I’m glad Viki is letting the CM know about the changes, al least. I still wish Viki would give us an explanation as to why the change was necessary. Oh, well.
3 Likes
A bit late to the party I guess, but what this topic is about is the main reason I’m never gonna translate on VIKI, especially for free! Their system is not good enough to make a proper sub.
I do my official subs on Subedit, so I can do anything, but I’m pretty sure you can’t do half of that in VIKI’s editor.
100 CPS is ridiculous, I have 25-40 CPS limits based on Streaming platforms. HBO MAX is usually 40 and NF is around 25-30. Many people tend to translate every word even tho it’s unnecessary, not to mention notes that are also unnecessary. I mean, this is a Kdrama streaming, and most viewers are fans, so they know what those words mean, and if not, the notes should have a separate line that you can align to the top/center. I’ve seen a LOT of translators still using “sunbae”, “eonni”, “oppa”, hyung" etc. 40 CPS is perfect if you make your sub in a separate program like Subedit, because you can merge or split lines the way you want, time it etc., but I’m not sure if you can fix the timing of a sub or insert new lines here on VIKI. In short, 100 CPS is pretty much enough in every language if you don’t do word-to-word translating, because 99% of the time, that’s the only reason people reach the limit.
BTW, why VIKI is still censoring NF’s name here? This is so childish.
I think you have troubles to understand how Viki works. Certainly, timing can be adjusted, but you change it for all languages. It’s way too unrealistic to rework some old drama with 20+ languages because the segments are too long years later to match the current character limit. It’s not much of an issue with recent dramas. However, Viki does translate more on-screen text and lyrics compared to other platforms. One of the mentioned platforms has a character limit of 43 characters per line. Viki has 100 per segment.
Even if many people know “oppa,” it’s not necessarily the case with Chinese, Thai or Japanese terms.
5 Likes
Yes, I fully agree that it’s best you’re never going to translate on Viki.
3 Likes
I worked for D+ when they had an inbuilt editor like VIKI, and it was a MESS! Translators asked them to remove it, and they did. Now, the problem is solved, you just need to send them an SRT or STL file.
Trust me, if you give me ANY old drama subs (Korean, Chinese etc) I can fix it for you in no time, even if you ask me to not remove a single word from the original sub.
Most of the time, the subs have 3 lines, because 1 is a note about what “oppa” means or some other explanation, and as I said, those notes should be in a separate segment. And let’s be real, in real life we don’t use “oppa”, onee-chan" etc, that’s only used by Korean and Japanese people.
In SubEdit, I can use one single click, and it fixes the whole sub, basically, you just need a couple of minutes to check if everything is correct. So the problem isn’t really the fact that VIKI translate on-screen texts or lyrics or adding notes, the problem is that they add it to an already existing line, and it makes even harder to read, even tho the main line is too long already.
Well, I made fan subs for anime and Japanese live-action shows and movies for over a decade, I know fans love to do word-to-word translating and keep honorifics and all that jazz, but in real life, that’s not the proper way to translate.
A real professional can translate a sub without losing the original meaning, even if they have a 40CPS limit.
Like I said, many translators don’t want to shorten their subs because they fear they might lose the meaning, but if you just remove the unnecessary honorifics, the names of the characters when it’s not necessary and other things, it’s pretty easy to remain in 100CPS.
Keep it short and sweet.
Here’s a basic example, this is what’s wrong with most subs on VIKI:
Original Korean: 나는 일본 사람이에요 (11)
English: I am a Japanese person. (23)
This is too long for no reason, this is the same meaning with almost the same character number as the original: “I’m Japanese.” (13)
3 Likes
You weren’t active on Viki, so you probably don’t know that the communication is very limited - and so are any changes. If anything, helpful things such as reference subtitles got removed and segmenting is already time-consuming with the current dramas and the initial ~4-6 languages. So there are no capacities to rework a few hundred old dramas with long segments.
Translation Notes usually don’t add too much to the segment, even with the limit. Things are only explained once anyway, and some explanation can be easily skipped. I won’t discuss the translation style now, of course there are more conservative translation styles where you substitute anything with the full name, for example. Here it’s part of the freedom we have. However, the segmenting rules on Viki may differ from other platforms. Not to forget, it takes months to do the exam.
You’re partly talking to professional translators here. Viki does not necessarily follow those, but it’s not like people lack knowledge or cultivation. It’s rather about the “why.” We are not getting paid, right, but we gain more freedom in sharing our interests with the audience. But it’s not like the goal is to provide subtitles that can’t be read in time or anything.
Usually, it’s not about English either, but when I translate some 2023 nowadays it’s quite a challenge to shorten tons of overly long segments that were made based on old rules.
It might not be important in case of on-screen text like this:
[In order to warn and crack down on smuggling activities, the Beijing Public Security Bureau has decided to hold a public trial hearing on the 18th. We hope the general public will participate to root out smuggling.]
[Eine öffentliche Anhörung findet am 18. statt. Wir bitten um Teilnahme, um Schmuggel auszurotten.]
But it’s a thing in case of long dialogues and more than two speakers.
What’s even the point here? Telling fans to be more professional? That’s what you’d call work then where you select people based on their abilities. If Viki wants to rely on it, they can, but that’s not up to anyone of us here.
3 Likes
You’re right, but I do know VIKI barely communicates with people. I don’t blame the translators, EXCEPT if they’re making HUGE mistranslations. It’s all on VIKI they don’t offer better options to do this job properly, because IT IS A JOB! I can’t believe a big company like VIKI can’t afford to pay for the subs when every other streaming platform can do it. They’re basically stealing all of your time. They’re lucky fans do this, because they could do it separately, fan made subs have been always in a gray zone.
I have to disagree with this one. I mean, “Mr. Queen” is not an old show it’s only 5 years old, and I’ve seen 3 lines in one of the episodes, including with the note. You have to reduce the text size to Medium, but then you won’t see a thing because the sub is so small. On large, it’s basically the half of the screen. That’s why VIKI should provide a duplicate segment for notes, so translators can align it to top/center.
What exam? VIKI has an exam?
There is an academy run by the volunteers. For segmenters, it’s obligated.
So, fan subbers not only translate for free, but they run a whole “academy” as well? That’s next level lazy from VIKI.
I watched one of the video about the editing and timing, and it looks like there’s not much option to fix a sub except the timing. Like, adding a new segment for TL notes is pretty much impossible. VIKI’s editor is basically the same what D+ used in their early days. Shame really, because if they could implement a real editor like SubEdit it would make the job easier and faster.
Honestly, it would be much better if you can just do your sub in Subedit and upload the SRT or STL file to their server, but they would never do that because for that you need access to the video file too, and I don’t think they would trust every fan subber who doesn’t have an official contract like at the other streaming platforms.
The “old” isn’t about how old the show is but when it was subbed. You might have missed it even though this whole topic is about this: there are new limits since April this year. Before that, the limit was 250 characters. Now it’s 100 excl. formatting.
No, I understand what this topic is about, but my point is if VIKI wouldn’t be lazy as hell, they could implement a better editor and the 100CPS limit wouldn’t be a problem. It’s only an issue, because the translators don’t have an option to do this properly, you can’t break or merge 2 or even 3 segments if it’s necessary, if you could do that the 100 limit is not a big deal.
I can do these things with 2 clicks and I only have to fix the line breaks to make it look clean. Translators only need 3 new options: adding a new segment for notes with the same timing as the main segment, and the option to merge or break a segment if the line is too long or too short. That’s all, but VIKI never going to do this. They don’t care, because everyone used to this system and formatting, and even if many people hate it and complain, VIKI doesn’t care and won’t say a word anyway.
Maybe I’m just too perfectionist. My OCD can’t handle segments like these, for example:
When it could be like this:
1 Like
I wonder why you put so much energy in explaining to us what’s wrong here, since you don’t work on the shows.
5 Likes
Isn’t it obvious? Because I’m paying for this service and VIKI can’t do the bare minimum. They don’t even have a proper sub formatting setting for viewers. If I pay for something, I expect PERFECT quality. Not only subtitles, but video quality is as well. It’s 2025, and they still don’t have 4K or even FHD, not in Europe at least.
It was actually 255.
We can’t have more than 1 segment on screen at the same time.
We can split or combine the segments, although nowadays, it’s more work because of all the presubs we need to save in the process.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to complain about it to Viki and not to the volunteers who can’t do anything about it? This topic was meant as a source of information for volunteers who work on shows, which you are not. Viki won’t look for any unsatisfied customers in this thread, I’m afraid. You might want to try their customer service. A good feedback is always valuable.
1 Like
I know, and that’s nonsense, because if you add a TL note it messes up the whole sub. TL notes or subs for on-screen texts usually goes to the top/center so it won’t disturb the viewer. I don’t mind TL notes, it’s useful in many cases, but VIKI really should give you guys a proper editor, but I’m sure I’m in the minority who has a problem with this.
The presub is that bad? Wonder when VIKI will implement AI subs like NF, I said no so many times when they asked me to correct AI made subs, I can’t even count. For HALF the price, btw. I don’t do QC for AI but sadly, I think that’s the future.
Like someone else said it above, they never communicate! I wrote so many emails, but never got any answers. So, I can only complain here, but I don’t blame the volunteers, like at all, unless they’re making huge translation errors. That wasn’t my intent at all. What I said, is actually means I want a much better workplace for every translator. They’re literally limited, not because of this 100CPS limit, but because they have to work with an editor that’s still in a beta phase, basically.
I’m not a volunteer, but it still affects me as a viewer, and as you may know, the consumer is the most important.
Not as bad as in the past, though it depends on the show.
They already do that, though not for all shows.
Sometimes, the subs come from the content provider, with whatever quality they provide. In other cases, Viki has paid subbers who correct AI or, occasionally, translate from scratch before airing.
This happens at least for the presub languages: English, Portuguese, Spanish, French and sometimes a few other languages. For those languages, the volunteers can only edit and sometimes, depending on the license agreement, not even that.
For the segmenters, this means they can’t segment from scratch anymore. In the past, the seggers would cut the segments, then the English subbers would come in, then the English editors, and after that, other languages would translate from English.
Now, the segmenters edit the existing segments while saving at least 4 languages, one by one, in the process. And nowadays, the other languages don’t have to wait for the English subs to be edited anymore so they just take over the mistakes.
I fully agree with you on this. AI can be good for some things, but translating is not one of them. It can never beat a human translator, unless it’s a very bad one. Then again, how good will human translators be in the future if everyone grows up with crappy subtitles?
But sadly, the majority of the viewers don’t seem to care for quality at all or might not even notice the difference. They just want their subs and they want them now. And Viki does whatever to try to keep up with the bigger companies.
We do feel this. The (paying) viewer gets more appreciation than the hard-working volunteer.
3 Likes
Quality translators never gonna extinct I think. At least, I hope. A few people will always want to be professional and learn new languages.
This is true, but only because they don’t speak the original language, and sometimes they’re not good at their native languages either, so they can’t spot the mistakes. I’m not fluent in Korean, far from it, actually, but I can see if an ENG SUB is quality or not. When D+ debuted, so many people used Google to “translate” the subs, and the company just let them do it, because who cares, there’s a dub as well, the sub doesn’t matter most people hate reading subs anyway. Then, why are you paying for machine made subs? Because it was much cheaper than a real translator. At least, this part of D+ is changed.
I mean, that’s why fan subbers should say: “You either pay us or close the shop.” Without volunteers, VIKI would go bankrupt in a couple of months. I mean, they have some paid translators, but that’s just English and maybe 3-4 other languages? Not sure, but the rest is free. I think if everyone stops doing this, VIKI would lose 70% of their subs, but the fans love to do this even if it’s for free, and VIKI earning millions while watching you all suffer. Madness.
1 Like