compare and consider one appearance as the best looking, why can’t we find the beauty in different appearances? From another perspective, if everyone were to look the same as that “standard of beauty”, the definition of beauty itself would cease to exist. I guess what I’m trying to point out is that, deciding that one look is the best is unnecessary and only incites pain. Many girls, because their environment pressures them into it, fall into physical and even worse, mental illnesses that scar them for life. It’s really not necessary.

I’ve also recently heard that one actress has such poor acting that they should bring back another female actress that used to be paired with the male actress. Within that same comment, they go into what you just mentioned, how hot and handsome and amazing that male actor is. I say… none of us here are actors or actresses, so why don’t we give them the chance? Some people are born naturally talented as actors, but most of us, including the not so good actors, have to work hard, need good mentorship, and more exposure and experience to get better. I feel that there’s always room for improvement, and given what you have just addressed, we should even more be biased and supportive of our own gender.

And no, you’re not a cheesy person. I think there’s so much truth in that. Empathy and love and support carries so much further than hate and animosity. I really hope that we all become more supportive and understanding.

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I’d like to point out that there’s so much hurt and pain right now about women and girls being self-conscious about their appearance, whereas most of it is unnecessary. Rather than compare and consider one appearance as the best looking, why can’t we find the beauty in different appearances? From another perspective, if everyone were to look the same as that “standard of beauty”, the definition of beauty itself would cease to exist. I guess what I’m trying to point out is that, deciding that one look is the best is unnecessary and only incites pain. Many girls, because their environment pressures them into it, fall into physical and even worse, mental illnesses that scar them for life. It’s really not necessary.

Honestly this is this bit is so important and I seriously agree. We’re not perfect so why do we expect the characters on screen have to be perfect. I don’t think I know a girl who doesn’t have issues with her appearance, even the super beautiful ones and it’s really sad. I think we can do way better as a group.

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I didn’t read the whole posts, to much to read in the middle of the night, but what I want to say is: If you find a comment in the comment section to be totally out of line you can always flag it. If it’s a timed comment which is totally out of line you can always PM the channel manager or one of the mods depending the language (Be sure to mention the series, episode, time etc). Moderators can moderate the timed comments and delete them where needed and quite a few moderators already check the timed comments from time to time but since there are so many…

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I feel like that would be asking too much from moderators who already do so much because as you said there are so many, I think truly if we as commenters start to call out and correct stuff like that ourselves, there will be less people who do it and the atmosphere would be more welcoming. Especially if we take more responsibility for our comments instead of being forced to do so by moderators.

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Similarly, I think moderators have more of a responsibility towards the team and the fluidity of work. We’re already doing our best balancing eager viewers and accommodating team needs. Besides, I think the point of this discussion was to bring awareness of a serious and alarming trend within the community, and not an allocation of responsibilities.

But of course, moderators can do that, but ultimately, I think it’s the awareness that will carry further.

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So you are unhappy about the comments but not unhappy enough to take action other than complain? I have pm’ed the channel manager when comments were offensive and they were taken down. If we are truly going to evolve as people we have to stand up and make a change by saying something is wrong when it is. A big part of the Kdrama/pop community is driven by bullying. Until we each take a step outside this forum and address the fan’s harsh comments nothing will ever change. Try opening a dialog with the channel managers and moderators. Tell those who post harsh comments that it is offensive. Together our voice will be heard.

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I think 1 of the task of a Moderator is also checking on the comment section. If he/she is an English Mod, then the english page. If he/she a Spanish Mod, then the Spanish page. And so on (although sometimes other languages are used on the english page too).
So it is okay for you to tell the Moderator :slight_smile: otherwise, go to the Channel Manager straight away.

If you can’t be bothered to report to them, then just switch the timed comment off (if it is a timed comment), or don’t read it or flag the comment.

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Oh deary me, of course you have a point and it’s well said. I have in the most part ignored most of the comments made in that vein. I put it down to silly teenage jealous remarks. I’ve observed also that dramas with very good looking guys get more attention than they deserve even get awards simply because thousands of young girls like the ‘eye candy’. I have been known to rebuke a comment I read that belittles an actress because the commenter thinks she’s not pretty enough to be in a lead with their favourite ‘eye candy’ guy. Maybe try this out too, every time you see a comment like you’ve described TELL THE COMMENTER OFF! Explain to the immature person how silly and ridiculous their comment is. That what I do.
Do you recall the nasty comments made about the great actress who was in ’ Witch’s Romance’ ? I got very angry about those and pointed out how stupid they were.
It doesn’t help when writers give these actresses such shallow parts to play, then they do their best with the part after all it’s work to them, only to have silly boys and girls deride the actress and not the role she’s playing.

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Mods in many channels also have the job to check timed comments as @auroratasya says . Right now I’m also checking timed comments of a Kdrama and I skim through it. Swearing, asking for subs, technical Viki problems (why do people even post those in the timed comments?!) talking bad about the team, mentioning other sites are deleted. And of course all the other stuff I find out of line. But the ‘problem’ is we don’t check them every day and people can comment any time of day they watch it. For timed comments we can search on name and all timed comments are listed based on the time they are made and per episode. So if you PM person X made this and that timed comment at 30 min in ep 3 of drama…" we can delete it within seconds.

I always flag comments which are out of line, to bad mods can’t delete comments in the comment section anymore so we just flag hoping Viki will delete it soon. But comments need a few flags before they are hidden so if it’s really really worse we PM others to flag too.

I sometimes comment on the bad clothing and make up too of both the male and female. Sometimes the outfits people have to wear by the stylist doesn’t do them justice and one time a nice girl had such bad make up she looked 10 years older. To be honest if people where really that ugly some people claim, would they even be in Kdrama. Yes I also saw some hateful comments in the comment section of witch romance (I don’t watch with timed comments) and I flagged them. Yes the female lead didn’t look as young as the others but hey why should a 40 year old (or whatever her age is) look like a 25 year old. She looked amazing for her age. To me Koreans mostly look younger for their unless they are really young (I once thought a 15 year old was at least 18 oops) so it’s refreshing people look their age.

I think it’s maybe also some sort of jealousy in some cases. Like how some people hate it when their oppa is close to a girl which is just a friend. Or how they paired up with people in Kdrama or whatever. Some even hate the kissing scenes they do and get angry by it. Some seem to forget they only play a role, and the stylists and make up artists decide what they look like in a kdrama. Perfect example is IU in dream high 1. People told she was ugly but she was only wearing a suit because she had to look like that for the role she had.

And yes for some actors and actress I also find their acting poor but most they don’t have enough experience. Like people say Yunho was a bad actor. Yes he wasn’t the best since he didn’t have much experience and SM didn’t give him enough time to get into the role due activities with TVXQ but in The Night Watchman I see he has improved a lot. And what I always find most surprizing is when people go “I won’t watch this Kdrama because … is in it”. I’m picking a Kdrama because I like the plot. And ok if I see a good actor/actress I like in a maybe not so good plot I will try it as well.

Wow I wrote a lot.

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So you are unhappy about the comments but not unhappy enough to take action other than complain?

I think you’ve missed my point somewhat, I’m not saying that people shouldn’t flag the comments, I’m saying that awareness is more important than censorship. It’s not a complaint it’s just a “guys look at this thing we’re doing, let’s stop that”. I don’t think comments should be policed because once that happens creativity in the comments section somewhat becomes restricted. If comments start getting taken down, what’s the line? How offensive can a comment be to be taken down, it’s a bit of a slippery slope. Now I’m not saying moderators don’t share a responsibility in this, I just think we have more of a responsibility and I believe so much in the people here that I think that we can do it and change without forced censorship.

Together our voice will be heard.

I really hope so, I hope more people read this and it improves :slight_smile: Thanks for your commentary, it really added to the conversation, maybe I should vent less and provide solutions.

A more proactive conversation with suggestions of things we can actually do.

So far:

  • Flag hateful comments
  • PM Channel Manager if there are hateful comments that you’re unable to flag
  • Call out needless hate in the comment, offer an opposing view, silence in the face of these comments only creates more hateful comment because there is no opposition.
  • If you’ve seen the kdrama Ghost you should know not to write hateful comments on the internet, that stuff backfires.

If anyone has anymore stuff to add please do or any more opinions on the matter, do you disagree or agree?

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omg! I had no idea that was possible! :open_mouth:

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Well I totally get your point girl, and I agree, sometimes people comment too many offensive things (I didn’t know we could report them, anyways)

I think is not wrong to hate the characters, I mean there’ve been times where I want to slap certain character with a chair or something haha lol and I comment that, but of course I don’t mean it, it’s just the rage of the moment, what I want to say is that it’s ok if we hate a character ( because some of them are made for us to hate them) but the wrong thing is hating the actors or actresses, because well, they are just doing their jobs. I have no problem if people criticize the make up or the clothes or the looks, you know everyone has a different point of view about beauty and fashion and stuff so, it’s ok if they do it, as long as they do it with respect.

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If I totally hate a character that actor or actress is doing an AMAZING job!!! So comments in regards to the acting skill I think are justified. It is after all their job they are getting paid for and let’s face it some of these guys really can’t act as well as others and got the part due to their looks. But hopefully with more experience in time they’ll get better. As for the cattiness that goes on it can be rather harsh, I agree and more women need to stand up against it to empower the youth of today. Let’s be perfectly honest 99% of us here I guarantee don’t even hold a candle to the extras… unless there are some super models hang out on viki on their spare time…maybe these people have low self esteem and posting the comments somehow make them feel better about themselves, but in most cases I’m betting it’s just ignorance that they really don’t know that what they are posting is a form of bullying. That such comments are hurtful and extremely mean at times. Same poster if they had a chance to actually met the Actress they are trashing in RL would most likely trip over their own feet trying to get an autograph.

So how do you stop it?? By bringing about awareness like this page is doing!!! :wink: Sooooooooo the next time those of us are watching (that have read this) see a comment… take action and stand up for the woman or point out that that comment is a form of cyber bullying and is not tolerated.
Thanks sooooooooooo much for taking a stand and making this thread. Chances are most people aren’t even aware they are doing anything wrong until they seriously take a step back and think would I really say this to this woman’s face??

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My point here is not that it’s wrong to hate a character, it’s that it’s harmful especially when all the hate is being diverted to one character (often the female char) and not the male character mostly when they are doing the same thing. While some of these characters are made so we can hate them, I see villains who are heavily praised, for example I was watching Ghost recently and the main villain was SPOILER and somehow he got way more love that the female character who was doing basically not killing anyone. If somehow people can give excuses for serial killers in dramas like Ghost it shoudn’t be so hard to understand a girl who’s hindering your OTP and doing some ridiculous stuff to get her own love story.

I try to see it like this, that second lead female, who’s slapping people and being generally unpleasant, yes she is not likable but she is relatable. People ignore the fact that second lead female characters are go getters, they are often incredibly beautiful, accomplished people. They do terrible stuff, yes but can we acknowledge that AND also acknowledge the fact that a lot of these women are smart, driven people.

I’ll use examples here:

Marriage Not Dating:

  • Sena was a plastic surgeon
  • She was confident in her body
  • She was super intelligent
  • She was kind (as seen in the scene with the child who had a facial distortion)
  • She could be a little childish like the main girl
    But she was reduced to a bitter bitch when that wasn’t all that she was, this is why I am against just hating a character even if they are there to hate.

Heirs

  • Another go-getter
  • Not easily intimidated
  • Harsh but told the hard truths everyone was running away from
  • Charismatic
  • The guy she was meant to marry was running around with another girl so she tried to shut it down, that is a logical response.

I could literally go on forever and ever. These women (the characters) have some amazing accomplishments so when you’re angered by their actions it would be cool to look at the stuff that they do have and they do that isn’t bad. This reduces the hate, it’s easy to see a character as just something there to hate but I feel like there’s way more.

I have no problem if people criticize the make up or the clothes or the looks, you know everyone has a different point of view about beauty and fashion and stuff so, it’s ok if they do it, as long as they do it with respect.

I also get when people criticise makeup or clothes sometimes but most of the time when commenters criticise these things they also crticise the actress not the make up artist, not the costume department. They also don’t say, “I don’t think that colour suits her” or “I don’t like the way they styled her hair” they say things like “She’s looks ugly” “I hate her hair” and that kind of stuff is exhausting to read over and over again.

Also there are times when comments like that aren’t even needed? Like when it makes sense for the character to be wearing those clothes. Sometimes an actress will be delivering the best scene of her career and the comments will be like all about her appearance, this guts me because the importance is put on her appearance and not the quality of her work. I hope this wasn’t too long.

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I think there are two problems.

  1. People think they can say everything they want because they hide behind a screen.
  2. Girls can be really mean among them, I think it’s a mix between jealousy and stupidity… :stuck_out_tongue:
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They are simply immature…

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I totally agree with you!
Otherwise, if I look at a drama, I don’t care about comments, it just clicked in for x, and voila, I see more. Double benefit.

If anyone’s interested, feel free to take a look in the comments, when someone annoys click the x.

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I agree. People sometimes are just too blinded by a certain actor that they’ll just find a way to justify whatever that actor or actress does just because they are handsome or too famous or so… I wonder… if these actors did these kind of actions in real life, like, you know, killing and stuff, would their fans still “support them”? I mean support their behavior? hmmm Thanks god they are just acting and most of them (I want to believe) are good people in real life. :smiley:

Yes, it is frustrating when there are more evil characters (male characters) in a drama doing evil things, but he girl is the one receiving all the hate… People is immature.

About the examples, I think that in those dramas the villains were not that evil if you compare them to other villains out there but they are placed in a drama which their “evilness” is bad enough to make people hate them. They did had good reasons to do whatever they did but every villain has a reason behind their actions and yes! they are smart-written characters but people won’t look at them in an objective way because they’re not real people, they’re just characters and they’re supposed to be the “evil ones we all should hate” lol I know how it sounds but it’s how it is… Sadly, because this leads to hateful comments about the actors behind the characters.

What I mean is that I don’t expect people to look at these characters in a objectively way, I don’t expect them to look at their good sides because they’re not supposed to do it and they just won’t. Not saying I don’t do it, I don’t hate blindly a certain character just because they’re meant to be the villains of the drama, but most people do. And I think is not totally wrong, they have the right to do it as long as they respect!

I wish everyone could understand these characters too and don’t write whatever just because they have so much hate inside of them…We have no right to bully an actor or an actress, never! We should stop these kind of comments by commenting too!

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Had a hard time to find this one back (the research function on the forum would need some improvement, also for new subbers who look for their way in topics. To find this back, got to type “I don’t like her hair…”).

Interesting topic and point of views.

It’s where freedom of expression vs. censorship frontiers could be blurred/blurry.
5 years ago or today?

To echo you:

Self awareness vs. police patrol
People know, the question is: do they care?

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