I think every newbie segger should be given a chance but I always advise newbie seggers to not start with a ongoing Kdrama. I think that brings too much pressure to newbies to do a good job but they don’t have enough experience . Segmenting is more then simply cut a 10 minute part in pieces. You need to learn about the length, timing, how to cut long dialogues in smaller segments for better flow of the subs on screen and a lot more.
Although I’m a seg101 grad myself I don’t think it’s a must to have but it’s a great way to practice (or in my case for traditional to improve my segmenting skills with the new timer since I graduated with the old one). I think that with the program I learned things a lot faster with useful feedback then learning everything myself. Though some can teach themselves perfectly because I saw seggers doing an awesome job but never took the program
So all in all I think it’s up to the channel manager, I totally understand when manager only wants experienced seggers. But if a CM takes in newbies. it’s their channel. Who are we to say no? As long as they don’t expect me take the role as ‘teacher’ when I don’t have time. It’s not that I don’t want to help people who are new to segging but on moments when I want to and when I have time.
Before the last round of “upgrades” to Viki, it was possible to set up channels that could just be used to learn on. I worked with a number of people that way. The most difficult part was that many people would exclaim just how much they wanted to learn to segment but didn’t really want to put in the effort to learn. My time was limited so it was necessary for me to carefully guage how much effort I put in to assist them. The more effort they put in for themselves, the more I would help them, with the idea to encourage them to eventually go through the Seg101 program. Remember what Amy said above about her first time? Many will not have the fortitude to pursue the role further like she did.
Now it is not easy to come up with a good place to practice. I have been told that Viki is working on coming up with some “sandboxes” for people to use. That’s well and good but without someone to look over their shoulders, few will become good at it. I mentioned here before that I recentlty came across someone with over 300,000 segments but even then, their work could havve been much better. As a channel manager it would still be difficult to have this person segment an on-air drama. I believe that person could however get to an expert status with just a little the right help.
As Viki is currently structured many people think that all they need to do is watch the little Viki video and off they go. They burn through all of the old shows that they can find to run up their numbers. Because there are so many now with high numbers, unless they have the Seg101 badge or I already know them from experience, I will want to check their work. I’ll take 300 quality segments any day over 300,000 segments that are off timing and choppy.
When I started there was no source other than Seg101, which I didn’t feel I had the time for then. The only thing I could do was watch shows that quality segmenters had worked on and try to understand for myself what they were doing. Now, there is a lot of assistance available, especially with this discussion thread. Amy has put so much effort into trying to explain things to help people and she should be commended for it. There are so many good tips.
My advice to people is to find a mentor, read and watch everything available then find a place to practice. You can segment a few minutes, get some advice then if you don’t have much space, delete the segments and do it again. Forget about the numbers, think about doing it right. They don’t have to start with Korean shows. They should start with what is easier for them. Being able to go back and subtitle the segments is a huge help in the beginning because then they can more easily see how good their timing is, or isn’t. Later they can learn the sounds that are common in Korean language structure that will help them identify the ends of sentences (see one of Amy’s previoius messages on the subject). As a mentor, ask Viki to make you manager of one of the old English speaking shows. Hopefully you can find one that hasn’t been segmented yet but if it has, delete the segs and start over, working with your student. If the student says something like “I don’t like that kind of show” or “I only want to watch such and such kinds of shows”, forget it. They aren’t that interested in learning.
If any of you are good at segmenting, if you have been through Seg101, help out there. If not, at least find a few people who want to learn and help them. But, you will find that for every 10 or so that say they want to do it, maybe only 1 or 2 will. There are tens of thosands of people on Viki that don’t contribute anything … just watch. The better you can make them, the easier and faster for them to get through Seg101.
Sorry this is so long…
Something I just remembered is that many of the old shows that new “segmenters” worked on have bad segments. Adjusting those bad segments under the guidance of a mentor can be a very easy way to get started by working on start time, stop time, flow and continuity as well as proper length.
Thanks for your feedback on my essay about Korean Segmenting…
To me it’s actually the technical bits that makes segmenting difficult…That is also why I say Seg101 is challenging. For Traditional 101, one 0.1 second late segment = FAIL. Also you must minimize your early segments (of less that 0.2 early) to less than 5%, meaning you could have at most 10 or so 0.1 second early segments…For instance, Scircus, do you relisten to your segments’ beginnings to check whether they are synchronized? Do you notice that your segments seems to be present before the voice is heard?
If you notice this issue, it means you suffer the issue with early segment. you must pause right at the hint of voice heard and make your cut there. After that, you must use left-eclipse and right-eclipse check to ensure your segment beginning is accurately synchronized to the voice so the subtitles would appear the same time the voice is heard…
If language is a barrier, then you could try to accumulate more experience for Korean through memorizing all the endings and honorifics, beginnings dictated by cgwm808. I memorized them all and they implicitly stay in the back of my mind while I segment… eventually Korean will become second nature to you the more you segment.
To me language is not a barrier. The language rules, pauses in speech etc… are quite universal across languages… The more experience you accumulate, the easier it gets. I personally segment Cantonese, Mandarin, Korean, Japanese, Spanish, English, Thai and Russian and they all seem about the same to me…
I know one popular Korean channel’s manager, she told me that she would not blankly reject a segmenter applying to her channel. However, the segmenter must submit a video of her work and let it be examined by cgwm808 to see their quality. If cgwm808 passes it, they are in the team. But… they must remain active and hardworking. They must not violate rules and segment before the video is split into 6 parts. As long as they maintain their quality, they will be consider for future projects too.
Since Korean dramas are live projects where segmenting of an episode of 6-parts must be done under an hour… we must have experienced segmenters on the channel…all the experienced Ko-En subbers are all standing-by waiting to rush in like Stampede Carnival… Most of the Seg101 graduates have been taught and know how to complete this mission under an hour with 95% quality in their segments. That is why Seg101 certification is highly encouraged if you are working on K-dramas… As an example, nowadays, nearly everyone goes to university to get a graduate diploma so they could work well in the society. The same case applies here…
I know Seg101 is trying to gather all the Seg101 mentors and tutors back together for Seg101 4th anniversary next month. Hopefully some of them would be willing to learn beta-segmenting and increase the intake of Seg101 Students, benefiting those who genuinely wants to learn.
As a newbie, I think I was given my chance at Glass Mask… I was glad I wasn’t gutsy enough to make bad segments a year ago potentially haunting my segmenting career forever…
I agree with you, K-drama is only for those who is willing to take on the pressure, time constraint and willing to segment for perfection (because these are the dramas VIKI invested a lot of money to buy the license and would be sold to Hulu and Netflix in the future).
I think Seg101 is like getting someone to provide you with constructive feedback so you know what you are doing right and what needs to be improved. It’s the easiest way to understand what you should do compared to what you are doing wrong right now…
I don’t think anyone could self-teach. Even one of my best friend who is a recent Seg101 graduate but have years of Korean drama segmenting experience, had a tutor that taught her on a Hindi drama, where she learned timing, length, synchronization etc…in the old timer. My best friend also told me she segmented a lot on unpopular channels using the techniques she learned in the old timer to adjust to beta-segment timer before she accepted projects again. That is why I said that you need a lot of practice, persistence and endurance to segment to perfection.
Despite I really want to teach everyone, I only have one pair of hands, one pair of eyes and a limited amount of time outside my real life. That is why I have set up this place so you could write me your concern and I will try my best to help you using my experience as a Seg101 Student, Graduate, Moderator and now a Mentor for Seg101 and Express 101.
I could not grade all your work, but I will try to give you helpful advice and feedback on your work p(^_^)q
Everyone out there, I highly advise you to learn from Lacruiser. He is a hard working Korean Channel Manager who went through our Seg101 program to learn how to segment well. To me, all channel managers must have Seg101 certification or at least have a dependable Chief Editor that has Seg101 Certification. If not, hire a QC check that has Seg101 certification. That way, they would have the skill and ability to resolve crisis in case your VIKI licensed channels’ segment timer is unlocked and some inexperienced segmenter drops by and segments your videos without leaving a note, you are practically up the creek then…
Channel managers must have the skill to adjust segments so in case you can’t find your Seg101 or experienced/dependable Power Segmenter friends around, you would have the ability to resolve your own crisis…
I remember before I became the CM of Two Fathers, I was the only hardworking English Moderator there. I assembled the coverpage, segmented by myself and had to fix multiple parts segmented by inexperience guest segmenters (with less than 50 to 100 segments)… Some segments were 20 seconds long, while others are like 0.4 seconds long, the timing and length were really random.
I seriously cried and I was only a newbie Seg101 graduate back then. I didn’t have all the Seg101 friends I have right now. The only person I know was my mentor Narin78. She and I spend about 1.5 hours each to fix one part of bad segments. I wrote to Mariko and Help Center screaming S.O.S and begging for a lock on the segment timer…
To make a long story short…if I didn’t take my mentor’s advice and have only Seg101 Graduates and Mentor at Two Fathers, speeding up the segmenting progress and allow the Chinese/Taiwanese Subbers to work on the videos… they would gradually lose interest and move on to another project. You must prove to them you are capable of bringing good segments for them to work with so they feel your sincerity and respect for their work…Your subbers must see that they are welcomed and appreciated. If they like the show itself, they will contribute on this project. If they like your channel management, they would like you as the manager and contribute on future projects too.
Hence, for those out there that segment 340,000+ segments within a year and do not respond to the constructive advice I send to you across PM… you are just shamelessly disrespecting hardworking subbers out there. Practically ruining these unpopular channels (i.e. Kings http://www.viki.com/tv/5517c-kings) that could of been platforms for interested segmenters to work on…
Lacruiser, please ask through VIKI help center to remove jibberish segments segmented by the same segmenter from these English channels and don’t attempt to remove them ourselves…You should be able to find infinite number of ruined drama channels here (http://www.viki.com/users/DebbyJones/contributions) for VIKI to have the segments removed and be segmented again for the benefit of all Vikians who wants to learn.
In a few cases of badly segmented channels I have critiqued the work and asked the “segmenter” to work on adjusting the segs. Some I have had Viki delete all and a few I have used to help teach newbies. If the segments are just a little off and perhaps just too short, that too can be a learning experience to adjust them. This helps people to get a feel for how segs are cut before actually having to make the cuts. It also helps get the channel back in shape.
That’s important too! When the training on a channel is complete, the channel should be in good segmented order, no matter what the channel.
Thanks for your feedback. If you know why I have explicit stated the bad Kings example there… please check your PM for further details…
In addition, if you are genuinely interested to teach segmenting, please come back and help out at Seg101 and Express 101. We are currently recruiting Seg101 graduates to help teach and keep the fire going…
The transition to Beta-segmenter was proven to be a hard-hit on our program, like a strong tsunami… many experience segmenters gave up and became passive viewers. We need passionate segmenters like you to help us out and keep Seg101 alive!
If you are interested to become a Tutor for Seg101 (95% standard) or Express 101 (about 80%+ standard)…let me know and I will tell Mint or Mihaelagh about it.
[quote=“AmyPun, post:73, topic:135”]To me it’s actually the technical bits that makes segmenting difficult…
I personally segment Cantonese, Mandarin, Korean, Japanese, Spanish, English, Thai and Russian and they all seem about the same to me…
[/quote]
Well, it is different for everyone. I do agree that languages all seem to have voice cues that you can pick up on, so you can pick up when someone starts/stops. But, at least for me, when there’s, for example, longer dialogue, I still have a hard time pinpointing how to cut segments. And each language has its own quirks. It could just be that I’m uncomfortable segmenting a language I don’t think I have a grasp of. For that reason, I tend only to segment Chinese (and on the off chance that I get, Korean) dramas, because they’re more familiar.
The reason I feel that technical aspects are easier to grasp is that the idea isn’t so difficult. If you’ve ever watched something with subs that come late, early, on time, I think you’ll understand that. And once you set the standard for what makes a late/early segment, all that requires is time/dedication. In that sense, I don’t think the tech bits are difficult so much as they are tedious.
And okay, maybe I’m just a bit too lax for Seg101, but a few tenths of a second early doesn’t feel much to me (unless it’s a tight scene with fast dialogue, then timing really needs to be on spot). As a viewer, I’ll agree that late segments can feel really off in the midst of properly timed segments though.
I can totally understand that having some kind of certification makes it easier to find qualified segmenters, etc. I’m just…I don’t know, disappointed that a Seg101 badge is pretty much the only certification I’ve seen.
So, personal tangent here. But if you’ll recall, you did invite me to join the program some months ago. There’s this stubborn view I’ve kept that I don’t necessarily want or need it. Not to say that I can’t improve my segmenting, but rather, I think it’s unnecessary and makes me overqualified for what I want to do.
I like segmenting Chinese/Taiwanese dramas, which I think I can do well. And I’d like to get on a Korean channel every so often, when I find one I’d enjoy. But I don’t need more than that. That’s the thing about Seg101 - you come out very qualified for whatever drama there is. But not everyone needs/wants that. Back to your diploma/degree analogy - I think there are tons of overqualified people with multiple degrees who get into a job that doesn’t require that much. (It’s ridiculous, but this is a whole other discussion.)
It’s definitely good to have a mentor right off the bat to show you the ropes - in the same way that it’s nice to have a teacher in school to ask your questions to, etc.
But I couldn’t disagree more that people can’t learn it on their own. It might take longer and more effort on their part, but it’s totally doable in my eyes. Obviously, there are tons of resources around now (discussions, your own guides, etc.) that a person wouldn’t really be on their own entirely anymore anyway.
You did an exceptional job on that channel (though it was clearly too long for me to keep up with). And while the whole business-like mindset of getting things done is understandable and even commendable, these kinds of comments always seemed…so exclusive to me - that only this one group of people should ever be allowed to segment on things. Maybe I’m just reading into it too much.
I’d still appreciate that, to be honest. For one, I think it helps people gauge whether or not they really want to segment. (On a personal level, I wouldn’t mind having places to legit practice if I felt I needed it.)
You mention starting with English language shows. I think that’s an interesting point, that people should start off with their most familiar language when segmenting. Sure, in the end, you should be able to segment in a variety of languages, but learning those technical points are probably easiest with a language you know. Best to ease someone into it, right?
@AmyPun I don’t really know the progression of Seg101, but what kinds of things do they start you off with?
I hope I didn’t post the same comment multiple times, the comment function was a bit weird that is why I am posting it again:
[quote=“scircus, post:70, topic:135”]
Thing is, pretty much every Korean channel I’ve come across only wants segmenters with
Of course, you are totally right. There has to be a “first Korean drama project”.
When I joined my “first Korean drama”, I didn’t have a 101 badge but I gathered some experience by working for some Fan Channels.
Back then, we got the old timer and I was trained by an experienced and great Power Segmenter. After my graduation from her program, she kept checking up on me and my work. If I hadn’t been trained by that power segmenter and if I hadn’t gathered some experience (before joining a Korean Drama), I would have never joined a Korean Drama Channel. After all, segments that are off just increase the editing work later as someone “Has” to fix it. Moreover, subbers are doing such a great job on viki. I guess, nobody wants to increase their work by cutting off segments.
I know many great segmenters who don’t have a 101 badge and work for licensed dramas (including K-Dramas) as a segmenters.
“Demanding experiences” doesn’t have to mean a 101 badge. There are many ways to gather some experiences.
And in the end: Even though it sounds weird, it is still true: we don’t “work just for ourselves”. Sure, actually we work for fun.
However, one should also think of think of the viewers, team members and so on who will watch the subbed episode/movie later. This is not about demanding “perfection” or something like that. Nobody is perfect. It is totally human to make mistakes. My point is that it rather about “mutual respect” and team work:
Subbers are spending their precious free time on subbing and thinking about tricky translations (as subbing is more than just “translating words”, it is tough job). Some subbers even stay up for a project. The same goes for segmenters who wait for an ep and might even lose some sleep (because of a delay of the new ep or something like that).
“Don’t mistake activity with achievement.” by John Wooden
This quote could be referred to segmenting as well: Segmenting without paying attention to the voice and the timing, is not that helpful for the subbers or the viewers.
And seriously: Who wouldn’t be annoyed to watch a drama that shows early, late subs and maybe even subs that disappear way too quickly from the screen. This doesn’t only apply to licensed Korean drama Channel but also to other Channels (including Fan Channels and so on).
The comments by viewers just right after the re-upload of an Ep by viki and right before viki starts the sync. process , shows that they don’t like off segments at all.
Oh, sorry, I think get off the topic:
About my first Korean project
It was a great experience. But I would advice a newbie not to jump in at the deep end before gathering some experiences in rather unpopular Channels. It is really not that easy to work for an on-air Drama. Especially because of voice issues, bugs and so on. It is way better to take small steps. This way it will be more comfortable later.
Well, that is just my opinion though based on my experiences.
Yes, it is true. It makes the Segmenting’ life way easier if you are familiar with a language. But “familiar” doesn’t mean inevitably that you have to learn that language.
For me: Watching many Asian Dramas ( my first language is German) helped me a lot in order to learn more about the different languages and its “traits”. For instance Japanese is really tricky and way different from Korean as some Japanese actors seems to lengthen words/sentences. And as I still have to learn more about all the foreign languages, I keep on watching Eng Subbed Asian Dramas (not that I mind that as I love watching Asian Dramas and movies).
For a longer quote, I would typically make the longer segment first, then try to listen and relisten to it a couple of times before finding the right spot with a short pause/gap to split the segment. When I find that spot, I pause and make the split then use checks and eclipse check to ensure it’s correct…
Despite each language sounds different, after you segment a couple of videos, you would feel that most languages are the same. That is why we said there is no borders to segmenting, you do not need to know the language to do well…That is the reason why Seg101 doesn’t only train Korean dramas, we have levels… The PVs are English and Korean, RPV1 is Korean, RPV2 is Japanese, RPV3 is unpopular (Indonesian, Russian, Spanish), RPV4 is Thai Lakorn, RPV5 is Taiwanese Hardsub and then you have extra practice videos in Korean, Taiwanese, Japanese raw etc… you must accumulate 2000 segment experience before you are allowed to graduate. That way you would be well equipped for future project…
For instance Jojoo, Dudie, Mazza and Mihaelagh, none of them understand Chinese yet they could segment flawlessly at Love Around without any issues. I never have to QC-check them at all.
You would be surprised that you don’t really have to deliberately invest tedious amount of time/dedication to do well. As long as you set a certain level of standard for yourself and have the heart or passion for quality, thinking of the viewers and subbers first… you would be able to do well. For instance on your channels, have you tried to observe some works (http://subber.viki.com/subtitlers/223705) of your segmenters and try to QC them for communal good? I personally think that QC-checking is good practice for learning timing.
Setting a good personal example yourself and have certain expectation for quality is a form of respect for yourself and your teammates.
Another form of certification is experience accumulated from working at Korean channels in the past. For instance bjohnsonwong doesn’t have Seg101 certification, yet she was chosen to segment at some Korean channels. Even newbies like Gina007 who have less than 2000 segment experience is segmenting at Korean Channels because she proved her abilities to do well. As long as you could prove you could segment well on a day to day basis, you are in.
I don’t think there is such thing as overqualified. There are only underachievers. If you plan on working for Licensed channels, the Seg101 forms the basis of your resume to them, proving your skill and ability. The Seg101 badge, Power Segmenter Status, your past, current, future projects forms your portfolio of VIKI experience. I think every company/channel wants that unless they are unlicensed fan channels which equates to Walmart and McDonalds in real life…
I have friends with many degrees like Law, Medicine, MBA too. However, they decide to become Bakers, Carpenters and stay-at-home moms… It’s their own passion and choice. However having the degrees give them the room to switch to different job or role in the future if they change their mind…Similarly, if you have the Seg 101 badge, you could work for both licensed or unlicensed channels without borders.
I highly recommend a mentor to teach you. If a teacher wasn’t helpful, why do we need to go through 12 years or more schooling in real life… We could basically buy textbooks and teach ourselves about it. There is no point for you to go to university to study engineering too. You can teach yourself about it and eventually get it.
I do agree that some people could self-learn, for instance Abraham Lincoln taught himself law with a couple of law books and eventually became a president of the United States. Hippocrates never went through Med school but manage to teach himself medicine and become one of the most outstanding figure in medicine. However, keep it mind those figures only existed in the past. Modern era has more complexity to the knowledge. It’s no longer possible to understand complex concept without any guide or assistance.
About my discussions and guide, not everyone could understand it fully without sufficient experience and practice. I get a lot of PMs about them. If I never answered them, they would of gave up trying to understand it a while ago. That proves that my indirect mentorship is necessary for these aspiring segmenters too…
Things aren’t always what they seem… segmenting may look easy…but you cannot judge a book simply by its cover. If everyone can segment well, we don’t always need the same group of people segmenting Korean Projects, there is a certain level of standard necessary to keep the channel in order and reduce the workload for everyone.
I didn’t do an exceptional job on the channel, if it wasn’t for all my friends’ unconditional support, jojoo taking over the English moderators work, resolving the chaos with the former channel manager and dedicated subbers and segmenters willing to help out, investing countless number of hours on my channel, the project would never of completed…I think the credits should be given to the dedicated and committed Two Fathers Team. Jojoo and I were truly amazed at the quality and speed of the Subtitles brought to us by Shaldane168 and others. If it wasn’t for the amazing subbers dedication to work on the channel, my Seg101 friends and I would not stay up until 4am to segment all the episodes for them to work with.
A team is not a one-man show… it’s depended on trust, dedication and effort of everyone. Everyone has their own role and must have the endurance to complete what they started off with. Therefore good segmenting forms the foundation for quality subtitles. I have trained one of my moderators Moaob how to segment too. She is not Seg101 but has the ability to segment well without the Seg101 certification.
For your channels, do you have a certain level of expectation for yourself as well as from your segmenters and subbers too? If you don’t want to hire Seg101, you can always follow one of my manager friend’s style, asking your seggers and subbers for a sample of their most recent work. It should work well that way too.
If you decide to accept a newbie, you are responsible to look after their work, giving them a certain level of guidance to improve. That is why I try to manage one channel at a time to maintain good parsimony. Do you dedicate the same level of care to your channels too?
I really hope your misconceptions about Seg101 would be resolved from my answers above. However I do assume the matters pertaining to this case is closed and there is no need to elaborate any further. The main purpose of this discussion is to discuss how to improve segmenting and not debating about the works of Seg101.
Sorry for going off topic on the thread - I’ll stop with this stuff after this one last post, promise.
The thing about your comparisons is that segmenting isn’t like rocket science or something. You can argue that it’s more complex than that, and I won’t disagree - but at the core, segmenting comes down to cutting when you hear dialogue. Don’t make it out to be some kind of complex process.
I know people who might agree with that, but I can’t. Especially because we’re not doing research, where the more you know, the more you’ll discover or something. And anyway, overqualified and underachieving aren’t mutually exclusive.
Up until now, I’ve just held different views on things and I’ve been fine with that. But this little bit offends me, maybe more than it should? The discussion about working at Walmart or McD’s aside, you seem to be belittling fan channels. Viki was built on fan channels… It’s fine if you don’t want to work on them, but a lot of people put in a lot of effort (just like on official channels) to sub on those channels too. There are tons of fan channels that work to keep top quality too. Just putting that out there.
To close. I mentioned Seg101 primarily to show that it wasn’t for everyone, that’s all. Like I said, sorry I took the discussion off course, but I think I’ve gotten a bunch out of it.
If segmenting is so simple, I wouldn’t have sufficient material to write an infinitely long segmenting diary with endless topics to cover…
Moreover, I would never have so much material to record on how to segment. Soon I would feature what bad segmenting is and how to QC check time. I am also going to write a lesson about segmenting Russian Raw after my exams. This is what I mean the difficulty and challenge to segmenting.
If you think segmenting is as simple as cutting to hearing the dialogue, you are not doing it careful enough.
A good segmenter will never refuse constructive feedback or assume they are already doing their best. They would occasionally ask others like cgwm808 for feedback and how to improve it. To me, there are no limits to segmenting, only plateaus. That is why segmenting is addictive to segmenters as we always try to find new ways to improve speed and accuracy.
About research and discovery, if it wasn’t for Moaob proving to me that my grading was late for her videos, challenging my verdict, I wouldn’t have realized and discovered the left-eclipse method and later the right-eclipse method for checking the timing and synchronization of segments. I discovered it and found it useful to teach my Seg101 student from July onwards. Serendipity discoveries is what makes segmenting interesting.
In addition, timing is not everything to segmenting. You also have to adjust your segment length accordingly to the speed of the dialogue, whether it’s okay to have one person in a segment or two/three people in a segment depends on the situation. Your ending length varies depending on the length of dialogue and adjusted accordingly. Some people just like to have a fixed ending length and that is fine too. Developing your own segmenting style is fun too. I know the way Mihaelagh, Luz, Dudie and I segment are different. “All Roads lead to Rome”… as long as you could complete your duty at the end of the day, it’s all that matters.
I agree that gray area exists between over-qualification and underachievement. I never said they were mutually exclusive. It’s like saying there isn’t only black, there is white too. You read too much between the lines.
You said a Seg101 badge over qualifies you to work at certain channels. I think you are belittling Fan channels here too since you said Seg101 is like a prerequisite for Licensed Korean Channels. Your statement also implies that anyone who wants to segment can go ahead and segment at Fan channels all they want without paying as much attention to quality. As long as the videos are segments, its all that matters. A sensei of mine once taught me that there are no such thing as bad segments is better than no segments. Good segmenters won’t mind segmenting an extra part.
Lastly, I never forgot that VIKI was build upon fan channels. However, haven’t you noticed the trend that VIKI is trying to license those Taiwanese, Chinese ones that used to be fan channels in the past. Viki is no longer being ran exactly the same way as it was during it’s Viikii times. We must learn to adjust and adapt to the current management.
Simply getting a video segged and subbed to 100% doesn’t always equate to quality. We must also have a strong team of editors (some are lawyers and law students) so we could ensure best subtitles are offered to our audience and to be translated to other languages too.
I agree with you that Seg101 is not for everyone, especially those who don’t think they are able to accept constructive criticism and be taught like a boot camp. If you are not genuinely interested to segment well and contribute to VIKI and Seg101 in the future and are those that easily give up, Seg101 is not suitable for you. That way you are not wasting your own time neither are you wasting the time of the mentors who teach you. Many of them are law, medical students and professionals in real life that spend their free time to teach you how to segment.
For instance, a student who gave up at the very end was proven to be a devastating shock to my mentor. Because of that incident, my mentor said she has lost her passion to teach and is taking a long hiatus. I was deeply sadden to hear that.
Scircus, I hope this finally marks the end of this never-ending debate. The main purpose of this discussion was to teach segmenting skills and share it with people who don’t have the time to take Seg101 yet or are still contemplating about it. It’s also welcomed to those who wants to try and self learn and see whether they are able to do so without going through the long waiting list for the Seg101 program. I also try to provide friendly advice from my personal experience as I’ve been a segmenter before and after transition to new viki website, from classic to beta-segment timer, from a self-taught segmenter to a segmenter who accumulated a small amount of experience after Seg101 graduation.
Thanks for all your well-thought feedback to my discussion post.
Thanks for your feedback and sharing with us all your experience as a segmenter before and after the VIKI transition and before and after you graduated Seg101.
I should really thank your former mentor for teaching you to segment well with quality, it made my experience much more enjoyable when I taught you Seg101. Without Tika0614, I’m certain many of her former students who decided to take Seg101 in the future would not been able to master the segmenting techniques so quickly. Tika was the one that laid the foundation, put in the effort to polish her students into a gem. I was only there to give do some minor dusting to reveal your shine.
To me, another issue of new segmenters is that they tend to segment too fast and not pay too much attention to their quality or they just don’t know how to pay attention to their quality because nobody gave them any piece of advice…
As a preview to my QC check posts in the near future, I present you with this video:
In this video, you should see how difficult it is for some new segmenter to segment a video, but making it difficult for subbers to sub it.
For instance, you would see two speakers on the same segment that should be split and have half of the dialogue in the next segment be inserted into the previous segment we just split.
The beginnings are often early, therefore, we had to adjust it so it matches the voice.
There are also many mini-gaps between segments that causes flashes on screen that gives audience headaches.
As a segmenter, we always think of the subbers and audience ahead of ourselves. That is why I reiterate time and again why quality is more important than quantity…
Please feel free to comment below about what you see in the video I’ve inputted here. I’m happy to answer why I adjusted the pre-existing segments the way I did.
As promised yesterday, I will share with everyone today how to Quality-Check (QC) segments to ensure they are good quality for your subbers and viewers.
Now, let’s pause and see how I determine where adjustments should be made. I pause right where the voice start and where a segment should be split into two.
In the video above, I showed you exactly how I fix the video so it is synchronized to the voice. That way the subtitles would be synchronized to the dialogue heard.
After the corrections are made. We must refresh the browser and use eclipse-check to ensure all the segments are actually well-timed.
The video shows how I replayed and rechecked the segments once more after they are fixed for timing, length and so on. I also replayed it to show you what synchronized segments look like.
I hope you have gained some insight as to how to quality check and synchronized segments based on the videos shown above.
If you have any questions about how to quality check segments. Please feel free to comment below and I would be glad to answer any inquiries you may have.
Looking back, my first segmenting project was a disaster! I just watched the viki video and that was it. Now that I’m learning to become an accurate segmenter, I always go back to that first project and make adjustments here and there from the tips and pointers shared by my mentor and also the knowledge shared by you and several power segmenters.
One of the biggest problems I face in segmenting is a hard sub video. The hardsubs come first before the voice. I know there is no hard and fast rule when it comes to segmenting hard sub videos like you pointed out. But I would like the segments to be of the same standard for the viewers benefit in all the episodes. So what I do is ask the Channel Manager what their preference is,i.e. either to segment according to the hard sub or to the voice. I think it depends on the Channel Manager’s instructions/preference really.
I think accurate segments are precious because they give that coherence to the overall viewing pleasure of the user/viewer. My first segmenting project is still being re-edited and it’s a work in progress. But I believe I’m reaping all the benefits by learning how to provide accurate segments.
Thanks for your compliment, I’m glad you find it helpful.
I know, trying to segment by yourself can be a segmenting nightmare for some. I think my first experience was from segmenting hardsubs, so I did have something to follow and it wasn’t as bad. However as mentioned in one of my posts:
I only know how to segment to the appearance and disappearance of hardsubs, that was why I only segmented the character names and title of the show. When I saw the video was raw and no hardsubs were available to follow, I frantically panicked. Luckily I backed out of the project, or else I know my segments at Glass Mask would haunt me for life if I continued to finish the project.
To me, hardsubs are challenging. Luckily I only work on Taiwanese Channels so the hardsubs’ timing are not too bad or off. My person preference is segmenting to Hardsubs only. I don’t segment to the voice to confuse myself on Hardsub. The reasoning is covering the hardsub is better onscreen appearance for the audience, they won’t have to guess “Hey, why are there white Chinese words there and no translation for it???”
Fighting on your Seg101 studies, Tishafi is a great mentor and you are lucky to become her student. You must finish the program and not let her down. I’m cheering you on.
Please let me know what is your favorite cartoon character, I would need it for future reference
I think I feel the same as you do. When I look back to my Seg101 days and see my videos, I was like, what in the world was I thinking when I segged that!
I think endless amount of experience on live-project really help me grow and have better grasp of my segment timing and technique, also idea of where to split or combine segments. I think I still have a lot to learn though.
Thanks to Seg101 for helping me lay the foundation and Marykarmelina’s wise words of encouragement:
** “Fly and segment on your own from now on!” - Marykarmelina**
MaryK gave me the confidence to trust myself and try out new things. I also have to thank my mentor Narin78 and friends of Seg101 (cgwm808, Mihaelagh, Mazza, jojoo, Dudie, Tou66, RoxieHar, Luzclarita81, and many others) for providing me with endless feedback on my segmenting diary and segmenting work. I don’t think I would have improved and my Seg101 students would of graduated without them. A Big Thank You to You All!!!
Today I’m going to teach you how to QC-check segments on a Korean Drama. I believe it would benefit many segmenters who aspire to become Korean segmenters to take a look at how I correct an example with you here.
Let’s review a Korean channel together, shall we???
Below is a screenshot showing some of the errors I saw:
I have indicated using colored boxes what actually needs to be edited so that subbers won’t have a difficult time subtitling it and the audience would have an enjoyable time watching the drama.
The red boxes indicates mini-flash gaps between segments, they would flash on screen, causing headaches for viewers. The red boxes also indicate areas where there are apparent early or late segments.
The green box shows where the segment should be extended and split so that the boy’s dialogue would be complete and the girl would have her own segment after.
The pink box indicates where the segment is really late, the teacher began her lecture before the subtitle box appeared.
All these timing error would add up, resulting in decrease in enjoyment for the viewers and increasing the trouble for our hard-working subtitlers. Subbers already have a lot of translation difficulties they have to resolve. Therefore a segmenter must not create bad segments increasing their workload and burden!
Now, let’s pause and see how I determine where adjustments should be made. I pause right where the voice start and where a segment should be split into two.
In the video above, I showed you exactly how I fix the video so it is synchronized to the voice. That way the subtitles would be synchronized to the dialogue heard.
I have turned both early and late segments into well-timed segments. Then I have extended the endings to eliminate flash gaps appearing on-screen.
Before corrections were made:
After corrections were made:
As you can see in the screenshots taken before and after the corrections are made, the corrected video has more accuracy in terms of timing, extended endings for better screen presentation, also the flash-gaps are eliminated for better on-screen appearance.
After the corrections are made. We must refresh the browser and use eclipse-check to ensure all the segments are actually well-timed. Double-checking is also the key to good-segments.
