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#240

I think the more you stayed for a long time, the more you have seen it all, bad or good changes and see people, volunteers and staff come and go… Don’t you feel sometimes tired when there’s a lack of stability?

Is there a less homey feeling here?

I also have this general feeling in life like I would always think that tomorrow would be better than today, but in the end, I always think before was better than now (is it like what you’re feeling?). So I’m always unsatisfied with this mindset LOL Once something is done or we’re enough satisfied with, then there’s another thing or the next aspiration, it never ends, could be in life or on Viki or on Sims.

I think remaining optimist is a great quality on Viki that is difficult to keep over the years, so I understand you clearly on that, even though I have less years in my pocket on Viki than some others. (It must be worst for them?) Or I have less patience than them or you or like Irmar, this is the vibes you guys inspire me LOL Hopefully, we meet all kind of people not like us XD Mirjam is also great at being patient.


#241

I have lost my patience and much of my hopes that anything of importance will change here, or that our reasonable requests - for the improvement of the website, the users’ enjoyment and the volunteers’ work - will ever be granted.
So if I fight less, it’s not because I’m patient but because I’m disillusioned.


#242

Poor Irmar… Still, Greek, English and Italian are not affected, so it’s still good news… Let’s wait for the test, next plan they have…

Still, you still provide suggestions and advice despite this mindset, so you’re a tough one lol


#243

If it really was that then I feel deceived. :pensive:

I’ve no idea, they only asked about the accuracy and when it was not correct we should correct it and if we wanted, explain why it was wrong.


#244

I am not sure it is this survey (I didn’t participate), reading the answer of Mariliam:

  • It says “viewers” (100% viewers?)
  • we don’t have 3,500 volunteers in Spanish and Portuguese so there are viewers who don’t understand English inside => that’s why I think it’s another survey, because they can’t correct what is wrong without having the English subs.
  • we normally need the original language and the targeted language to be able to make a judgement on the quality, especially for medical and historical that have technical terms.
    Or else, what do you judge with this survey?

"User acceptance towards the quality of Auto-generated subtitles"

That’s why the word “quality” bothers me here, it can’t be evaluated that way if the research subjects were not able to determine the quality. Is it the perception of the subject on that matter (subjectivity/feelings) or the reality (truth/the objective truth)?
The title of this survey or this paragraph is confusing. It made us think people can guarantee/assess the quality of the AI.

In that case, can we ask a child when he is not able to think by himself yet to have a judgement on certain questions? Can this judgement be taken into account?
That’s why in court, some people need tutors, parents or ask specialists opinions on the matter, because we can’t emit a judgement that is objective or ppl need a specialist to explain them before they emit an informed judgement.

Also, I think it is important when conducting a survey to tell the research subjects what the survey’s goal is, that is to say to maybe implement this AI on Viki and that their answer will determine whether this or that.

That’d be helpful to have Viki’s official answer on this survey, what was it, can we take a look, who has been asked, what the dramas were, their ability to understand both languages, the conditions of this survey.


#245

@worthyromance

Thank you for sharing this with us. The unedited version in your examples are really bad (as an auto-generated sub that is),it’s almost like a guessing game. Although I did experienced something like that while working on a Chinese drama a long while back, but thankfully this wonderful girl (translator/editor) fixed all that mess for me, but of course she knew Chinese and English to perfection.

I know if this happened in my native language (Spanish) I would be able to fix the sentence too. Like I mentioned before, that’s how bad the google subs were for a drama I was watching. Oddly enough, I was able to understand enough subs in the drama to continue watching it with those bad subs (all 16 episodes).

But I know they Can’t be that bad bc Google translators has improved so much now, and AI is a very advanced language system, so I know the only dramas that might be very difficult to understand with AGS will be those for traditional era dramas/movies. Thankfully, I rarely watch those traditional types dramas/movies whether they are Korean, Chinese, Japanese etc…


#246

I also believe that google translate has improved. My hubby who translates Czech says it’s good for giving keywords, and good for a simple sentence but it wouldn’t be sufficient for subs. I use it to answer questions on my fan collection: https://www.viki.com/collections/2696158l-skinship because that’s the best I can do.

I thought that pre-subs were written by humans paid by the production company. On the latest pre-subbed show, when I compare it with subs by origin translators on the other show I’m editing, I started to think that pre-subs are auto-generated! Otherwise, how can the segmenting be so off many times??? It’s not possible for human ears and hands to be that off! I don’t care what the production company claims. I go by what I see and know. Whole sentences of dialogue are missing on pre-subs! Weird symbols show up on pre-subs that any human would delete. So I don’t anticipate any better for other language OL auto-subs.

I tried watching auto-generated subs on YT shows and I gave up because they don’t make sense!. I’m like @irmar in that I think humans bring the subtlety, wisdom, skill, common sense and finesse required in subs which a computer can never do. We work hard to convey proper meanings and correct English. When I watch a drama, the dialogue matters to me. I think we owe Viki viewers decent dialogue in any language! My friend who is a Greek translator makes the effort so that Greek subs have all the beauty and understanding of that language.

Viki is available in these languages: * English

  • Deutsch
  • Español
  • Français
  • Italiano
  • Português
  • 日本語
  • 简体中文
  • 繁體中文
  • 한국어
    when people choose their language for Viki. I would think that means Viki has staff who speak these languages. Can those humans help in these languages when our translators get stumped on a difficult segment? The reason an episode gets stuck on 95% is because of really tricky segments for translators.

I currently work on two dramas which aren’t popular. Yes, it’s hard to get people on less popular shows while popular ones have up to twenty people competing to be moderators! While trying to train a new English editor, I offered on two older shows with poor English editing, but I didn’t get any replies from anyone on those teams! My CM friend told me that if I didn’t hear from those teams after 30 days that I could get Viki to add me. I sincerely believe the reason older or less popular shows don’t get help is because of this very reason! The CM, CE, and whoever has authority for those shows no longer care about managing that show. When people offer, they won’t even add them. Viki needs to hire someone who just takes care of such shows. I doubt the efficacy of using a computer to take care of such dramas. The person can make lists of shows which need such help and oversee adding volunteers. I’m willing to help in the English editing for such unpopular shows. I noticed there are many gems of older shows which lay forgotten by the wayside! Some people on my collections didn’t hear about Before We Get Married and Fox’s Summer, which I think is a real shame when I know there are much older ones than that! There are many oldies but goodies.


#247

@worthyromance

I hear you. Google translate has improved but not enough for ppl to rely on it to make full sentences/subtitles like some volunteers continue to do in here. I always argue and question the things going on here that makes no sense at all (it’s mainly about quality in my native language: Spanish). I myself when I was in better health applied to be CM/Moderator of dramas and it was always was a: NO. Yes,as a puerto rican woman raised in a tough Island I can be too rough for some ppl. bc I tell them the things ‘‘straight in the face.’’ I don’t curse or call ppl names like I was accused here of doing, I very thoroughly explain every mess they made in the drama and try to help them out by providing links to help them. I worked extra bc I cared for quality in the spanish subtitles, and now I’m accused of being rude and a person hard to work with. They flagged and delete the things I post here before, but a person that I proved writes all her subtitles, conversations with google translate, and makes no sense most of the times when she writes in English is now working on not ONE, but 2 on air dramas. I guess they will edit the mess she’s doing with the subtitles but does that make sense at all? so much editing when others that are more capable can be doing that work? No less on a on air drama. Something is not right here.

Look how much effort and work you’re willing to do here but it goes into deaf ears, and you get no replies from those teams when you reach out to them. Just recently I saw many messages of frustrated ppl wanting to volunteer, contacting many moderators, and no one is responding to them but they keep this person that will give them so much extra work in editing, and I know bc I went through that with her. Some ppl are incapable of learning a language bc they have a mental block and I believe she’s one of them. Tell me, why she’s working on 2 on air dramas that requires a high level of knowledge in the English language? Why? I know why, but I’ll keep it to myself bc ‘‘I washed my hands’’ with this issue a long time ago. It’s not worth my time or energy.

PS> In regards to the segments I have been complaining about that too but like always, it goes in to deaf ears. Most segments in some dramas are empty but they add something; a dot maybe? and you see the actor saying something but the subtitles is not there and that is why it says 93% subbed when in reality is not. When I add it in the comment that segments are empty w/o subtitles in them, my comment always get ‘‘removed’’ Never fails. I gave up a long time ago.


#248

If there’s really an issue with the subtitles, I think you’d better report it to the GE or CM of the particular show.


#249

The way I see it NO ONE cares enough bc if they did, they would have more respect for the latinos/Hispanics, and would stop using as a subber a person that makes no sense when she writes/does subs bc all her sentence is a work of [Google translate]. I proved it before they deleted all my posting here bc supposedly: ‘I broke guidelines’ yeah right. Control, control… she doesn’t break any rules and gets rewarded by working on air dramas and ppl with skills in the Eng/Span language are told the ‘‘team is full.’’

I can’t defend my native language bc they ‘‘shut me off’’ criticize me, say lies about me and the icing in the cake, they have her now working in a ‘‘on air drama’’ like to mock me bc if that’s not the reason tell me, why this person is doing subtitles in a on air drama no less?

Segments here have always had issues this is nothing new, and lately it’s just getting worst. But my opinion is that those might be auto-generated segments like @worthyromance stated. Why should it surprise us? Anything can happen here and be allowed to continue to happen. I believe now they are so afraid and want to prove they are working fast and have reached a 80 to 90% work in the dramas, so they add a dot here and there, and the seg is done. I should know bc I saw this happening a lot in the past in many dramas. It was bc I was always complaining about those things that happened here that I gained so many enemies. Do I wonder why? That’s a laugh. Watch them delete this too although they know I speak the truth. RESPECT my native Spanish language, and stop using ppl that are treating it like trash. I see all OL been treated in a respectful manner, and they have quality teams, and I want the same respect for my lengua latina, herencia de nuestros ancestros que a través de los siglos lloran ante esto que acontece aquí injustamente.


#250

I think that’s even the case now, when a OL editor looks at subs that are created after the English edit was done, e.g. I often see 3 different types of written German:

  1. German subs that follow old grammar/spelling rules
  2. German that is written in the actual form
  3. German that is written in some special spellings of Switzerland

It’s not changing the meaning of a sentence, it’s usually just a different letter like ss/ß or ä/ai and such things. Same goes for commas that some subbers never add at all…

Next thing is the writing style of Chinese names because in this regard I also often see 2-3 different types of spelling although we have a doc that shows the style for all characters.

Most severe aspect is:

  1. Syntax
  2. Wrong translation/meaning

1 is more annoying for reading and watching at once while 2. is most important (but sometimes relies also on wrong English translations not only because of translating the English subs wrong into German).

So if I could request a tool for editors I’d like to have a software that is able to:

  • Exchange given words like writing all character names in the same way (= in the way the editor enters it in the field how it should be written)

  • Highlight all segments when the English and German subs don’t have the same meaning

Editing wrong syntax is like retranslating the whole segment so the question is if one should really do that; the other aspects like using different grammar/spelling and skipped commas are annoying but in most cases not important to understand the meaning. In some cases a comma or missing comma changes the meaning.

I recently had a talk with a professional translator about AI translation software. He said that it depends on the given language how good/bad the software works, e.g. he said that Japanese + X usually is terrible and gives wrong meaning/sentences/syntax but English + Spanish/French usually gives a decent translation and English/Chinese is okay when it’s a simple topic/sentence while Chinese/Japanese or Korean + X is also terrible. So in his opinion English/Chinese was the most decent translation for Asian languages using AI software while Japanese and Korean + AI software is horrible.


#251

English-Chinese maybe, I wouldn’t know. But Chinese-English… The outlandish result of automatic translation is the reason of all the laughs we have by going to Engrish.com.
off-taste-diving-frog


#252

I just saw the mail about the auto sub preview thing and it turns out to be a group activity session or how to call it. Not sure if I will join because I thought it was something Viki would simply enable in my account so I could check it when I wanted…


#253

I’m really sorry that you had these experiences in the past. Unfortunately, we can’t do anything about other people. We can only work the best that we know how. People reap what they sow. Most people truly believe in what they are doing. It would be diagnosed as insanity to purposely do what we know is wrong and unethical. So that person actually believes what she is doing is fine. That’s her life and her choices. We don’t have to make the same choices or let it stress us out, especially for the sake of our health. :smiley:


#254

Thank you, and Amen to that. I did gave up on the whole drama a long while back, but sadly, she is not the only one doing that, there are a few more in that team that lower the quality of the Spanish subtitles in the dramas. I’m not necessarily picking on her; it’s just that she gave me the chance to prove me right.

Now, at least I won’t feel so bad about ‘‘bad spanish subs in dramas’’ bc I can blame a ‘‘machine/program/AI of doing that,’’ (although it is a human being behind all those mistakes) lol.


#255

I am curious. Have any tests with AI been done for the Italian for Yu Na’s Street?
The drama was abandoned by the Italian team four years ago,
I see some random literal translations in Italian here and there, on random episodes, supposedly by @jeslynl, done in August 2019. Like 10% of episode 19 when the previous ten episodes weren’t subbed. I am hesitant to believe that they were indeed made by you - I know that sometimes one sees Viki staff names when it’s normally the bot.
I have a screenshot but I won’t post it to respect personal privacy.


#256

Hey @irmar, I think you meant to tag me, correct? :sweat_smile:

I can verify that Italian auto translations have not been done on any videos prior. What you are seeing on Yoo Na’s Street was part of a recovery that the team had to do on the backend in 2019 (for a small issue completely unrelated to auto translations) and they were indeed attributed to my username.

So to answer your question, no such tests have been done for Italian previously. Hope this clarifies! :slight_smile:


#257

I am so happy to know at least that you weren’t the one behind those lousy translations.


#258

or special wordings in Austria :wink:

the same happens between Spanish in Spain or Mexico or Puerto Rico or French in France or Switzerland or even Canada, and the US English and UK English or perhaps Irish or even Australian and Portuguese too, lol

Also in regards of German teams, we try to be all in sync with one language which is the German from Germany and I have to use the hard ß instead of the Swiss double ss, even special expressions we need to look up in German dict. - There isn’t one size fits all and imagine even with changing keyboards and typing blindly the other characters :wink:

I think in general language skills have been more flawed, I can see it in newspapers or on websites, is it perhaps due to advancements in AI and technology in general?

I think in the end the majority of all volunteers try their best to make good subtitles for the viewers! As we know it consumes many hours to write them well, in particular the historical.


#259

Hi everyone, I’m Yu Siang, the Designer at Viki who’s working on this project. I’d like to answer some of the questions related to the design:

More details about the user acceptance survey
We conducted the survey on Spanish and Portuguese viewers, not volunteers. The reason was that early on, we wanted to test whether the auto-translated subs are good enough to consider this feature. We didn’t want to involve the community until we’ve tested that viewers would accept its quality.

Here’s an outline of the survey:

  • The viewer is asked to watch at least 7 mins of a video, which contains auto subs in their language.
  • After they’ve watched the video, we asked them whether they understood the video: Yes / No / Others. This is where we got the result that 80% (PT) and 85% (ES) viewers understood the subs.
  • We then informed the viewer that they’ve just watched a video with auto-translated subs, and explained what they are.
  • The viewer is asked to imagine that they’re watching a show without subs, would they: Watch with auto subs now / Wait a few days for volunteer subs / Watch without subs. This is where we got the result that ~50% of viewers would watch with auto subs.

More details about the design preview session
The auto sub design preview is a group session where we’ll share the design and gather feedback from participants. We can’t enable it in anyone’s account to preview/play around, because we haven’t built anything on Viki yet.

Hope this helps clarify! :slight_smile:
Yu Siang