No, they could just have added the “reward” to the existing English-editor role or, if they’d wanted to let OL share in it, too, then to all editors. But anyway, the “exception” would not be for 1-2 languages. All languages need to be edited and that all includes translation edits, no matter how you look upon it.
Obviously.
Hm. I think that all OL editors are translation editors. Don’t they edit the subbers’ translation, just as the English TE edits the Ko-En or C-En translation? Don’t they know well both languages (original language -which now is English - plus their own) just like the English TE knows the original language - Asian language - plus English?
What’s the difference?
I think Viki is a bit confused here and their mentioning cultural notes has just confused volunteers as well.
If you take it further, the GE and the CE also correct the translation: not for meaning (that’s the TE’s job) but for English fluency, grammar, syntax. They are also translation editors in that respect.
We call them TE, GE and CE to distinguish their respective focus, but in the end, they all edit the translated text.
The same could be said about the English TEs.
Exactly.
Or for the CM to get a student who has no experience managing a drama
As for TE for OL, I still think that it is not needed because there is a moderator and an editor to correct any mistakes.
TE is exclusively needed in the English team to make the translation more accurate.
All other languages translate from English to their native language.
I genuinely feel like the TE role for OL languages is the same as the Editor role 
. Wouldn’t it be better if the Editor role was adjusted anyway then? I truly see no point on creating a new role for this. In PT, for example, all the dramas where I’m in charge I usually choose my team to do the everything there: from correcting a word to cutural references beyond what we have here on VIKI. Although I’m totally discouraged being a contributor here with all this change, (that for me doesn’t make any sense) I still do give my all when I can; acting mainly as an Editor.
Anyway, still don’t get it.
I’m completely lost, really 
The whole change just throws up tons of questions because Viki does not really understand how Editors work on Viki. Not to forget, that people like us, the Translation Editors, don’t even care about having “double contributions”. What I want back are the reference subtitles you conveniently removed or that were never provided for languages such as Japanese or Thai. Not to forget that new “weird” way of providing reference subtitles. It might be all right, if you understand the language, but sometimes OL mods and editors have to check those too to grab the correct meaning since words have a couple of meanings in some cases and making a screenshot instead of copying isn’t very… helpful.
In fact, talking to other TEs just revealed that they don’t care either, they just want to do a good job and be in the position to do their best. This has nothing to do with having xx contributions more or not. It’s not like editors are comparable to segmenters that struggled before to get enough subtitles. Furthermore, this will not even result in “appreciation”, but in OL Editors appointing themselves as TEs since they “edit translations” and it’s rather easy for them to get up in the ranking. I already saw this in some of my projects.
Certainly, editing is a lot of work and it does require taking a closer look, just like it does in case of the moderators involved, if they want to do a good job. I do not know how these surveys are evaluated, but it feels like those evaluations don’t result in the best conclusions, but in decisions that cause even more issues on the long run.
Wait, what happened?
I agree with that, but I don’t know, if Viki has control over the transcripts? I’m editing the drama from the 2018 and I can’t copy anything from the transcript
After dramas such as One Room Angel | Watch with English Subtitles & More | Viki they stopped proving Ref subs for Japanese dramas, at least those I know of. If you ask for them you’re told they’re not provided anymore. Thai dramas never even had those. They are only provided for Chinese/Korean nowadays.
Certainly not all of them, but Chinese scripts were provided in a way you could down.load and open them with your Windows Editor. Now I have to make a screenshot and throw them into Google Keep or ChatGPT to get the text to verify things. As an OL Moderator I sometimes have to check the meaning, missing titles etc. since not all of this is covered by the English team if we face reality, especially if there is only a single editor. So it’s not about abuse, but providing the best subtitles.
Hm, did Viki say why they don’t get them nowadays? I guess not?
Yeah, same
They tell you if you ask for them as CM for your own channels. They haven’t made a public announcement, but I’ve received that reply a few times now.
An OL editor does check subtitles just as a TE does. Our subtitlers are not perfect, and wrong translations also exist in our languages. We also add translations notes and do our own researches.
I don’t think it’s fair to ignore a part of the community because of potential abusers.
I have a lot of thoughts on this matter, but I’m finding it hard to articulate them without sounding petty or greedy as a GE/CE who also puts in a lot of time researching but doesn’t feel like I can justifiably call myself a TE. Ultimately, I think it’s unfortunate that an idea that was meant to motivate has had the complete opposite effect, which, to me, suggests it was not a matter that was thoroughly thought out in practice. In truth, as others said, I think part of it comes from a lack of complete understanding of what each contributor actually does (on Viki’s part).
Hi, everyone:) Wow, what a heated discussion, isn’t it? I was wondering whether I should say something or not, but we are all adults, and can have a conversation without being scared that the community will cancel us, right? 
Great! So, for this reason, I would like to share a few thoughts on the topic, just to show the other side perhaps. I am not going to comment on the rewards system itself, I want to make this clear. However, I would like to comment on the Translation Editor role itself and how I see it, or how I think it should be seen, because I think some confusion may come from the definition of this term provided on Viki by Viki which has been used to date (@vikicommunity @brendas maybe you could change this if you are extending this to OLs as well?).
First of all, in the world of translation, the source language is always ANY language that someone translates from. Which means: Korean/Chinese/Thai is the source language for the English translation, and English is the source language for translation into any other language. So, editors who make sure the translation from Korean/Chinese/Thai to English is correct can be considered Translation Editors (as they have been to date; and they are supposed to be fluent in both Korean/Chinese/Thai and English), and editors who make sure the translation from English into OLs is correct can also be considered Translation Editors, simply for a different language pair which is from English into OL. They have not been officially recognized so far, but they have always existed and their role is as important as Korean/Chinese/Thai TEs whom we need SO MUCH.
If we actually need TEs in ALL languages, as all languages are created equal 
why should we have TE role only for Korean/Chinese/That? If we have this role, it should apply to all languages. The fact is that in ALL languages on Viki (including original languages, English as the source language, and even the target languages = all the OLs) we are dealing with people whose language level we cannot verify (not even with the Sample Videos fully, though they do help a bit), so I personally through the years had to correct awkward or simply very bad translations. I was giving a chance to everyone or finishing some abandoned dramas, and correcting the work of some took a whole lot of time, and maybe there are others in OLs who like me have had such experiences. Some contributors’ level of English may be B1/B2 (maybe lower?), and while it’s nice that they want to share their passion for dramas with others and spend their free time here, their level of English is a guarantee of getting some things wrong. The editor has to correct that which makes him/her a TRANSLATION editor… On top of that, some have problems with their native language as mentioned by some previously. That (in my opinion) is translation editing that we do in OLs, at least some of us, I believe. I do, anyway.
Why should we not recognize it as much as it is recognized in original languages? The correct translation from English into OLs is as important as from Korean/Chinese/Thai to English. Now, why does usually one OL editor do different types of edit, and in English Teams we had a separate TE? Probably, because some English Editors (GEs and CEs) don’t know their source languages (which for them is Korean/Chinese/Thai), so there was a need for someone who knows these languages to verify the translation, but they may not be perfectly fluent in English, hence the need for GEs/CEs. Some of them, of course can also act as TEs. Now, in OLs editors ARE fluent in English (their source language) and in their own language, so the same person can correct the translation and do all types of edit. In ideal world, we wouldn’t need all the different types of edit, because the translations would be great from the get-go, and editors would only correct minor things. But Viki is far from ideal due to its business model, and it does not verify skills etc. This is why there are often many corrections needed. Correcting mistranslations from English into OLs is as much translation editing as correcting mistranslation that we have in Korean/Chinese/Thai presubs into English. It’s the same job, so I don’t see why we should not call it what is actually has always been - translation editing. I have always done all types of editing whenever I had the editing role and I think many OL moderators/editors have also done it. Also, I can’t agree that we as OLs don’t do cultural research or use cultural references on our own. Some of us know the original language of the video enough to detect that something is unclear/misleading/ambiguous in the English language or to notice that something is missing from the translation to understand the scene fully and we decide to translate things differently than it was done in English, or sometimes our language simply requires this, and this is also translation editing in OLs.
To give you an example: I have also had a situation when I reached out to a Korean TE to help me clarify something that was not translated in an understandable way in English (in my opinion), it took me time to locate all the places where this phrase was used, write a message to the TE, read the response and edit the translation in the episodes. Subbers didn’t have to spend time to do this extra work, they could simply create more subtitles in the time I was writing an email and the kind TE was reading and responding. Subbers could focus on translating their next parts, and get their contribution points. And thanks to this TE’s help the translation in my language is different from English (the TE was not part of the team, I simply felt comfortable to reach out to her and ask). This was translation editing into my language. I have done it in the past, and I will continue to do it, because I have always been driven by quality. Points don’t change anything in my approach. I also know other good moderators who have done it to make sure the translation into their language is accurate. I couldn’t care less about contribution points, and this is why I am happy to help other moderators or editors who come to me to ask how to translate something when they are stuck, and I sometimes spend quite some time to help them for which I am not awarded any points and nobody even knows about it. I do it because I care, and want to be helpful. I am sure there are others like this.
I feel everyone is focused on those two points, and I’m wondering if we’re not missing something else here. How about we look at it from the perspective of time, and not points? Imagine a subber gets 100 points in an hour (let’s say). Perhaps, an editor who is working for an hour (in ANY language) is able to get only 30 or 50 points. But they also spent an hour… We keep talking about being fair. Is it not fair to reward the same amount of time fairly? This solution is not ideal, and I think no solution is ever going to be ideal on Viki due to how it operates, but how about looking from the perspective of level of effort and time? I don’t know how other editors in other communities work, but I know how I work or those that I would recommend from my community… Whether it’s rewarding just TEs with these 2 points or ALL editors is a different matter, and perhaps this could be reconsidered. But I can’t see why we should claim that there are no translation editors in OLs. There are. There always have been. I don’t know how others work, I don’t judge that, but I do know how I work, and I don’t appreciate others judging that either. I can only talk for myself and my experience, but I spent countless hours editing at times, due to various reasons. Some of you asked who will make sure TEs are qualified… Well, and who makes sure moderators and subbers are always qualified? Well, this is another topic, perhaps, right? Some perhaps are not… This is just how Viki works and this is not going to change, unless they change their business model and we have someone from Viki staff verifying us and our skills. So, this will be the moderator’s responsibility. Will this be abused? Perhaps. Just like right now there may be people who get 1 point that they shouldn’t get for what they do, but they are still added as subbers or moderators or editors. This is our reality on Viki. But there will be those who have always worked the right way, spending much more time than their contributions show, and they will be fairly rewarded now. Just like it was for years with segmenters. I want to believe moderators will know their team, and how they work to reward those who do the real editing work. And if they don’t, well… it happens in other roles as well.
Also, I don’t see a reason for myself to control other contributors to monitor whether they qualify as Translation Editors and whether they have skills to perform this role. It’s the same as with other roles on Viki. I might consider someone not suitable for the role of subber, editor, or moderator, but if I’m not asked about my opinion privately, I keep it to myself. We are all equal as contributors, right? I don’t see myself as above others which would give me the right to patrol what others in my community do. Also, how do I know if they don’t know the original language? How do I know if they don’t have to correct very bad translations? Perhaps they reach out to TEs to correct wrong English subtitles in old dramas where the English team has long finished their work? Viki (the company, not individual employees we have contact with) allows this whole ecosystem to operate the way it does, because they choose to have it this way.
However, it’s a different story whether CEs and GEs should also be rewarded with two points. I was a GE twice with excellent and kind CEs, and a Co-CE once with a native speaker, and it did take me a lot of time as well, and the contributions probably didn’t reflect the time spent So, perhaps all editors should be rewarded with 2 points, not because they are better than subbers, but because it’s a different role that requires a different skillset and the time spent is not reflected in the contributions. However, I can only speak for myself, my roles, and how I work.
So, if I ever decide to add myself as Translation Editor, and anyone has any doubts whether I qualify to do this work and why I have done so, please reach out. I will be happy to provide reasons, to Viki itself as well if needed
And above all, I appreciate all hard-working contributors in all roles here who care about quality and dramas as much as I do 
Big hugs and 1000 points to those who have read it all! 
It was a long, but scrumptious read.
Effort in my book is not enough to grant more perks if it isn’t coupled with proficiency and efficiency.
I may spend a whole afternoon researching on Chinese mythology for a period Chinese drama because I accidentally realised it is the basis for the entire plot, and symbolisms abound. But I spent that afternoon because I was not proficient in the topic and because I was truly interested in it. Was my time well spent? I would say so. Was I efficient? Not at all 
This is why I mentioned time as well. Just as it was disheartening for a segmenter to work for an hour and get two contribution points if they were lucky, it may be disheartening for an editor (even if not many changes are needed) to check consistency, spelling and other things without perhaps getting a single point for it, just making sure they are all correct. Time flies, and there’s nothing reflecting this work. I have always done it, and I will continue to do so, regardless of the points we get. I have no idea how Viki even came up with the idea of asking us if these two points were needed, but they did and this could be one of the reasons for the change. As I said, no solution is ideal, and communities and individuals are all different and work in different ways. I don’t expect everyone or even a majority to agree with the points I made. That’s okay. It’s okay to disagree We all may have different perspectives resulting from the way we work or our experience, and that’s okay. I just wanted to show there may be a different perspective, hoping to simply add to this discussion. That’s all
EDIT: But the above applies to ALL editors, not just TEs…
Here is a(nother) conundrum. Let’s say I am both a subber and a TE on a project.
Will I be getting two points for both subbing and editing someone else’s subs?
After going through all the discussions (here and on the D!scord server) about this situation, here is a resume which I kindly ask others to complete if I missed anything:
THE ORGANIZATION OF THE ROLES
English Team Roles
OL Roles
THE MAIN ASPECTS OF THE CONFUSION
YOUR FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT
You announced the new role and the General and Chief Editors started to complain about not being rewarded the same way since they also have a very important contribution to the channels. That’s absolutely right!
In the middle of the heated discussion, you replied by saying that the new editor role will be used in any language. So this time, the OL also joined the discussion telling you that we never had a TE role for OL and how this can lead to abusive behaviors from some OL contributors or how great is that now we have this role for OL, too.
YOUR SECOND ANNOUNCEMENT (this one)
After postponing the new role, you announced today that the role is up to be used with wording that created a lot of confusion. I checked the new role and it’s already there for any language.
Now about my view as an OL editor on this. So I know what I’m talking about.
ABOUT THE OL AND THE NEED OF THE ”OL TE” ROLE
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE NOW?
You created 2 OL editor roles rewarded differently and without any clarifications on the roles. Now the OL are fighting on why should have a TE role and why not. Personally, I’m for all the possible and impossible editor roles as long they are rewarded with the same amount of points. I don’t support any discrimination/segregation among the editors based on points, especially if it’s about OL since there’s absolutely no validation of the contributors… we still have so many bad subbers around… why force them to become OL TEs? 
Maybe just to butcher more subtitles…
THE SOLUTIONS I CAN THINK OF
jkThanks to all those who discussed about this situation so far!
This is a great question, and I have no clue, to be honest. Maybe Viki could confirm and clarify that? I have always edited my own translations as well, including watching an episode afterward, and I was never rewarded any points for that work and time invested, and I will continue to do it anyway. I know other mods who do the same. I have no idea what this means right now if someone added themselves as a translation editor and they are also a subber on the team/solo subber. Viki would need to clarify, probably. Not to mention the fact that for now, probably anyone who adds themselves as a TE will be seen as abusing the system in the eyes of many, so it’s risky 
Anyway, I will continue to work as I always have. Let’s enjoy being here and appreciate our comments, guys I’m sure it takes so much time (and courage!) for everyone to write them and share their opinion… and NO POINTS FOR THAT!
I agree with most of what you have said, and thank you for your kind words. Like yourself, I don’t care much about contribution points and I am always happy to help out.
With regards to the big question of why only the Korean/Chinese/Thai to English TEs should get the extra point, I assume it’s just a matter of supply and demand. Not all viewers demand Romanian, Dutch or Hungarian, etc. subtitles but most Viki viewers are very vocal about the quality and speed of English subtitles. Also, it is a known fact that the community is facing a severe shortage of Asian language TEs. I don’t necessarily agree with Viki’s decision but I think I can see why such a decision was made.
I’m not really fond on the extension of the TE role to OLs. Leaving aside the 2-points reward system (I’m totally okay with that for English and Portuguese, and I hope GE, CE and CS roles will be introduced as well!), I don’t understand why OLs need a TE role.
I’m not saying OLs do not do translation editing, but that was already being covered by the Editor role. It is not that us OLs do not do translation editing, but that (I think) most of us don’t need an additional role for that.
In our Italian community (and of course I can only speak about what I’ve seen, which does not cover the entire Italian community), many Mods are quite flexible when they assign the Editor role. Not all the Editors work according to a fixed sequence (like TE-GE-CE in English) or fixed workload (very briefly, translation for TE, formatting and English grammar for GE, general overview for CE) - instead, we tend to have a first Editor who takes out most of the mistakes and another (or two others) who makes sure the first didn’t leave anything nasty behind and checks if there is anything amiss. Style and structure are usually in the hands of the Moderator, who is (most of the times but not always) also an editor.
I guess there are those who assign fixed tasks to their Editor (sometimes, when I help new Italian Editors, I tell them, for example, to focus on grammar and typos when they do the first editing and then I take care of the rest, to slowly have them warm up to the Editor role), but I think that is doable without the TE role for OLs.
My point is, what is a TE for OLs?
Someone who takes care of the first layer of editing, like English TE? Should each Mod decide? Is it okay if each community has a different use for this role? What should an OL TE take care of when editing into their language? What is considered “abusive” for their role? I don’t think OLs can use the exact same definition of TE as the English teams, given that we tend to handle our editing teams in a more flexible way - it’s not a matter of better or worse, of course! It’s just different.
Overall, I guess what confuses me is the use this role is supposed to have in OL communities for Viki - and for us - and how it should be defined if it’s here to stay.