Viki

[Viki Community] We Want Your Feedback


#119

Isn’t a “butterfly kiss” when one person brushes the face of the other with her/his eyelashes? So saying “Your kisses are like butterflies” might have been a mis-translation which would lead both an AI bot or human language subber down the wrong road?


#120

Now that you mention it, yes! At least in English it is. I’m not so sure if any Asians would use it in that sense.
It was also a movie I only vaguely remember … :thinking:


#121

The Korean dictionary defines the English term “butterfly kiss” in Korean as pretty much what I gave as the English definition. As I edit, sometimes I do wonder whether an English term like “butterfly kiss” as counterparts in the many other languages available at viki. And that’s an issue in bot translation like “honey” and “cheese”!


#122

The litteral Dutch translation, vlinderkus, is not a common word here, so I looked it up and it turns out to be a kind of foot massage for babies:


#123

That’s why I posted it here :slight_smile:

I never heard that term in German. I probably also wouldn’t know the meaning when I only see the English term… in a show you might see the visuals but if it’s text only…?


#124

No, just few words that are similar to other languages I know. What I meant was that with these European languages that got either German subs or German voice over, the German was always natural so I think they didn’t translate it from English to German (as you mentioned it with Asian language to Dutch; I think Japanese is also directly translated to German and many Korean shows have German voice over too; the Chinese shows only have subs and some older shows have subs that look weird but as someone mentioned here last year this page used to buy fanmade subs so if that’s true it would explain the change in the sub’s style).

It’s interesting that the Nordic languages are like that too in this aspect :slight_smile:


#125

Well there you go, I have never come across the term “butterfly kiss” ever so have just learnt something new!
I was trying to, and I know very badly (I was going to put a disclaimer in the post :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:) illustrate word order but I don’t speak Korean or Japanese so probably made a complete hash of things in trying to reverse Subject Verb Object / Subject Object Verb.
An original language viewer of Japanese or Korean drama would think in that way naturally, an English viewer (me!) doesn’t so the translator in knowing the target English has naturalised it in the form I would think in everyday and not get English in Yoda speak.
I do admire the skills of the volunteers in that respect when I can read the subtitles and get fully immersed in the drama without noticing anything seemingly out of place. (a very big thank you)
That full immersion would be lost if auto translate were to repeatedly snap the impatient viewers out of with poor translations and human nature being what it is, no amount of ‘we give you auto translate with the understanding that it’s not that good so make concessions for it’ is going to stop subconscious bias from accumulating. A very bad idea if it actually has a tangible influence on the impatient viewers (whether they are aware of it or not.)


#126

The term “Schmetterlingskuss” for “butterfly kiss” does exist and it’s used for a very tender, but also very seductive brushing with you eyelashes. Often on the face, but not only… cough… :blush:


#127

Maybe that’s only working with long artificial eyelashes :rofl:

In some stories (books, not TV shows) they wrote something like ‘kiss/es like a butterfly’ but it wasn’t about eyelashes but maybe it’s only used in specific genres.

Could you give an example for a story that uses this term in the eyelash way?


#128

We had a lengthy conversation about Korean word order here.
The whole discussion is very interesting, with various people defending literal translations not only of Korean word order but also expressions which are completely meaningless in English, such as “I will leave first”, “Where are you sick?”, “I will use it well” etc.
To which I recently added some new examples of Korean word order.. I preferred to add them there, where they belong, so that I don’t clutter this discussion and veer it off-topic.

I’ve got a whole file with examples of Korean word order literally translated into English, I use it in my Italian Subber Training Course, and after one hour of trying, most of them become proficient in turning those sentences into normal Italian. I then present a test, but not everybody is able to solve all of the presented examples in a satisfactory way, so we have to do more practice.

The relevance of this is that, if human subbers who don’t know the source language (Korean, in this case) have to be especially and painstakingly trained to recognize these literal translations and to apply certain techniques for translating them into their language, how on earth would AI be able to do it? The answer is that it simply won’t do anything, it will translate normally these nonsense sentences into Spanish or whatever.

If you want to delve more into editing and good translation generally, there’s more
here and here.
And of course, another very interesting conversation on quality over quantity here.


#129

I’m sorry, but I don’t have a specific story as an example, I don’t remember the titles. But when you use google, you can find several articles about the butterfly kiss. Some are rated 18+ :sweat_smile:

https://www.nice-magazin.de/der-schmetterlingskuss-die-zarteste-verfuehrung-seit-es-kuesse-gibt/

:kissing_heart:


#130

Danke :grin:


#131

Auto-subs to satisfy whiners is like making someone release a movie without even editing it, just because the viewers are too impatient. Just tack on all the scenes together and hurry and release it, otherwise people will whine too much. Dumb. Move.


#132

I can only respond to this from the perspective as a viewer,

I think autogenerated subtitles aren’t a good solution, it may stall the impatient people but I doubt they would be satisfied by autogenerated subtitles.

Although out of my very own curiosity and amusement id try that feature just to have fun with the randomness.

I never had any issues with my patience to wait for subtitles, I think the subtitling teams having already enough pressure as it is. I suggest to review that idea and maybe come up with a better or more satisfying solution ala “lets meet somehow halfway”.

EDIT ADD:

I have an idea or a possible solution that could work for the better:

If this doesn’t already exist:

→give early access to Chanel managers and subtitling teams
•As example: 3 days ahead of the new episodes.
This could relief some pressure on the voluntary teams also stall the impatience.

→If early access isn’t possible then delayed release of 3 days.

I mean seriously people cant you wait 3 days for teams do the work, they already spend their free times on this and do it for free because they love and enjoy this.


#133

The subtitling tools are here on the website, so episode has to be uploaded on Viki for us to be able to work on it. We work on it on “real time”, that is, every new sub that is made is immediately visible. We don’t have any special other place to go and work on it before it’s uploaded.


#134

there is no way they could lock the content and make it only accessible like for the English translator team in order they could release those new episodes guaranted into English?


#135

I guess Viki could temporarily turn it into afbeelding for everyone who’s not a volunteer … :thinking:


#136

exactly or give the voluntary people an own surface, thats not being able to access without any viki voluntary approval in oder to prevent grieving as example I got in mind, that people would abuse AI translations to fill into subtitling to gain merits.


#137

I’m not sure if that would be technically possible (anytime soon), but it would be a great idea.


#138

well I crafted a poll but probably its being useless

https://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5f371a55e4b048bb32742f9e