Because the new role is specifically being created for earning double points, which all of our current roles don’t have.
That is indeed likely to happen… 
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This seems so weird to me, but I guess we will see tomorrow. And yes, the best thing to do would be to treat all the editors the same (OL, CE, GE, TE), as it is now. (just my opinion 
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I’m with you on this one. Being the most active RO contributor and probably also the most active RO editor I should also be afraid of people thinking differently about me if starting tomorrow I will switch to the new RO TE role. Especially if I think about those RO contributors waiting for any bit of anything to badmouth me around omitting that I only continue to do what I was already doing for more than 4 years.
But here is Viki’s fault for not explaining the entire thing. If tomorrow we are going to have the Language Editor role replaced with this new role, then very good. Everyone is safe and we can continue waiting for them to bring ASAP the same rewards system for all the editors (GE, CE). But this is not what I get from their announcement.
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@vikicommunity Correct me if I’m wrong, I am late to the party here. So, the TE gets 2 points because they do more work? What nonsense is this? I feel you are negating the roles of the GE and CE.
The GE just doesn’t correct grammar and spelling, and the CE doesn’t just run through the segments and announce “You pass” and release episodes. It’s not that simple and I feel that you giving TEs a higher reward, shows how much you value the other editing roles.
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Segmenters not only get credit for A&C, but they get points for English and the other pre-subbed languages when combining… so…
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I want to add what Connie said… this “new reward” will also lead to nefarious ways of cheating the system to get that double reward.
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I think OL should be concerned by this change because an OL editor is a TE editor.
But I agree with you that they should reward the existing role rather than create a new one.
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This whole issue with TE being also OL editors is… uh… well… interesting…
I’m wondering what happens in the case of a moderator+editor+subber combo. If I add myself as all those roles (in case I’m doing all of that), would I get double contributions from the editor role or single contributions from the subber role?
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If you include the new TE role, then you get double points.
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I may be totally wrong, but it seems that one of the reasons for giving “extra reward” to TEs is due to the lack of active TEs, a simple matter of supply and demand.
I realize that there are some who would strongly disagree with me but I believe the paid subbers are doing a decent job, at least where K-dramas are concerned. Occasionally, there are missing signs and lyrics and a few incorrect translations but not enough to require a TE’s constant presence in the team.
If I may suggest, instead of offering extra reward to attract more TEs, how about creation of a new role of Language Consultant/Advisor, who can be asked to fill in the missing information or correct a questionable subtitle? For example, I’ve helped a CE translate a particularly difficult Joseon era poem and helped another CE with incorrect use of homonyms. I’ve also explained the confusing term “Jindo One” to an OL Moderator. I did all this privately, without getting any contribution point. Personally, I couldn’t care less about contribution points, but it would be a nice gesture for the Subtitle Team to recognize such contribution if offered by other TEs.
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I don’t think that awarding double points to some was the volunteer community’s idea. We said that there is a shortage of English translation editors, and someone at Viki thought that more points would retain them or lure them back (whether this will work is doubtful). And when someone rightly said “oh, but what about OL editors? We basically do the same job!”, they tried to save the gaffe and said “oh but of course, that’s what we meant all along”. But then the other English editors said “but what about us, why are we left out? We are just as important”. And then of course OL subbers will say “So if you give to everyone else, what are we?”
Next could be the moderators and CMs: they don’t get ANY points for their work, unless they also have another role.
What a mess! I suggest we backtrack a bit and think again.
Viki, please make a poll and see whether your idea of double points for some is really endorsed by the majority.
The questions:
*A) Do you want every volunteer to have only 1 point per contribution (including segmenters: only 1 point per segment for any kind of intervention)?
*B) Do you want some categories of volunteers to have 2 points per contribution?
If yes, who?
My personal opinion:
We are all like links of a chain. Everyone’s needed, none is more “meritorious”. Solo subbers-editors can never be as quick.
There are people who have more impact or responsibility, but in exchange, they get less points. The point system works in such a way that the bigger the responsibility (the “power”, if you will) the less the contribution count.
Depending on how good are the people who came before, the next person will have less and less contributions. If the subbers are very good, the TE will have few changes, and if al of those are good, the GE will have less etc. Ending with the CM, who is the top deciding person, having no contribution points at all.
And it’s okay for me. It’s balanced.
But even those people who are coordinators responsible for the whole team or for the whole project, they depend on the others to provide a timely job. We’ve all seen that solo subbers/editors/moderators from small languages may deliver an excellent job but they can hardly keep up with the schedule needed by Viki. Therefore, each and every role is equally deserving of respect. And trying to push more rewards for some is disrespecting the hard work of everyone else.
Again, this is just my two cents. You’re free to disagree.
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Yes, the paid subber translations generally make sense, but they often leave out cultural stuff.
And even if they didn’t do that, even if it were just “a few incorrect translations”… Those occasional incorrect translations you mention, who is going to catch them if there isn’t some native speaker who goes through all episodes, but only an external consultant whom the GE and CE ask for advice when they see a problem?
An incorrect translation or a missing part is not something that the GE and CE will notice, if they don’t know the language - and most of us don’t.
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Segmenters do get 1 point per segment, but that doesn’t mean that they should be robbed of the subtitles that they also do. And they had to wait years for justice. Leave them out of this. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the current issue.
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Surprisingly, there are many in this community who are students of Korean language and are able to at least detect questionable subtitles. Also, Timed Comments and direct messages from avid drama lovers can sometimes be helpful.
Of course, it would be optimal to have a TE for each project who can review each subtitle of each episode. However, we are facing a serious shortage of TEs. Then, wouldn’t some help from intermittent need-based Language Consultant/Advisor be better than no TE at all? For quality control, I suggest CEs and CMs share a short list of potential Language Consultants/Advisors who are either EEA senseis or TEs of similar caliber.
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You said before that they aren’t really needed, and that’s what I was replying to.
(The shortage is a reality, and that’s why training more TEs from the existing subbers is a good idea.)
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Not requiring a constant presence in case of extreme shortage of TEs does not mean that the TEs are needless.
I doubt any amount of discussion on whether the TEs deserve 2, 1, or 0 contribution point will entice any volunteer to become a TE. In fact, the current direction of discussion is becoming rather contentious and seems to be veering off from the main topic. Isn’t it about time we try to come up with some workable solution? Like I said before, I couldn’t care less about the contribution points and I can easily renew my Viki pass by doing Korean captions, but I still care about this community and want to help find a solution to this sticky problem.
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Maybe you should A&C E&P a few shows before making those decisions for others. Segmenters are finally getting what they rightfully deserve. If we adjust both the start and the end of a segment, we still get only 1 segment point.That we also get subtitle points is because we do those on top of that. It’s a whole lot of work to do everything we need to do. That is totally different from giving TEs 2 points for doing things for which others only get 1 point.
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Editors, even if they adjust both formatting and meaning, only get one point.
FYI: I have done A LOT of segment correction, during my time on Viki. A lot. Of course it doesn’t show anywhere, as we all know, so it’s a bit hard to prove.
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@tourmaline – When we segment a raw video, the segmenter always receives just one contribution point for creating a segment which entails both the beginning and the ending. If the original segmenter moves the beginning or the end, no additional contribution points are earned. The problem with A & C work previously was that the system only rewarded creation, so A & C work was truly thankless.
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I am aware of that. Being both a segmenter and an English editor, I know the difference between the two situations. And by the way, checking the meaning of English subtitles is done by the TEs while formatting is the task of the GE and CE. If we give editors an extra point, we should do so for ALL editors cause any editor might correct more than 1 thing in 1 subtitle. However, this new debate doesn’t give you the right to try to undo what segmenters have been waiting for for years.
I know that you were a segmenter somewhere in the past. Shows with multiple presubs (2-4 languages) only first aired on Viki in 2023, though. Have you been a segmenter since then? I recommend you to try it before you judge.
Exactly. So it’s only fair that that is different now. And most of the people who now get those points were also there when it was still a thankless job.
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