How can I improve and attract more fans?
How can I improve to attract more fans?
How can I improve in order to attract more fans?
This one depends on the context of the previous sentences. If this is the current rescue team, then “Tell them to send reinforcements.” is fine left alone.
Left the way you wrote your sentence; these are all incomplete sentence in the sense the person wants to know what changes he/she needs to do in his/her job performance in order to attract more fans. There was no need to change it into what @worthyromance change it to, and you too since they are all incomplete sentence since you omitted an important part of the first sentence that connects the second part you wrote above.
Mirjam, I’m not gifted in other languages as you are. If a romance is available on Netflix, iQiyi or Viki, I watch it on Viki. I like that most Viki editors include all the signs which are relevant and they edit the pre-subs to make sense! I watched a romance on another platform when it first came out. The dating contract was not subbed so I had no idea it was a contract relationship, because the translated dialogue was below par! I very rarely watch dramas twice, but when I watched it on Viki, I understood things properly. What a joy!
I’m currently watching “Adventurous Romance” (12 episodes) on another platform, and I am confused by the subs to understand the plot, although I’m halfway through the drama. If it came to Viki, viewers would comment about the bad subs! Some of my Viki friends are willing to wait until all the subs are edited. But that may mean 6 weeks to 6 months depending on the CE.
When I watch a drama on Viki, I can usually tell at which episode the CE has finished editing, and when it’s still just pre-subs. There are some dramas where I get to the end and see all final team credits, yet half the subs still didn’t appear edited. I don’t go looking at the subtitle team to determine if I will watch a drama. Some editing teams produce a better job. ( I just had to be ironic with a tongue-in-cheek reference.)
The subs on Viki have the sweat and hard work of volunteers who go the second mile to create better subs. A GE remarked about a scene, after I edited it, that the emotional impact touched her. I edit for the viewers.
It’s directly from Merriam Webster Dictionary, which all English editors use. I should have added the link, but I know that other editors would see the MW links and understand it’s the dictionary. Job Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
I’m sorry you were unable to understand it’s from the dictionary.
I left out some words so viewers could fill in the holes themselves. The sentence might be incoherent out of context, but it’s not incomplete. The second one “How can I improve to attract more fans?” is grammatically incorrect. looks odd to me. I’m assuming the context of a workplace is already there.
How can I improve my performance and attract more fans?
The to do to do repetition was bothersome. Your brain might just skip over the second to do, then it makes little sense.
This is so funny I’ve been cracking up.
Anyway, I was working with what was offered in front of me by the viki staff sub, and it would have helped us more if we had the title and time of scene where the subtitle was written, but even then, we really need to know the original language the sentence came from in order to make a better assessment of the subtitle in question here. I still feel there was nothing wrong in the viki staff subtitle that merits the changes. I wish the CEO owners of this site would give us his opinion on this subject since is very important to maintain quality in the subtitles and it clearly needs more attention.
This sentence is also not grammatically incorrect in and of itself. It’s a full and complete sentence on its own. Just like all of your other suggestions are not actually incomplete sentences. That’s an incorrect analysis of them. It’s hard to make judgments about individual subtitles because they will always be taken out of context. There is no way for us to know if the relevant and necessary information can be found in preceding or subsequent segments.
I agree about the repetitive use of “to do to do” in @worthyromance’s original post. This would never be approved by an English teacher. That type of repetitiveness is something to be avoided in good writing, so that subtitle would need to be changed, regardless.
Also, my math might be wrong, but @worthyromance’s edited version actually has one less word than the original, even if it has more characters. Sometimes a word with more characters or even extra syllables fits better in the flow of the sentence, making it easier and faster to read and thus more desirable as a subtitle.
IMO, worthyromance is an excellent editor. I may not always agree with her choices, but I trust that she has the viewers’ best interests in mind when she makes edits. But now we’ve gotten way off track in this thread. It suddenly became a lesson in good editing. Oops. 
ilikedeadclowns
I left out some words so viewers could fill in the holes themselves.
I agree with @my_happy_place and @ilikedeadclowns . They are not actually an incomplete subtitle…
We just need to let the viewers become mind readers, and fill in the holes. I rest my case.
But you don’t know that for sure. Without knowing what was said before or after, you can’t tell if the audience is missing anything. That was one of the points I was trying to make. One sub on its own does not tell a whole story. I won’t judge it without knowing the rest of the context.
Edited to add: In the case of subtitles, we also have visual clues to draw from. Some things are easily inferred from what is happening onscreen.
I get you now. Both subtitles definitely have mistakes in them, but in my opinion and since I had no choice but to choose between those two; is why I added that I preferred the paid subber’s subtitle since it made more sense to me (never heard such thing as ‘‘produce a job’’). I don’t want to offend @worthyromance in any which way, shape or form, but as a Teacher she should have known that part in the sub she wrote; was wrong. We are in a way teaching those viewers who want to learn and improve their English (which is harder for some ppl.compared to others), and if we make mistakes like that one, we are doing no favor to those that come here to better themselves in the English language. Like I always say: No one here is perfect, but we must always strive to give the best we can give to the viewers, and that didn’t cut it for me.
I’m a person who aims for solutions. I thank everyone for their feedback, positive or negative. Here is the message I just sent to the team.
"This is how our English Team will work with everyone: As soon as the episode is segmented, the other language subbers are allowed to start translating off the pre-subs, as decided by Viki. I will also edit and format each episode to make work easier for everyone involved. Then our TEs will check each episode as soon as they can and fill in any blanks left. I will format their edits, and then the OL Mods can do final edit of the episode.
Depending if it’s my daytime in Canada, I will start each episode as soon as the segments have QC. I am giving this drama first priority! OL subbers can wait for my GE edit or proceed. But I ask OL Moderators to please wait on your final edit until after the TEs have checked the episode, and I have formatted their edits as CE.
This is our first time trying this exact method. We don’t want to pressure anyone, since we value all your volunteer contributions! I am willing to try this because our CM has kindly asked me to help. If this works for airing dramas, that is fine. If we find it’s too complicated for OL Teams, and you are unhappy about it, please let us and Viki know.
This is a Viki Original, and we don’t want to sacrifice quality for speed. Our English Team will do our best to prevent plot holes, inconsistencies, and provide correct edits with the proper emotional impact."
That is what I sent to the team. I pondered this because I know how much it will impact other CEs and English Teams. It really isn’t a precedent that I want to set! I’m a firm believer that rushing creates the likelihood of more mistakes.
I understand the dilemma of CMs who are now put in this unfair position by Viki. I supported one CM to tell Viki that we can release only four episodes per week for that airing drama, and the OL Teams wait for us.
I’m willing to try this new method one time, but it will take a toll on my energy. I don’t recommend it to other editors who care about the quality of their work.
If Viki chooses to phase out volunteers, using only paid subs, the quality of subs will decline to be like all other Asian drama websites. I will still struggle to understand the Asian drama subs, without decent editing, because I love the romance, settings, culture, actors and story lines. In that case, I would choose other Asian drama websites with mostly romances. The whole reason I am on Viki is for the quality of the subs.
Sorry I am late to this discussion, but I wanted to share my thoughts on this issue.
First, I thought a major reason why Viki has English Editing Teams is to make things easier for the OL Teams by providing subs that are free of grammar and spelling errors, formatted correctly, and contain translations that are correct, make sense, and flow well.
If OL Teams have to use the Pre-subs then it will be much more difficult for the OL Teams since they will need to deal with all of these issues and also have to back over the subs multiple times for editing process. OL Teams and OL viewers will have to deal with varying quality of subtitles.
The Reason for this Change by Viki:
So the solution for Viki is to release content to OL mods as soon as it is segmented. That way they do not have to wait and viewers get content in their languages that much sooner. Quality may suffer, but speed improves. (But does speed really improve if OL subbers are dealing with all of the difficult pre-subs issues?)
This new rule sounds like more stress on everybody who volunteers, which distresses me. I am also very troubled by the information shared here about Viki forbidding English language Editing Teams, Subtitlers, and even Segmenters on projects. I understand that Viki wants to get content out as soon as possible, but what Is the harm in letting English Editing Teams go through and edit the episodes/films after they are released? Viewers are not prevented from watching content as soon as possible. Why forbid volunteers from improving content?
If Viki allowed the formation of large Teams on these projects instead of 1 person, then episodes/films could be Edited and Released quickly. Many hands make light work. I do not understand why they are preventing people.
For sure, Viki has the reputation of having the highest quality subs of all platforms. This is entirely due to the Volunteers. Viki uses this reputation to market itself and gain subscribers. I do not understand why Viki wants to destroy that by not letting Volunteers at least work on episodes/films after they are released.
Do people care about the quality of the subtitles? Yes, they do. I have seen on other forums numerous complaints about the quality of the subs on various platforms. I have seen countless times the question " Are the subs good quality?" for a particular drama or film. I have also seen the statement “Viki has the best subs.” over and over again, as well as " I hope drama title X gets picked up by Viki so we can have good quality subs." If Viki loses that distinction, then why would viewers pay for Viki membership? They can watch the same quality for less money other places.
Right now, as an English-language viewer, I have the choice to watch content as soon as it is uploaded or to wait until it is edited. I choose to wait until the content is edited. So much Viki content these days comes not from Volunteer subbers but from outside providers. Many times I will wait until all episodes are edited so that I can just binge or watch everything at my own pace without having to worry if any episodes are unedited. That can sometimes mean me waiting many months before I watch a drama, which can be very frustrating, But that is my choice. I choose to wait for Edited content because it provides me with the best viewing experience when subs make sense, flow well, and are free of grammar and spelling errors.
If this new rule at Viki means that OL viewers have the same choice, then I can understand where Viki is coming from, even if I don’t fully agree with the decision. But if this rule means eliminating the English Editing Teams, or forbidding projects from having TE, GE, and CE members, or preventing Viki Volunteers as a whole from working on projects, then I do not support it al all.
Oh, I have been doing this for a while now.
For instance in Lovers of the Red Sky last summer.
It came pre-subbed. I dived in just after the segmenters to correct all the basic things such as repeat subs from flashbacks (I kept all the subs in our Google sheet for that purpose), italics, remove square brackets and cosmetic breaks, remove instances of “okay” and other modern slang as it was a historical (fantasy, but historical nonetheless), streamline uppercase/lowercase, people’s titles, in short all the things that don’t relate to meaning. And of course invert Korean word order. This was done very quickly, and the OL team had the understanding that they could start translating if they wished to, leaving the editing for later.
We did have a TE back then, and a good one too! At that time Viki didn’t dare suggest that we skip this very important person! So when she had finished her checking the meaning and filling in blanks, I went back again (because sometimes Korean TEs might introduce less than perfect English), but looking only at the parts she had changed (with CTRL+F and her name) and then our CE. I often went back once more after her, too, to spot any eventual typos or inconsistency with titles (we’re human, and things may slip through the net, a second set of eyes is always good).
The OL teams knew exactly how much of the editing was done before the final release, so it was their choice at what stage they wanted to start subbing.
Oh, in that particular drama, after release, Viki changed the videos and put others that had on-screen explanations. We had to go and add those (in most cases it was redundant, because it was already explained in the sub, or just repeated some person’s title). So everyone had to go yet another time through the whole thing. Ugh!
It was lucky that it was a good and interesting drama. Imagine having to do this for a boring and lame one! And it was even more lucky that the anonymous paid subber was an excellent one. Not only that, but she closely monitored Team Discussions, so whenever we decided a change, she immediately implemented it. I was really impressed because this is more than the average Ko-En volunteer subbers do (some do it, most don’t). Sadly, this wasn’t the case in many other projects, where the paid subbers constantly made childish mistakes and were much worse than our own volunteers.
I strongly disagree. I think editing is important on every part of the process.
What can go bad? The subber might have a bad day. The subber might not make the best subtitles in general and just slip through the Viki verification with luck. The subber might not have the knowledge of specific terms (medical, law, police, math, physics, historical). There might be more subbers working on a series, problems with that: the level of formality in speech might jump up and down, which doesn’t look good and contributes to the same problem with OL teams, the lyrics, on-screen repeating text and retrospections might change from part to part, every subber might translate them differently (and then OL mods are left with this mess to figure out, what was the true meaning).
Sometimes even after the final editing there are things, that could be changed for better.
Idk, maybe their community 
Could you tell me, what is the decision making process on Viki? I have no idea about it and would like to learn
I think this issue affect mainly less popular or even abandoned projects. I think the on air projects, that are mentioned, are going to get corrected relatively fast.
I have one project, that has been dead for a long while and I don’t know, if Viki even wants it finished XD
Me too, I think the difference is huge
I think it would be good to let editors in on a project before the drama gets released to the viewers. I know it means people who don’t need subtitles have to wait too, but since it’s already happening with Viki creating presubs on unuploaded videos, I think it could be fine…
Right on! 
What would you or anyone here gain from learning about it? It’s common sense that the investors and owners have all the rights to make whatever decision over ANYONE at this site, and is simply ridiculous all this complaining and anger displayed by many of you the moment any changes are made here. Unless you guys are getting paid and I don’t know about it; why are most people here acting like they are so offended and even betrayed by these changes?
One of the changes Viki Wants Releases Before English Editing
Let’s say that we do a survey, and we can collect enough data to confirm which of these 2 groups offers better quality subtitles: The RViki volunteers or the paid subbers. Is that survey going to make any difference in the changes the OWNERS/HIGHER UPS want to make at this site? Another thing, why so many in here have little regards/respect towards the owners of this site? Is it because you feel the owners at this site ‘‘owe you so much’’ that they have no right to change things as they want?
Whether the owners of this site want QUANTITY over QUALITY is none of our business bc is their business, and they need to to take care of it. After all, it’s their money.
WE don’t spend a penny here to keep this site running, and we do this volunteer work because we want to; we chose to become volunteers, and that’s all we are. If we all decide to leave, we can be easily replaced by adding more paid subbers or getting the videos already segged and subbed either by AI or whatever means; I don’t care how, when or why. I don’t own this site, and they don’t owe me anything since I chose to become a volunteer fully aware I wasn’t going to get paid for it.
Like I always say, we have some excellent volunteers and we have some excellent paid subbers. BUT we are all expendables, and as such face the reality that you can complain here until you get blue in the face, but we have no saying when it comes to decision making from the higher ups/ OWNERS of this place. The problem here is that some are assuming all these changes are been done by other ‘‘rival’’ team members, but let me refresh your memory that the paid subbers are getting paid by Rviki company and not by the Spanish or Portuguese teams that right now hold the first place at this site (so far).
If anyone here feel their QUALITY work is so awesome and perfect; why not make a living from it, and get paid for the wonderful work done by each one of you in here? Has anyone thought that maybe the owners already knows who gives quality work in here and who doesn’t? Have you ever thought that they did research and realized what’s worth holding on to and what’s not? It’s all about PROFIT$, and no matter how good we may feel we are in one, two or several language, it doesn’t mean anything, if we don’t bring in the money.
Knowledge? Ability to underastnd the process and changes better?
No, it’s not a common sense. They do have the ability, but do you know, if they actually do make those decisions?
Do we not get the chance to discuss the changes? Are we forced to like them?
Because they choose to help for free and Viki doesn’t care about them or their opinions?
Viki’s base is the volunteers work and the community spirit. I really like that and I think most of people here like it too. It’s nice to have a legal place, where you can add subtitles and help others access good subtitles. Most people here care about it. Most people care about the community, about the quality of the subtitles. If there are changes, that they percieve as bad, they will try to object to protect the good things, that were created here.
Terrible take imo. It’s also not your bussiness, that your neighbour’s house is on fire, but you still should call him to let him know.
Who said anything like that?
My unchecked report of an abuser from more then 1,5 years beggs to differ XDD
Until all you people let go of the psychological attachment you have with viki like it’s your best friend that has betrayed you, that doesn’t care about you or your opinions, you won’t accept the changes that will happen here, whether we discuss or argue about it with them bc at this point and in my opinion; nothing anyone say here will ever make them go back to what it was before, and me personally, I’m ecstatically very happy about that because it
will eliminate the control groups we have here once and for all.
.
zyxw
Terrible take imo. It’s also not your bussiness, that your neighbour’s house is on fire, but you still should call him to let him know.
Terrible indeed when you dared to make such a comparison. A human life can never be replaced, and that has no logical comparison since it’s everybody’s business to preserve and protect that life; since no money in this world can give us that life back.
Actually, part of the changes they make are a direct result of things we say right here on Discussions. The new moderator rule, for example…