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#123

That’s why I posted it here :slight_smile:

I never heard that term in German. I probably also wouldn’t know the meaning when I only see the English term… in a show you might see the visuals but if it’s text only…?


#124

No, just few words that are similar to other languages I know. What I meant was that with these European languages that got either German subs or German voice over, the German was always natural so I think they didn’t translate it from English to German (as you mentioned it with Asian language to Dutch; I think Japanese is also directly translated to German and many Korean shows have German voice over too; the Chinese shows only have subs and some older shows have subs that look weird but as someone mentioned here last year this page used to buy fanmade subs so if that’s true it would explain the change in the sub’s style).

It’s interesting that the Nordic languages are like that too in this aspect :slight_smile:


#125

Well there you go, I have never come across the term “butterfly kiss” ever so have just learnt something new!
I was trying to, and I know very badly (I was going to put a disclaimer in the post :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:) illustrate word order but I don’t speak Korean or Japanese so probably made a complete hash of things in trying to reverse Subject Verb Object / Subject Object Verb.
An original language viewer of Japanese or Korean drama would think in that way naturally, an English viewer (me!) doesn’t so the translator in knowing the target English has naturalised it in the form I would think in everyday and not get English in Yoda speak.
I do admire the skills of the volunteers in that respect when I can read the subtitles and get fully immersed in the drama without noticing anything seemingly out of place. (a very big thank you)
That full immersion would be lost if auto translate were to repeatedly snap the impatient viewers out of with poor translations and human nature being what it is, no amount of ‘we give you auto translate with the understanding that it’s not that good so make concessions for it’ is going to stop subconscious bias from accumulating. A very bad idea if it actually has a tangible influence on the impatient viewers (whether they are aware of it or not.)


#126

The term “Schmetterlingskuss” for “butterfly kiss” does exist and it’s used for a very tender, but also very seductive brushing with you eyelashes. Often on the face, but not only… cough… :blush:


#127

Maybe that’s only working with long artificial eyelashes :rofl:

In some stories (books, not TV shows) they wrote something like ‘kiss/es like a butterfly’ but it wasn’t about eyelashes but maybe it’s only used in specific genres.

Could you give an example for a story that uses this term in the eyelash way?


#128

We had a lengthy conversation about Korean word order here.
The whole discussion is very interesting, with various people defending literal translations not only of Korean word order but also expressions which are completely meaningless in English, such as “I will leave first”, “Where are you sick?”, “I will use it well” etc.
To which I recently added some new examples of Korean word order.. I preferred to add them there, where they belong, so that I don’t clutter this discussion and veer it off-topic.

I’ve got a whole file with examples of Korean word order literally translated into English, I use it in my Italian Subber Training Course, and after one hour of trying, most of them become proficient in turning those sentences into normal Italian. I then present a test, but not everybody is able to solve all of the presented examples in a satisfactory way, so we have to do more practice.

The relevance of this is that, if human subbers who don’t know the source language (Korean, in this case) have to be especially and painstakingly trained to recognize these literal translations and to apply certain techniques for translating them into their language, how on earth would AI be able to do it? The answer is that it simply won’t do anything, it will translate normally these nonsense sentences into Spanish or whatever.

If you want to delve more into editing and good translation generally, there’s more
here and here.
And of course, another very interesting conversation on quality over quantity here.


#129

I’m sorry, but I don’t have a specific story as an example, I don’t remember the titles. But when you use google, you can find several articles about the butterfly kiss. Some are rated 18+ :sweat_smile:

https://www.nice-magazin.de/der-schmetterlingskuss-die-zarteste-verfuehrung-seit-es-kuesse-gibt/

:kissing_heart:


#130

Danke :grin:


#131

Auto-subs to satisfy whiners is like making someone release a movie without even editing it, just because the viewers are too impatient. Just tack on all the scenes together and hurry and release it, otherwise people will whine too much. Dumb. Move.


#132

I can only respond to this from the perspective as a viewer,

I think autogenerated subtitles aren’t a good solution, it may stall the impatient people but I doubt they would be satisfied by autogenerated subtitles.

Although out of my very own curiosity and amusement id try that feature just to have fun with the randomness.

I never had any issues with my patience to wait for subtitles, I think the subtitling teams having already enough pressure as it is. I suggest to review that idea and maybe come up with a better or more satisfying solution ala “lets meet somehow halfway”.

EDIT ADD:

I have an idea or a possible solution that could work for the better:

If this doesn’t already exist:

→give early access to Chanel managers and subtitling teams
•As example: 3 days ahead of the new episodes.
This could relief some pressure on the voluntary teams also stall the impatience.

→If early access isn’t possible then delayed release of 3 days.

I mean seriously people cant you wait 3 days for teams do the work, they already spend their free times on this and do it for free because they love and enjoy this.


#133

The subtitling tools are here on the website, so episode has to be uploaded on Viki for us to be able to work on it. We work on it on “real time”, that is, every new sub that is made is immediately visible. We don’t have any special other place to go and work on it before it’s uploaded.


#134

there is no way they could lock the content and make it only accessible like for the English translator team in order they could release those new episodes guaranted into English?


#135

I guess Viki could temporarily turn it into afbeelding for everyone who’s not a volunteer … :thinking:


#136

exactly or give the voluntary people an own surface, thats not being able to access without any viki voluntary approval in oder to prevent grieving as example I got in mind, that people would abuse AI translations to fill into subtitling to gain merits.


#137

I’m not sure if that would be technically possible (anytime soon), but it would be a great idea.


#138

well I crafted a poll but probably its being useless

https://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5f371a55e4b048bb32742f9e


#139

No it isn’t a good idea in my opinion. Viki is a truly international platform, and among its viewers there are many, many Asian people. They may be Asians who live in other countries so they don’t have access to TV, or they missed their episodes on TV because they clash with their other schedules or whatever. There are also many enthusiastic Korean/Chinese learners). All these people know the language and don’t need subtitles.
Why should they be “punished” and have to wait for the rest of us until the subtitles are ready?


#140

That brings us back to the fact that all this will only be done for the so-called “whiners”. Can’t we just find a way to shut them up? Like having someone approve comments before they are published on the channel pages? Or getting rid of the comment section altogether?
Or making commenting only possible after the whole show is released?


#141

So, Ich wollte übersetzt haben:
‘Ich weiß, der Vergleich hinkt etwas’ … :grinning:
Die Übersetzung, der Maschine… :grin:

I know the comparison is a bit slow… :flushed:

Aber das ist doch nicht richtig, bzw. anders übersetzt? Oder gibt es in der englischen Sprache gar keinen ‘hinkenden Vergleich’?

Worauf ich eigentlich hinaus will… Wegen so einem Cram, und wenig Text, dauert es bei mir meist ne Stunde bis Eineinhalb Stunden… Oder ich lösche alles wieder und schreibe gar nichts :unamused: wegen Frustration :grin:

Eine Maschine ist und bleibt oberflächlich, sie kann nicht zwischen Sinn und Unsinn unterscheiden, selbst wenn mister/in Perfect, sie bedienen würde, wissen wir alle, perfect gibt es nunmal nicht…
Ich vertraue hier bei Viki darauf, daß alles was ich in den Dramen sehe von euch freiwilligen und ihr macht es einfach klasse
auch übersetzt wird, wann auch immer, denn das ist Echt… :heart:

Eigentlich wollte ich etwas ganz anderes schreiben, aber weil mich das so gefrustet hat :persevere:
Ist das bei rumgekommen, und dann auch noch in deutsch, weil die Übersetzung, bei so viel :woman_facepalming: mich über 2 Stunden gekostet hätte… :grin: Aber ich muß noch zu meinem Pferdchen :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

LG :hugs:


#142

I don’t think you can say "The comparison is limping a little " in English. You can say, just like in German “comparing apples to oranges” (in Dutch it would be “apples to pears”).

Exactly. After all, the machine doesn’t have a conscience. It learns what it’s fed and even that it doesn’t understand on a true level.

I’m glad to see you have faith in the volunteers and patience to wait for whenever they’re ready. After all it’s people like you we’re doing this for. People who enjoy a nice drama, yet understand that we can’t do the impossible. People who prefer the subtitles to be REAL, rather than quick.

That’s just another example of how frustrating artificial translation is.

Give her a hug from me. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: