Spanish presubs are awful šŸ¤¦ā€ā™‚ļø

The professional means that a human, given time and effort, composes sentences with the idea that, if you had, for example, no auditory experience, you would be able to ā€˜tell the taleā€™ without missing any important details of the story. Even with the ā€˜newā€™ pace. It may seem like a compromise, but for decades, it has maintained such high standards that viewers rarely complain about hardcoded subtitles in the Netherlands. Live subtitles are also a significant part of the Dutch TV experience, with the same origin story. A professional Dutch subtitler must consider Dutch subtitles from an accessibility pov. Subtitles are always an option here because we only dub childrenā€™s content. Even then, we offer ā€˜the originalā€™ with subtitles (e.g., in cinemas). In regular Dutch television, the way people speak (which should not be compared to dramas, Person A - Person B) was not that common; we have moved towards it because the Dutch have always offered American or British TV. Sequences of Dutch segments are always edited in a way that allows for speech beyond the shot. Their message is thatā€”whatever the source, except for a human with time and good payā€”puts accessibility at zero.

This country is the best and simultaneously the worst example, haha.
I work in this business, and I always have to keep in mind that on Viki, much more context is of importance. If you look at the same show from another source, subtitles feel cold and literal. This has nothing to do with accessibility anymore but with time. What is enough to give the audience the idea that they are reading a conversation (for example). So if either AI or human subs are that bad, it sure does hurt!

This is why humans will always remain amazing in our collective eyes (as stated in the article too). We are able to juggle and use vocabulary so effectively and efficiently that the same essence remains with fewer words. In our own context (!). If you follow any study or course on subtitles here, youā€™re forced to think, ā€˜If I were Dutch, in my thirties, and in a business environment, how would one speak?ā€™ What the article doesnā€™t mention and something AI will never be able to foresee unless we give it the input, is that language is fluid; if you look at a Dutch network now, the translations or transcript seems old and formal. New compromises are necessary that machine learning will not take into account, but people still have to if they want to outsmart the money grabbers.

I guess that in my reply Iā€™m forgetting the angry people, the ones who pay and/or demand. Are they truly willing to take the bad over delay? I wonder often.

P.S. I hope I didnā€™t sound too critical, nor too much in favour of the Dutch (lol). Of all the things I find odd here, the accessibility (and its laws!) is something to applaud. From another perspective, one might call this a privilege (try to convince a Dutch business person that being creative is a job).

I had thoughts haha. I feel strongly with you all for the other language subtitlers and viewers.

4 Likes

About french, my language, thereā€™s something I donā€™t understand and even bother me. The french NSSA started this year and thatā€™s great. The team makes us sharpen our skills and the quality of our work - and theyā€™re doing an amazing job. Thatā€™s a good thing for everyone. Weā€™re able to offer better translation for the viewers. But in the same time, Viki makes the choice of speed instead of quality. Why ? Just, why ?

8 Likes

Weā€™ll soon be asked to become editors. Just like what happened to the segmenters.

3 Likes

Because ā€¦ priorities!
Vikiā€™s priority is to keep paying customers happy.
Customersā€™ priority is to have the subtitles as soon as possible because they canā€™t wait to know what happened in the new episode.
There are some who are not in such a hurry and prefer to wait for quality subtitles. But they are the minority.

Our work is for:

  1. that minority who is willing to wait
  2. the future viewers who will come to watch after the show is almost or completely fnished, even months and years later (and there are many such viewers). Or re-watch it, if they liked it a lot.

So our work is not in vain. I am reminding everyone and myself, for when we are overcome by pessimism and start thinking ā€œWhy am I doing this effort?ā€

5 Likes

We do not accept bas presubs and support volunteers !

3 Likes

Exactly ! French is a complex language. We use tu and vous on different people and different occasions. There is no way AI can get it right.
That is just an example, there are all kinds of subtleties in every language that are not machine doable.

3 Likes

We do not accept bad presubs and support volunteers! machine translations is not the way to please viewers

2 Likes

Machine translation is not the way to please viewers!

3 Likes

As a volunteer Spanish subtitler, I cannot begin to express how disappointed and discouraged I feel whenever Iā€™m interested in collaborating on a project and discover that the series already comes with pre-subtitles. I understand that the Spanish-speaking community has been very vocal about wanting subtitles available from day one, but at what cost?

At the end of the day, I know this is a platform that needs to make money, but in the long run, is making a quick buck even worth it? As someone mentioned above, we need to provide quality subtitles for people who havenā€™t joined the platform yet and for those who want to rewatch the series. This is what will ensure loyalty and subscriber engagement.

8 Likes

We have no right to do A&C let alone delete

1 Like

We have indeed no right to delete it all and start from scratch, but we definitely have the right Ɣnd the moral duty to do A&C!

6 Likes

Thatā€™s not true. We are allowed to do A&C. Viki even writes this in the mail for the CMs.

The CM just has to make sure that the CS knows how to handle it. It is even taught to the students at the Segging Academy. The entire NSSA program has therefore been revised.

6 Likes

NSSA has changed to adapt to the new normal on Viki, we have adjust only at Level 2 (thatā€™s one of the levels I teach) but on higher levels there are A&C with multiple languages. At the moment Iā€™m a seggers on shows with more than 2 languages (the one with most has 4) that is A&C not adjust only. Viki is changing all the time so itā€™s easy to miss if you arenā€™t on d.scord or discussion reading things (or NSSAs page).

5 Likes

The other day I burst out laughing and went straight to my daughter to share the laughter. You see, on YT they have Spanish translated only dramas, and when they translate the Spanish to English they always make tons of mistakes that are so laughable it hurts my sides.

Example from Chinese drama.

LARGO, LARGO, LARGO!

For fluent Spanish speaker, reader, writer: is easy to recognize that the translation was VERY wrong.

Largo in Spanish has several meaning and one of them is GET OUT! or LEAVE!
Iā€™m guessing it was an AI translation and ANOTHER word for LARGO is LONG.

You guessed what they wrote in English?
LONG, LONG, LONG!

According to the scene FL was ā€˜ā€˜kicking outā€™ā€™ the ML so the correct English translation should have been Get out or Leave (there may be many other words used in other countries).

Anyway, the point is that MAYBE if they had used the word [VETE] which means LEAVE the LONG translated version mistake could have been avoided.

I DONā€™T understand why RakutenViki is using AI for their Spanish translations when they have so many people willing and able to give better translation in Spanish, although we have abusers wanting to sub in the Spanish Language that they have no business translating (but thatā€™s another topic). I donā€™t know whatā€™s the RUSH for vikiā€™s viewers either. Que sera, sera. We can get get blue in our faces and never get an honest explanation from this site.

PS. My daughter didnā€™t find it funny since sheā€™s (trying) learning her forgotten Spanish, and sheā€™s frustrated encountering similar situations. I believe she gave up already, and I have to thank these useless translations (mainly done by AI translations).

5 Likes

It feels quite sad that my days as a Spanish subber is coming to an end, I think viki created the TE reward thing because they knew more languages were going to become presubbed. And as a viewer I have to admit I do like fast subtitles, so I relate to viki and the viewers.:smiling_face_with_tear:

I cannot relate to people wanting bad subtitle but fast. I am French subtitler, editor and moderator. When I am lucky enough to get a project to moderate, I have it subbed in as less time as possible with quality subtitles. I rely on a team to help me get the job done. I think Viki could change thing by letting us do the translation before it is available to the public.

6 Likes

I think the problem is that Viki gets (some) shows later than other streaming platforms, so they try to make up for it by getting it out asap. You can make subscribers stay if they know the show will be available here soon AND with good subtitles in many languages, however if they have already watched it elsewhere and it happens to them more often, they will give up on Viki and move on.

2 Likes

We have three cases

** KCW shows.**
KCW understandably wants to be the first to make its own shows available, so Viki has them hours later. In this case I can understand that every hour counts and they need to have the translation made ASAP.
** N-F shows.**
Those are available on Viki months after the first release, because of the license agreements between them. In that case, one day or two later makes no difference at all.
** All others (I think the majority).**
Those are shown very soon after airing. Here is the rub. Ī—ere is the case when the viewers have a choice, wait a little bit for quality subtitles or not. And Viki didnā€™t want to leave them a choice to go watch elsewhere and maybe stop renewing their subscription. No matter how much we clamor, itā€™s veeeery unlikely that something will change.

3 Likes

Other examples of french presubs : Painkiller becomes antiacide (yes antacid), they changed the prescription. Rein (kidney) becomes rien (nothing) So heā€™ll get a nothing transplant. And some sentence have so many negatives that it takes a while to understand. They also use old expressions that no one uses anymore. So please, donā€™t think we only need a TE to fix it.

6 Likes

The Mr./Ms./Miss problem wasnā€™t the worst. When the 2FL was going to get more clients, the machine translated ä½ ęŒØäøŖę‰“å°±č”Œäŗ†" = You can beat them (potential clients) one by one." Women Walk the Line would have been better off starting with human subs rather than Mango subs. It was an editing nightmare.
image_2024-11-17_133025477

2 Likes