@choitrio
re: working with the paid subbers. The name of the viki subber used to be given to us. After several instances of my writing to viki community support to pass on my suggestions, viki staff gave me “permission” to write to the subber(s) directly. I have worked often with someone who has had the longest tenure as a viki paid subber. I would write to her especially on legal terminology to explain a concept such as an exigent arrest without a warrant so that the next time she encountered the term, she would correctly translate to English, or to explain the Korean counterpart to in flagrante delicto. But in the past two years or so, the subs seem to be all written by “viki” so how do we work with an anonymous person(s)? Because of inconsistency in character naming on some dramas, I suspect more than one subber is working an episode, most likely in the interest of speed.
If I should spot a repeated error and think it worth my while to write to community support about the error, community support may not respond for weeks or months or never. Is it a worthwhile endeavor if in an OST, the published lyric says 나를 (me) but for some reason the subber subs the lyric with “you” as the direct object in the line? Is it worthwhile if because of the way the paid subber segmented, she connected two phrases from two different sentences so the meaning of the subtitle is very different from what the screenwriter intended. By the time the communication reaches the subber, if ever, the series is completed.
Now viki is telling channel managers that no editing of the English subtitles will be allowed. So how does that instruction facilitate “working with” the paid subbers?
@cerejacult
English subtitling of Korean has rarely been as fast as viewers demand from the very start. Back in 2009, we would wait weeks and sometimes months before English subs were completed, expecially on 60 episode dramas. In very rare instances, as in Queen In Hyeon’s Man, for which I was Chief Editor, we volunteers produced completed subtitles for 16 episodes in 7 days for English, Spanish, and Portuguese. The English subtitles were edited, including two or three translation edits, several times before release to the other languages. It seems that the more Korean to English subbers joined viki, the more viki widened the scope of broadcasters from which licenses were obtained, so the work expanded far faster than the number of competent subbers. We have never had the luxury of so many subbers that we could assign parts to 12 people, each to sub 1/2 part, which I understand was occasionally done for Portuguese or Spanish.
I don’t know if is just me, but people are too immediatist now. I was only a viewer before starting volunteering and I used to wait for 2, 3 days before the english subs were complete for me to watch the episode. I personally didn’t mind that much because since the beginning I was aware that volunteers were doing it. But with all these streams, people are thinking Viki is the same and want the subs now and not a second after that. Is really tiring. I have a real respect for all of you who are here for more than ten years.
Unfortunately, times are changing and instant gratification is expected. Viki is just doing what it has to in order to stay competitive, which is making contents available as fast as it can. “Time is money.” To be honest, I think the demanding viewers are at the heart of the problem. English, Portuguese, and Spanish speaking viewers are the largest and most demanding groups so Viki is doing what it thinks will solve the problem.
This may sound coldhearted but I don’t think this site will ever go back to being volunteer-centric. We can be sad about it, complain about it, or even push against the changes that are occurring but what would be more productive is to find a way to contribute alongside the Viki staff and paid subbers (I believe the paid subbers also segment as well) or decide to bow out and keep the good memories.
Cooperation with the staff was posssible in the past, when they still mingled with us. Nowadays, they live in their own bubble and they usually do their job long before we come in on a temporary presub channel and then when the show comes, their subs are uploaded under the name “Viki” so that it’s hard to even find out who they are.
On the rare occasions where segmenters get to segment the show first, the paid subbers mess with our segments while they are subbing without even consulting the CS.
And up till this point, we might have been able to live alongside each other, be it each group on its own planet. But by introducing OL presubs, Viki is making our work impossible. Obviously, the subbers of the presubbed languages have no choice but to quit or become an editor/moderator, which not everyone is willing or able to do. The ones who do stay around as moderator/editor have to do so without the big team they usually had, doing nothing but edit whatever quality of subtitles Viki is throwing at them.
The segmenters cannot do a proper job anymore. A&C has turned into just A. We are not allowed to combine so that we can merely adjust the timing but have to leave all the errors that could have been solved by combining or splitting, just to save those precious OL presubs that don’t do anyone any good.
In reality, we can save OL presubs during combining, but it’s a whole lot of extra work ánd we need to ask permission from the higher-ups for every single show since they simply tell each new CM that combining is prohibited.
I don’t think bowing out now would leave anyone with good memories. Indeed, things will probably not go back to exactly the way it was. But why wouldn’t we at least try to defend our positions? Most of us have invested a lot of time and energy in this site over the years and we don’t want to be simply dismissed for the sake of some unreasonable viewers. They may fill Viki’s wallets; we have always been the ones who made exactly that possible.
That is so far from the truth. There are many times these characters speak in dialect or too fast that you have no freaking clue what they are saying, or the bgm is too loud. Reference subs are exactly what they are… reference. I can get an idea of what is trying to be said and get the point across. There are 2-3 TEs for the Thai language and if you can’t get one, GT is the way to go, for necessity.
Especially in Chinese and Thai, because of the so many dialects and tonal vocabulary. “Xiao” can be written a hundred different ways so the true word is needed.
A simple address to the initial high demand for quick turnaround of translation, was to give the opportunity of being paid to volunteers.
Volunteers who accepted fine. Volunteers who chose not to accept fine.
What we would still have is teams, who understand the demands, from both side of the fence, cooperating with each other to an effective end.
Subsequently, those who joined either side of the fence, would have cooperating guidelines to follow.
I still remember clearly the lovelivel episode. The times I had to listen again and didn’t get quack of that and in the end… it was engrish LoL
One more kdrama coming with english and portuguese presubs @sheli and @vikicommunity didn’t reply yet
I believe the whole Portuguese community feels the same way. 
Many of us know that too, it’s how you said, “Time is money”. But they at least owe us a clear statement about what our future, or if there’ll be a future, will be.
Precisely, I’m trying to defend my community. A community I make part as volunteer for 6 years, turning 7 in November. I spent more time working on projects than watching dramas, lost countless nights contributing even when I was tired and sleepy only for Viki to fill it’s wallets.
I don’t think they will reply to us, so many days have passed and they remain silent.
Even though, I’ve been Segmenting on Viki for a year and half(I think). Once I actually started working on projects I slowly realized the lack of credit Viki gives to Segmenters. I hate doing pre-subs. I just want to make my own segments, edit, and enjoy the show with everyone. I bet the final product would be much better than the segments and dialogue Viki is giving us to FIX!!! I hope Viki corrects this behavior sooner than later!
If they don’t then its crash and burn for them! Lose of wonderful volunteers 
I agree that language communities like yours and the segmenters have been treated very badly lately. Instead of finding good solutions, more and more restrictions are forced on everyone and big communities will disappear at one point if there is no work to do.
Furthermore, it is not like the PT community would not be able to meet the demand of fast translations. Therefore, I do no think it is necessary like that.
Generally, the issue with Viki TEs is that they will not show up to fill empty segments etc. And even if they were supposed to check something further issues might show up and there is no way to verify or discuss any questions. That is why I was sometimes asked to help out a team where a CM did not appoint any TE.
Communities are already disappearing. English TEs, GEs, and subbers are almost completely gone. Only a few are left. So if we do get an empty slated drama, there is nobody left to sub it (except for the “volunteer” Viki staff). Portuguese and the segmenting teams are falling in line on the path of English’s destruction: not enough subbers and segmenters left in the community to fill slots IF an empty-slated drama were to appear.
Again, I re-iterate… Viki is on the path of removing the “volunteer” community tag it’s always had. English community was the first sign, then the segmenters, then Portuguese… Soon Spanish will get hit and maybe even another European language like German or French. It’s a slow downfall in the making.
Why do you think the Viki “staff” ignore us? They know!
They don’t even know any basic matters concerning our work in the first place, as they don’t bother coming to know about it (as we can determine from the FE/CE debate). However, if they want to replace everyone soon there’d no point to bother about events or optimizations, so it is likely that they don’t plan to substitute everyone fast. In the end, languages have different grades of difficulty, too. However, regarding Spanish/French they first added presubs and now continued with Portuguese only. So they took a step back basically. Why’s that? Is it too expensive? Are there not enough people or enough volunteers? Do the results not meet the standards? Are there too few viewers from these respective countries? 
I don’t really agree for segmenters, if there are dramas coming not presubbed, more seggers are around. I saw it many times on the few projects which weren’t coming presubbed this year. Still, indeed for A&C and A&P projects, there’s way less segmenters. Myself, I don’t want to work on adjust only or adjust and past subs projects. I would prefer working on A&C than working on A&P which doesn’t allow segmenters to do their best since some segments will be way too short and we’ll not be allowed to combine them.
For “Life”, for example, there were so many segmenters that we segmented the 16 episodes in less than 48 hours.
There’s a very big amount of segmenters still around but who only accept to work on projects not presubbed. I have a long list of segmenters like that myself on a spreadsheets. Thing is indeed if it keeps going, these segmenters who are still around even if not working on projects, will end up just leaving Viki.
Life was like a gift we where 18 that worked on segments (counted before posting), I remember how happy I was doing what I love doing… If we get a project that is segging from scratch we all know that everyone will apply for it, I don’t mind A&C I remember how happy I was when I started doing it. I know that it’s like many have said… my time as a segger is counted for if I don’t start working on multiple languages and do more A-only then there’s no need for me, it makes me sad as a prefer being a segger more than I like being a Swedish moderator.
I so hope that Viki does something, we really need them to turn things around.
The fact that unsubbed shows have become so rare has also turned them into a battlefield for segmenters. Most of us usually don’t even know about it until the team is “full” and if you’re lucky enough to be in the team, you still have to fight to get your share. For A&C and its hybrids, we get lots of invitations, but unsubbed shows, if they are there at all, are a well-kept secret. It’s a rarity to get invited for them and you can only apply if you know about it in time. This would of course all be different if unsubbed was the norm instead of the exception.
I think by now, we can at least get rid of A-only and A&P. We have ways to preserve the precious OL subs while A&C-ing so there is no use for those other methods that don’t even provide a satisfying result. But that still leaves the segmenters with extra work (and time is oh so precious to Viki…) and the Portuguese subbers with nothing to do.
So… the best Viki could do would be getting rid of all presubs and if that’s too much to ask, at least stick to one language. Unless we want all Portuguese subbers to become segmenters so that we’ll have enough people for all the A&C (E+P)… 
for life i wasn´t even able to semgent a part, because many volunteers took more parts or were there when i slept. so i asked the cs to take me out of the drama after the first 8 episode were done and two more episodes were started. we need more more dramas like that, but we know we won´t get them… sadly…
We are like a problem that they are ignoring so we can just go away.
You say it the best way as always, it’s a bit sad that good things like doing real segments has become something you have to be on your toes if you want a chance to do.
If Viki knew how their “solutions” to instantly uploaded segments and subs…
(1. no A&C, 2. no TE for English, 3. use of machine translation to create English subs, 4. then use of MT to create Portuguese subs from those same English subs)
…severely damage the productivity of this community, I wonder if they would have made the same decisions when they started all this. Or would they have opted for other solutions? And there indeed ARE other solutions out there.
Viki doesn’t want uploaded episodes without subs?
No problem! Make the episodes available to team members only, give a deadline of one week for segmenting, translating to English and then to Portuguese, release the episode subbed, and see the magic happen!