Translation Editor Role and Reward Released

Viki Community Corner Contributor Community News
41

Robert, I have always appreciated your work for the community, you do so much, but you know very well that not all contributors know English or their own language fluently. You also mentioned this in the past. The fact is we as OLs also do translation editing whether we call it this way or not. Just as not every subber should be an editor, not every subber should be a TE.

I can only speak for myself. Complaining and stating the reality are two different things. I don’t want to judge what others have said, but I was not complaining. I was simply stating my reality, because many might be afraid to do so. Of course, your reality, and other editors’ reality in their community might be different, as I said. I can only speak for myself.

What’s more, segmenters never complained about not getting their points for A&C, but once the topic was started about it, they all shared how they felt. Was this complaining? Did it mean they didn’t want to do it anymore, or they would stop? I don’t think so, they simply shared their reality. Editors also never complained before because it never came to our mind that there could be an option for a different system. However, once it’s here, some may want to share a different viewpoint. Why is this considered complaining?

Well, every language has a different set of rules, and believe it or not, but there are OL editors who also share general rules with their teams according to the rules that are correct in their language. I have always done it, whenever I worked with a team, and some of these moderators who saw these rules on my teams now use the same rules for their teams :wink: I am sure other mods/editors also share general rules valid for their language. The work of OLs or solo subbers who also do a very good job should not be diminished this way only because a different community works differently. There is no one-size-fits-all here, unfortunately :wink: It is unfair towards OLs who have different resources.

EDIT: However, as I said before, ALL editors probably spend time that is not rewarded. It’s just in OLs it so happens that one editor does all types of editing, so we never call it this way.

Well, whatever the final outcome or decision will be, I hope we will all be able to cooperate with one another in a respectful way.

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42

That doesn’t explain why GEs and CEs are being shunned. Even as a member of an OL community, I could somewhat justify the “reward” being solely reserved for the English editors. OL might do the same amount of work, but English editors are under time pressure (or at least they were before the start of subbing right aftter QC) and exposed to abuse and exploitation so their job is more stressful. But giving this “reward” only to TEs instead of to the entire English team is something that simply can’t be justified. And as such, there is no reason not to give it to OL editors, who by definition are translation editors, too.

By the way, most viewers couldn’t care less about the quality. They want speed.

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43

Since we already have OL TEs on the channels, can anyone tell us if you receive the 2 points only when you edit or even when you subbing? In the latest situation, I find this somehow abusive. Should all the subtitlers be added as OL TEs? Was Viki’s intention to give 2 points to the subtitlers? :thinking:

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44

I was curious so I tested it and it gives you 2 points while subbing as well…
I agree that this is an abusive situation because in the end, the people you wanted to feel appreciated (the TEs), still won’t get much more contributions compared to OL.

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45

I’ll try to be quick, because this thread is already very long… and there’s surely no point in repeating what others said:

  • As an OL editor, I don’t care about the number of points I receive. Just like a TE said above that they don’t care about their own points. We do the job, as for me I barely ever check that number, don’t care.
    What I care about is that when I do a job, I get the same type of recognition than someone else doing a similar job.

  • English version is not The Law. As OL editors, we often have to do some research as a TE does, just with a different target language. Please understand that when you deny that part of our work, it’s actually insulting for all the efforts we give to Viki. And that’s why we get defensive: not about the points, but because you deny the level of work and dedication we put into this. OL edition is not just about spelling, at all, spelling and such is like 10% of the job.

  • Some editors choose to keep it simple and will focus just on the spelling and accuracy with the English version. Great for them, they’re not the majority I worked with, but some do that and that’s awesome. In those cases, the team can have another editor who will focus more on the “in depth” edition, or TE → this position can and does exist in OL.

  • As far as I know, we won’t be able to tell the system “I made this change as a TE / I made this change as a subtitler” (and it would pobably be a hassle if Viki made us mention it). So, if someone is hired as a TE and a subtitler for a certain drama… the system will decide what role has priority, my guess is that Viki will select the higher rank, so TE / 2 points even for subtitles. Still, I’m not sure it’s a good practice to be both TE and subtitler for a same drama, in the same language: would this situation happen often? (I absolutely don’t know how the English team “divides” their work, my apologies for that.)

  • From what I understood from past discussions, the issue actually rose up because there are many pre-subbed dramas in English and Portuguese now, which made a lot of people leave the English and Portuguese teams, as they didn’t see the point in staying. Meaning the remaining volunteers have more work to do, English “final” versions can get delayed while OL needs them to start translating, etc.: it’s important to keep the English team active and strong (and Portuguese because there are many viewers for that language). And, of course, a pre-subbed drama requires edition, we’ve all seen that when working in OL, usually more detailed edition than a drama translated by humans. So, the actual issue for Viki seems to keep people interested in these teams, and maybe get new volunteers: their solution/thinking was that more points could maybe attract people?
    → In my own very personal opinion, this 2 points system should be open and limited to the edition of pre-subbed dramas. The pre-subbed version(s) only, in all pre-subbed versions and only pre-subbed versions (English, Portuguese or any other language). Because editing a pre-subbed drama is a specific job, requires more attention etc.: the different points system can be justified.
    (And, this way, no need to belittle anyone’s work as an editor on “traditional” dramas.)

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46

And now this is another good reason for OL to avoid using this role until new clarifications from Viki. Just my humble opinion.

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47

For smaller languages who work alone, yes.
Speaking as someone who has translated a fair share of dramas by herself and edited her own translations, it happens.

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Idem! Right now I am editor+subber on 6 channels. And from time to time I get 1 channel to work alone on it or together with another friend but I’m still the one to do the editing as well.

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49

I meant “English TE” here, sorry for the confusion.
But yeah, for OL TE in languages with a small community, that system could easily lead to such issues. Maybe it could help convince people speaking those languages to join but…?

Anyway, once again, in my view, this 2 points system should be limited to the pre-subbed dramas in the pre-subbed versions only, this way no risk of such confusion, it’s a specific role, easy to justify and understand, etc.

Edit, forgot: in theory, I’m all in favor of the solution of giving 2 points to OL editors who do TE (most do, a few don’t, it’s up to the moderators to know their teams). What I fear though is claims for abuse: Viki could decide to trust volunteers to appoint their rights fairly and not claim this position when not necessary (ex. if you subtitle and edit and moderate, you already get one point for all segments → why claim the position that would give you two points, if not just “the points”?), but humans being humans we know that a minority will try to abuse the system. And we know there are feuds in several communities, as it always happens in large groups of people after all: people would start grumping that this person abused, and the person’s group would claim that the others abused first, and blah and blah… bad mood everywhere.
So, the 2 points thing for all editors doing TE is surely the fairest solution, for all. Just not sure on the long term consequences, that’s why I favor the “pre-subs only” solution, even if that would mean Viki publicly admitting that they do release AI translations -at first-, sometimes at least… so I’m really not sure they would do that? Ah, sadly life is never perfect…

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50

I see the option though.

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51

They actually hire real people to edit such translations before the show airs.

And where does that leave the GE and CE?

There is still a difference between English and Portuguese: English serves as the language on which most OL teams base their translations, which makes the English team the one that is most of all under pressure. We could argue that Portuguese editors “deserve” extra points now that they don’t have unsubbed shows anymore, but then why wouldn’t the English GE and CE be rewarded in the same way? Some of them are monolingual English speakers so they can not all become TEs. That doesn’t mean, though, that their work is not important or that there is not much for them to do.

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52

From what I understood, and generally speaking, the 2 points system is to reward positions where you do a lot “in the background”: you will correct few segments only, and not many segments in each episode, but most of the time one edited segment actually requires quite some work, not just read - analyze quickly - correct. If someone’s usual work on Viki implies that type of work, I would think that 2 points should be justified?

This being said, as already mentioned, this system with 2 points creates debates because positions that are close feel that their work is not taken in consideration, or not enough: the best would be to keep this system for pre-subbed dramas in the pre-subbed languages, and end of debate.

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And that is your vision of what a CE does?

That still includes GE and CE.

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54

Dear all,

How would it be possible for Viki not to know what are the specific roles of every Editor? That wouldn’t make sense as company, at all. We are their best assets.

Is someone out there coming to Viki as TE just to earn an extra point for every segment they edit? Does someone believe that? Is the prize for such hard work good enough to attract the needed TE’s? I really doubt it.

From what I’ve read I’ve seen some people very excited about the idea of earning an extra point.

Imagine all editors (TE, GE, CE and OL) earn two points by each segment they edit. Now, let’s say an Editor worked on 200 segments, therefore, was rewarded with 400 points.
Wouldn’t that be the same as having an A+ on an exam after cheating half of it?

I dare to state this because many subbers do research and put a lot of effort to create great subtitles. Do these subbers have less value here in this community?

For fairness sake, let’s imagine subbers also gain 2 points per contribution, wouldn’t that be the same at the end? The same we have now?

Be it 1 point or 2, what would be the difference?

Last, but not least:
Rewarding Editors with two points wouldn’t make it even more difficult to break the already visible trend of choosing mostly the same people and, thus, having editors hoarding projects?

Thank you @vikicommunity for thinking about that.

I am very thankful for your true effort, for listening to us, but take things slow and please try not to like everyone/nor anyone in specific. Be fair above all, please. I know you can do it.

You know who I am, I reported myself and my situation to you. Please, contact me if you want/need my opinion.

:heart_hands:

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55

There is some… questionable history. Like Viki asking about Final Editors, who noone has ever seen :laughing:

From my experience being a subber is infinitely easier. I even prefer being a subber.
When you create subtitles, you often get parts like this:
image
You can just speedrun through this and you get contributions for basicly nothing.
Another thing is: the responsibility is not on your shoulders.
If you get a part that contains some words that have to be researched, but were already used in the drama, you can just check the spreadsheet made by the editor. The editor should make sure, that all the important info is in the spreadsheet, that also adds them workload.
If something needs an extensive research, you can just leave to the editor.

As a subber I’m not doing extensive research, I’m not surfing through the transcripts, I’m not checking other sites to be sure about the titles of the characters, I’m not recruiting new subbers, I’m not reading through the sample videos of the people I could recruit, I don’t test subbers, I don’t send feedback to the subbers, I’m not creating a spreadsheet, I’m not writing to the editors to verify the segments I’m not sure of…
When I’m a subber, I’m just chilling XD

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56

And that is your vision of what a CE does?

Normally no, but some do it this way.
Those who do it this way should have no reason to get 2 points, but for those who do more (and that’s the majority), well, why not.

That still includes GE and CE.

Yep. For pre-subbed dramas and in the pre-subbed languages only, but all type of editors for those dramas and languages.

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You know, I’ve seen them and I’ve been one myself. I’m quite the perfectionist, even though, very sadly I can’t be perfect (nobody can, we are all flawed).

Regarding the subs you showed, it happens sometimes, they are not the rule.

Subbers can be more relaxed or work hard while doing their task, according to their own personal standards.

Spreadsheets may have some info but not all.

Did you know that there are so many committed subbers that, after researching, when they can’t find the more accurate expression/word they wanted, they go on and ask for help to their Mods. and or peers?

Aren’t those subbers doing their very best responsibly? Don’t they deserve recognition, too?

What you’ve stated is the role of the Mod.
I know you did it to make sure your chillaxing way of translating was fully understood, but please do not think everyone is as chillaxed as you.

As Mod. I’ve seen the hard effort of my subbers. Also, as subber I’ve seen the effort of my peers, too. That’s why I spoke out for them, for the hard working ones - myself included.

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Do we really need a TE for OL? I don’t think so. The OL editors already do that kind of work. I can see the utility to the source (from original language to English), but I don’t understand why we should have a TE in the OL. As well, I don’t understand why they should be awarded 2 points. At this stage, any moderator (also the ones who know to be bad editors) will not look for an editor any more, compromising the quality of the drama.

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59

No, you have not, because there is no such role on Viki. And particularly because you contributed with only Portuguese and Spanish subs. You are still quite inexperienced.

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60

An OL Moderator should be so well versed in both English and their target language, that they can easily take over the role of the Editor. And I would argue they SHOULD edit their own projects, because as a CM, I hold the Mods accountable for both the completion and quality of the translation.

Moderation should not go into the hands of people who are lousy editors in the first place.

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